Arkayology Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have had the Apex DOS for about a month now. I purchased it from Marine Depot and it arrived quickly and was packaged well (I only live 3 hours from their warehouse). The DOS comes with the dosing unit, special large-diameter tubing to use with the unit, a graduated cylinder to measure the dosing, and the power cord. The unit feels heavy and well made, though it sounds like there is a lot of room in the unit itself has a bit of empty space in it. It must be to accommodate the stepper pumps because the unit itself is a bit larger than I had anticipated. I guess the size really doesn't matter too much though The DOS has two small punch-out holes on the back to attach it to the wall. They were easy enough to take out and I mounted it on the inside of my stand. One feature I really like that made attaching the tubing, and future maintenance, easy is the fact that the orange plastic pump head easily detaches from the doser. The DOS can be set up to dose pretty much anything you want with the smallest amount dosed at .01ml at one time. You calibrate the pump using the Apex controller by having it dose 40ml of fluid over the course of 180 seconds (IIRC) and then tell the unit exactly how much was dosed using the graduated cylinder. If it is higher or lower you enter that in on the Apex display and the pump is now calibrated. Playing around with the manual dosing button on the front of the unit, I was a little surprised at the noise the doser makes when it is working. It is definitely audible even in a room with a fish tank. If you have a quite tank you will hear it working for sure. It isn't that big of a deal because I actually like to know it is turning on, but you will hear it. Another thing about the noise is when you are manually dosing using the dosing button, or when you are having it move solution over an extended period of time as if you were doing water change, the orange plastic cover I mentioned before makes a little "creaking" noise as the stepper motor moves around. This sound is not extremely noticeable with the pump in the stand, but then again I am just setting it up to dose 2-part and it is not on for more than a couple seconds so I don't really hear it. This is something to be aware of if you are going to use it for a few minutes or longer and it is in a place where you don't want noise. The wizard is set up to allow you to do quickly and easily program two things: 1) dose solution based on a schedule you create over a given period of time using a graph, and 2) do a water change. I have the DOS set to add 2-part. I have the wizard programmed to dose 19ml of each 2-part over the course of an entire day. The actual programming of the DOS using the setup wizard is the only area that I ran into some issues. What it should do is calculate what it needs to dose hourly to make sure that this dose is spread out evenly throughout the day. What it actually does it dose .6ml/hr for 23hr (=13.8ml) and then in the last hr dump 5.2ml (=19ml/day). This initially caused a lot of issues for me and my DkH was swinging all over the place due to a lot of the solution being added at 11:59pm. What I ended up doing to fix the situation is instead asking the wizard to dose X amount per 24hr period, I programmed it to dose X amount every hour of the day thereby eliminating the "large dose at the end of the program period." This has fixed the problem for now. It really isn't a huge issue but I would think that the wizard is not working as it should be, or at least it isn't for me. I'm not sure if others are having the same issue with more of the solution set to be dosed being added at the end of the cycle rather than evenly distributed throughout the dosing period; it could just be me. I have contacted Neptune Systems about this issue and I haven't heard back from them so I am not sure if it is an actual bug in the software or if it is user (my) error. Overall, I am extremely pleased with my Apex DOS. It is a little pricey, but I feel that the quality and integration into my Apex controller is more than worth the money I spent. I would recommend this to anyone who feels they need a quality doser that will last years and dose a little, or a lot, accurately on set intervals. Feel free to post questions here or PM me. -Ark Link to comment
Dramad1 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Weird question here, Can the dos system be mounted horizontally instead of vertically like to have in the picture? Or is this not recomended? Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Weird question here, Can the dos system be mounted horizontally instead of vertically like to have in the picture? Or is this not recomended? I don't see why it would matter. I'm sure you could rotate it and it would be fine. Link to comment
StrainedSky Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Did Neptune ever get back to you ? Mine is on the way, can't wait to try it out. Link to comment
picoreef78 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I just bought it. So far I have not needed to actually dose buffer or Calcium, waiting for rapid consumption. Link to comment
Admonition Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have heard of other people saying they had the same issues when dosing over 24 hour period with it dumping a large amount on the last hour. I'm curious to see what Neptune's response to you is. Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Did Neptune ever get back to you ? Mine is on the way, can't wait to try it out. I have heard of other people saying they had the same issues when dosing over 24 hour period with it dumping a large amount on the last hour. I'm curious to see what Neptune's response to you is. I have not heard back from Neptune on this, but to be fair i never opened a ticket with them. I figured if I posted on their forums it would get the ball rolling. Link to comment
Admonition Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ah, submit a ticket The forum is where other customers respond with answers, Neptune employees don't. Link to comment
sangheili Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I like these units but I just can't get over the insane pricing. $700 for 4 pump heads is insane. I know I keep talking about it, but my Pacific Sun unit has 5 heads, a built in ATO pump, temp sensor, tube holder, extra tubing, and an included bluetooth controller for around $450. Neptune needs to price these around $200 not $350. Curious, can you see what the smallest dose is you can do? I know with my unit I can get down to 1/4th of a drop (4 doses = one drop leaving the tube) and i'm curious if the DOS can do similar with the fancy stepper motors. Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 I like these units but I just can't get over the insane pricing. $700 for 4 pump heads is insane. I know I keep talking about it, but my Pacific Sun unit has 5 heads, a built in ATO pump, temp sensor, tube holder, extra tubing, and an included bluetooth controller for around $450. Neptune needs to price these around $200 not $350. While I agree that it is a little steep in price for two pump heads, I really don't mind because of the accuracy and easy of use. IMO the Pacific Sun Kore doser has all those things, but lets look at it really quickly. ATO (DOS can do can that), temp sensor (Apex already has that), tuber holder (most people already have one), extra tubing (DOS comes with tubing), and bluetooth controller (DOS hooks up to Apex which can be controlled via fusion). Honestly, the only advantage that the Kore has over the DOS (IMO) is 3 more pump heads which will likely need to be replaced after a couple years of use whereas the DOS motors are rated for longer. The Kore doser is a nice piece of tech though. You will be fine with either unit TBH. Curious, can you see what the smallest dose is you can do? I know with my unit I can get down to 1/4th of a drop (4 doses = one drop leaving the tube) and i'm curious if the DOS can do similar with the fancy stepper motors. 1/4 of a drop is not really that accurate The smallest amount you can dose with the DOS is .1ml at a time, and I can say it is accurate with such a small amount. Ah, submit a ticket The forum is where other customers respond with answers, Neptune employees don't. I actually got Terrence to respond and he said my thread would be updated when there was a fix. Still waiting. Maybe I will submit a ticket anyways. Link to comment
sangheili Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 While I agree that it is a little steep in price for two pump heads, I really don't mind because of the accuracy and easy of use. IMO the Pacific Sun Kore doser has all those things, but lets look at it really quickly. ATO (DOS can do can that), temp sensor (Apex already has that), tuber holder (most people already have one), extra tubing (DOS comes with tubing), and bluetooth controller (DOS hooks up to Apex which can be controlled via fusion). Honestly, the only advantage that the Kore has over the DOS (IMO) is 3 more pump heads which will likely need to be replaced after a couple years of use whereas the DOS motors are rated for longer. The Kore doser is a nice piece of tech though. You will be fine with either unit TBH. Not looking to derail the thread but its worth noting that if you had to purchase from scratch an Apex DOS setup to do all that the Kore 5th does out of the box for $450, your going to spend at least $1350. While the stepper motors are nice I honestly don't buy the marketing pitch since the rated lifetime is much lower then people realize. My Kore 5th can dose 1/10th smaller doses and has extremely repeatable accuracy. I'm not trying to sell the Pac Sun unit as it does have some annoyances, but the real annoyance to me is Neptune's pricing. I would much prefer to have dosing pumps that are controlled/run by my Apex but it's not worth 3x the price to me. Neptune is making a killing on their "addons" to the Apex system. What the reefing community really needs is for a real competitor to the Apex to show its face and drive down the pricing of these systems. Selling $60 worth of stepper pumps for $350 is pretty crazy even considering R&D investment costs and tooling. /endrant Here's a video of the Kore 5th dosing 0.01ml: https://vimeo.com/104308592 Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Not looking to derail the thread but its worth noting that if you had to purchase from scratch an Apex DOS setup to do all that the Kore 5th does out of the box for $450, your going to spend at least $1350. While the stepper motors are nice I honestly don't buy the marketing pitch since the rated lifetime is much lower then people realize. My Kore 5th can dose 1/10th smaller doses and has extremely repeatable accuracy. I'm not trying to sell the Pac Sun unit as it does have some annoyances, but the real annoyance to me is Neptune's pricing. I would much prefer to have dosing pumps that are controlled/run by my Apex but it's not worth 3x the price to me. Neptune is making a killing on their "addons" to the Apex system. What the reefing community really needs is for a real competitor to the Apex to show its face and drive down the pricing of these systems. Selling $60 worth of stepper pumps for $350 is pretty crazy even considering R&D investment costs and tooling. /endrant Here's a video of the Kore 5th dosing 0.01ml: https://vimeo.com/104308592 I'm not actually here to debate anything TBH. I did mention both are good units. I think it would be best if we keep this Apex DOS focused. Link to comment
sangheili Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I'm not actually here to debate anything TBH. I did mention both are good units. I think it would be best if we keep this Apex DOS focused. Agreed! Please keep the thread updated way way down the line in the future. I am curious about the usable life of the steppers vs normal drive units. Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ive been wondering why it does that last dose like that also Untitled by ryan.saalman, on Flickr Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ive been wondering why it does that last dose like that also Untitled by ryan.saalman, on Flickr Mine is the same way. It's some kind of bug I guess. Did you report it? Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Not yet but I will. I also have a pump Thats bad. Anything over 20 seconds and the red light comes on and it has to sit for 5 minutes and then starts back up. Found out during the calibration process Link to comment
NYfishies Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 That's bizarre... Mine doses equal amounts. Hope you guys get it fixed! Anybody have idea when they will release the DDR and additional tubing? Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Submitted my claim after testing my levels today and finding that my KH which is being dosed by the bad pump has dropped significantly. The Ca handled by the other side is fine. Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 FYI, I hate Neptune support. Stupid messaging/email system sucks. Don't even try calling. You would figure a company that sells such expensive products would have a better system. I don't want to send a message and wait an hour for a response. Or get asked a question I clearly addressed in a prior message. As much as I spent on this and for as long as I waited to get it I expected more!! Rant over. Link to comment
Arkayology Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 I finally got around to submitting a ticket to Neptune today. I'll keep you updated on what happens. Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Prepare for two days of emailing back and forth. They have the worst setup for customer service. It takes like 3 hours to get a response from them. Link to comment
Admonition Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 FYI, I hate Neptune support. Stupid messaging/email system sucks. Don't even try calling. You would figure a company that sells such expensive products would have a better system. I don't want to send a message and wait an hour for a response. Or get asked a question I clearly addressed in a prior message. As much as I spent on this and for as long as I waited to get it I expected more!! Rant over. I've said that from day one, awesome product, horrible tech support system. I spent two WHOLE days doing back and forth messaging with them once on my days off from work. I feel your pain. Link to comment
Steensj2004 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hey Ark, curious about this dosing system. At the price point, it is it worth the cost over say, a Bubble Mangus doser? Its 50.00 more for a dual dosing pump when compared to a quad pump. Just curious. Thanks for the review! Link to comment
Sully375 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I know you didn't ask me but if you get an operational system and you already have an Apex controlling everything else I would say yes. It really is nice to have everything incorporated. Honestly I would call Bubble Mangus or whoever owns that product and see how long it takes to get an actual customer service rep on the line. My last question from Apex was 18 hours ago, I responded 17 hours ago and still haven't heard anything back and they still haven't agreed to make thing right. In the mean time my KH level have gone from 9.6 to 6.7 so I will now have to manually dose to get things back to where they belong. Or just hook my BRS pup back up Link to comment
StrainedSky Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not making me feel confident in my purchase Hope it gets resolved for you guys. Link to comment
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