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Cycling dry rock


Nstocks

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I run mine in FW RODI for 2-3 weeks, then cycle in a bucket of SW with some rubbles from the main tank. Aim for the higher temp if you can to speed thigns up.

 

I thinkI'll do the same. How often did you perform water changes and how high did you set the temp?

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Swing2Harmony

That really depends on how dirty your rock is. The window is about couple of days to a week when in FW. In SW you can go by nitrate levels. I never let mine go above 10.

 

27C (80f) should be a good temp for cycling.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update

 

It's been two weeks since I put the dry rock in heated (27C) RODI water with two powerheads and two water pumps. I've been testing the water every third day with no changes in the chemistry of the water.

 

Ammonia: Between 0.5 and 1.0 (salifert)

Phosphate: Between 0.25 and 0.5 (salifert)

 

​I changed the water every day for the first 4 days, then once again in the past week (100%). From here, should I continue performing the water changes and/or add something else?

 

I have a bottle of Dr. Tim's one and only that I was planning on using when I set the tank up in 1-2 weeks. Would it be beneficial to replace the water with saltwater and add the bacteria now with a drop of ammonia depending on parameters again after changing to saltwater when I'll also test for nitrite and nitrate?

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Out of curiosity, I've just performed a nitrate test showing nitrates of less than 10 and nitrates of around 5 with the higher accuracy "low range" test with Salifert. This is using FW so tests may be slightly different in SW.

 

At this point would it be a good idea to switch to saltwater and test again in a few days before adding Dr Tim's one and only? (ammonia dosing probably needed)

 

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As I said, probably benign for dry rock, but I am not smart enough to know for sure so I don't boil any marine rock: wet, dry or other.

 

This is why:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/personal-experiences-with-palytoxin-poisoning-almost-killed-myself-wife-and-dogs

I remember that post! A little late but it should be noted that while he makes it seem like his activities in boiling the live rock was the cause of his issues it was never proven to be the cause. No tests were performed and he didn't give a full detail of the activities leading up to the point where their symptoms appeared. I think it was only put out there because at times a lot of buzz pops up around about palytoxins and the guy worked for advanced aquarist.

 

Anyways, back to your topic... What are you trying to accomplish at this point?

 

I'm confused as to why you're still messing around with letting the rocks sit in freshwater and doing a bunch of water changes.

 

1) Curing, as typically defined by this hobby, means to let all dead organic matter on a rock fully and completely decompose. To completely cure rock can take quite some time, depending on the kind of rock. Sometimes people have high phosphates for some time when starting a tank and say that "their rocks are leeching phosphates". This is because the rocks aren't completely cured yet - there are still bits of decaying organic matter deep inside the rocks in small holes, crevices, and even the pores of the rock.

 

2) Ammonia is one of the byproducts of organic decomposition (there are other byproducts, which are sometimes referred to simply as "nutrients" like phosphates and nitrates). The process of decomposition is primarily bacterial, but not the same bacteria we need to cycle a tank. Decay is a slow, stinky process which is why some people use pure ammonia. It's cleaner and faster than waiting for a shrimp or fish food to decompose though you have to dose consistently for it to work. It also prevents you from adding excess phosphates to the tank (most frozen, freeze fried, and even some fresh foods contain phosphates). The bacteria that are responsible for this are literally everywhere.

 

3) Cycling, as typically defined by this hobby, means to populate the rock with all the bacteria necessary to convert the waste produced in the tank like poop, excess from feeding, etc...(the same things that through decomposition produce ammonia) into less harmful substances in order to make the tank habitable to fish and other livestock. This can also be called establishing the biological filter. Note that the process works the same way on land or in water or in saltwater, however, the bacteria responsible for the processes are different for each environment. In other words, you cant take a rock from freshwater then put it in saltwater and expect it to act as a biological filter from the get go. The bacteria that are responsible for this process are literally everywhere, but less concentrated than the ones mentioned in #2 (the heterotrophs). Bacteria are also beneficial because in large numbers they can effectively consume other nutrients such as phosphates.

 

So, based on these definitions your first goal may be to cure the rock... As long as the rock remains not fully cured it will continue to decay and leech "nutrients" into the water fueling algae growth. A phosphate test is sometimes used to determine if rock is cured.

 

Next, you may need to cycle the rock. Hopefully it's apparent that you should cycle the rock in the same environment that the rock will be used in. The rock will cycle on it's own - as you've seen. Where there is a need the bacteria will find it.

 

The main issue people have with cycling rock is knowing when the biological filter is ready to support tank inhabitants.

 

It seems that the general consensus is still "wait 4 to 6 weeks and then it's ready". But what needs to happen? Let's use an example. You put some rock into a tank with some saltwater. At the very least the decaying dust in the rock is going to attract the proper bacteria. But because the "food supply" is so sparse there are only a few bacteria. So how do we increase the bacterial population?

 

If you think about it all we need to do is keep the nutrients in the tank high, right? With lots of ammonia the bacterial populations will flourish so that when you're ready to add livestock (and all the poop, excess feeding, and other waste that accompanies livestock) there's plenty of bacteria to process it. If there's not enough bacteria you get a spike in ammonia, which = bad.

 

Anyways, put the rock into saltwater (so the right bacteria can start colonizing it), stop doing water changes (water changes remove nutrients thus inhibiting your bacterial populations from growing). Using the bacterial starter speeds things up - Instead of waiting for the bacteria to increase in numbers (google "cell division") you can add a lot of beneficial bacteria instantly. A lot of people use these starter bottles so they can add fish very quickly. In your case I would just make sure that the majority of dead stuff has broken down before starting to add fish, corals, or other inverts. If you start the tank before the rock has cured sufficiently (dead stuff decomposed) then you could experience a lot of nuisance algae and it could be very difficult to get rid of. Moving toward the ultimate goal of putting fish and corals into this tank that's pretty much the direction you need to go. Hopefully that makes sense...

 

Here's a potato

tumblr_n8zuz1oQkz1rjqc61o2_500.gif

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Thanks for the informative post - I've already read up on this and understand the basics of the nitrogen cycle. The reason for leaving the rock in FW is to "cure" it without wasting any salt as the dead organics will decompose without salt anyway. I've picked off the last of the decaying matter that I can see, though I'm sure there is more in there.

 

I'm going to begin the "cycle" (I know it's ongoing) in the brute bucket as my tank won't be set up for at least two weeks. I'm using One and Only nitrifying bacteria so I'll follow those instructions, testing ammonia frequently and dosing to keep the bacteria growing.

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  • 1 month later...

The cycle was complete a couple of weeks ago and I will be setting up my tank shortly :)

 

Thought the past 8 weeks the rocks have been in 80litres of water that hasn't been changed, just topped up. Would it be a bad idea to keep all of this water, along with 150L or 'new' saltwater, which is essentially like a 60% water change? OR should I dispose of the water used during the initial cycle?

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The cycle was complete a couple of weeks ago and I will be setting up my tank shortly :)

 

Thought the past 8 weeks the rocks have been in 80litres of water that hasn't been changed, just topped up. Would it be a bad idea to keep all of this water, along with 150L or 'new' saltwater, which is essentially like a 60% water change? OR should I dispose of the water used during the initial cycle?

 

Glad to hear things are still moving :)

 

My guess is that since your rock was relatively "dirty" that the biological filter has been built up sufficiently to allow a quick addition of livestock. ? You can either chance it and start stocking which IMO is probably just fine, or especially if you want to add several fish at once you could perform a simple test to verify that you have a strong bio-filter.

 

To perform the test, add 1.25mL of ammonia for every 10 gallons. Measure the readings a little after adding (should be about 3ppm), then again in 24 hours and this will tell you how well the biological filter is working. If the next day there is no ammonia then you're good to go ! Pure ammonia is usually found at dollar stores or if you have like an ACE hardware nearby. Just make sure it doesn't have additional ingredients or a scent.

 

Alternatively just add some Dr. Tims or whatever bacterial starter per the instructions if you have any concerns. It's a whole lot better to take precautions and err on the safe side than add a bunch of fish and they all die or you at least have a mess on your hands due to preventable issues.

 

I mean it's perfectly fine to stock slowly though also, in which case you don't need to be nearly as concerned. But on the flip side it's also kind of fun to add all your fish at the same time, which I did for the first time this last build and I'm happy how it turned out.

 

Good luck!

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Glad to hear things are still moving :)

 

My guess is that since your rock was relatively "dirty" that the biological filter has been built up sufficiently to allow a quick addition of livestock. ? You can either chance it and start stocking which IMO is probably just fine, or especially if you want to add several fish at once you could perform a simple test to verify that you have a strong bio-filter.

 

To perform the test, add 1.25mL of ammonia for every 10 gallons. Measure the readings a little after adding (should be about 3ppm), then again in 24 hours and this will tell you how well the biological filter is working. If the next day there is no ammonia then you're good to go ! Pure ammonia is usually found at dollar stores or if you have like an ACE hardware nearby. Just make sure it doesn't have additional ingredients or a scent.

 

Alternatively just add some Dr. Tims or whatever bacterial starter per the instructions if you have any concerns. It's a whole lot better to take precautions and err on the safe side than add a bunch of fish and they all die or you at least have a mess on your hands due to preventable issues.

 

I mean it's perfectly fine to stock slowly though also, in which case you don't need to be nearly as concerned. But on the flip side it's also kind of fun to add all your fish at the same time, which I did for the first time this last build and I'm happy how it turned out.

 

Good luck!

 

I've been dosing ammonia at 3ppm for the first few weeks and I've been testing ammonia, nitrite and recently nitrate.

 

After 4 weeks of dosing ammonia (and adding Dr. Tims One and Only) the ammonia was zero. I added more ammonia everyday other day for a week and tested it. It took less than 24 hours to process the ammonia and as through delays in the tank build, I continued dosing ammonia twice per week, just to keep the bacteria happy (a debate wether this is needed or not but it's worked for me).

 

Nitrates are around 25 which isn't too bad considering zero water changes and zero skimming.

 

Would there be any point in keeping the water used to cycle the rocks (which has a slight yellow tint) or should I go with 100% 'new' water?

 

I'm going to my LFS sometime this week to buy shrimp and snails. I was going to hold off adding fish but if they have a nice pair of black and white clownfish I'm going to buy them :).

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I've been dosing ammonia at 3ppm for the first few weeks and I've been testing ammonia, nitrite and recently nitrate.

 

After 4 weeks of dosing ammonia (and adding Dr. Tims One and Only) the ammonia was zero. I added more ammonia everyday other day for a week and tested it. It took less than 24 hours to process the ammonia and as through delays in the tank build, I continued dosing ammonia twice per week, just to keep the bacteria happy (a debate wether this is needed or not but it's worked for me).

 

Nitrates are around 25 which isn't too bad considering zero water changes and zero skimming.

 

Would there be any point in keeping the water used to cycle the rocks (which has a slight yellow tint) or should I go with 100% 'new' water?

 

I'm going to my LFS sometime this week to buy shrimp and snails. I was going to hold off adding fish but if they have a nice pair of black and white clownfish I'm going to buy them :).

 

Oh wow, okay you're fine then...

 

IMO there's nothing necessarily wrong with re-using the water. When I started my last tank I filled it up, put my dry pukani rock in there and cured/cycled all at once - took about 8 weeks for me, I probably could have stocked sooner but I wasn't in a hurry - helped me save up more for fish. My rock was particularly dirty though. It was literally plunked from the water, dried out, and then I got it. There were dead crabs and starfish in it, dried seaweed, and all sorts of junk even after I cleaned it. I think I did like a 30-40% water change and 10% weekly after that.

 

Most people will recommend a 100% water change but I don't see any biologically significant reason to do that. Up to this point some of your trace minerals may have diminished for whatever reason, obviously nitrates have built up a bit, but other than that it's just regular water. Nothing toxic or whatever leeched from the rocks (if it did you would probably still be in trouble after a 100% water change). IMO a water change of some % would be good to reduce those nitrates a little and clear up the water but it's not like it's unsafe for the inhabitants.

 

Good luck with the LFS this week, IME you should be fine to add whatever is reasonable for your size tank.

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  • 4 weeks later...
ender wiggin

Thanks for this topic. =) Lots of good advice, discussion and experiences. I definitely feel better about starting curing my dry rock!

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