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HELP! Fish are dying emergency!


Haberdashery

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12 gallon, nano cube, 40x40x40cm

 

Stock:

2 Hermits

3 snails (now dead)

2 clownfish (1 now dead)

1 blood shrimp (now dead)

 

I started setting up my tank at Christmas, I added fish about a week/two weeks ago. I woke up this morning to find my blood shrimp dead a few days after he molted. He didn't eat his moult. He must have polluted the tank because my two clownfish weren't looking so great they weren't swimming right and one of them was turning white and sinking to the bottom. I took all the dead things out and done a huge water change waited 10 min and done another water change. One of my Clownfish has died though and my 3 snails have died. I think the remaining fish is suffering with burnt gills from the ammonia. After I changed the water he seemed better and he seemed to recover a bit but after a bit he was back gasping at the surface. i changed the water again and he was fine for a bit and then the same again. I keep testing the water and the ammonia doesnt seem to be going down? I done two 50% water changed this morning and a 30% one this afternoon. I have no water left to do a water change again. All my livestock is accounted for theres nothing dead in the tank. I don't know whats going on. I think im going to lose this fish too. If he does die what should i do to the tank? I noticed this morning there was a lot lot more stuff crawling around the rocks and sand weird long white worms and tiny shrimp looking things, is this somethting to do with whats happening? are they causing my tank to go crazy? If my fish dies should I let it recycle? I still have two scarlett hermits in the tank that are living.

After the water changed i moved my pump into the front of the tank to give more surface movement and try and get more oxygen in. i put the lights out for a bit. The clownfish had a white lip before all this happened, i dont know if thats due to digging in the sand as a lot of forums have said or if its a disease or ich. i seen something about clownfish disease? I diluted my tank a little to put the salinity down to about 1.202 to see if it would help. the temperature is fine. I don't know what im supposed to do, they were completely fine yesterday :(

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Boy, sounds like you didn't have a proper cycle and overstocked your tank too fast. Can you get the remaining fish to the LFS for them to hold for you?

 

Did you test any water parameters? What is your ammonia level? Also, 1.202 is a typo, right?

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You need to take all of the livestock back to the fish store, especially the clown. They will not survive in that tank. You did not cycle the tank before adding fish. You need to buy some books on marine aquariums and study the subject in depth before you proceed.

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Unfortunately it seems like the clownfish became your cycling fish. If you can take it to the LFS or a friend to hold for you then maybe it can survive. If not, well, let the tank get back to zero ammonia before adding anything.

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I honestly didn't know much about cycling and testing if it were cycled. It was only after adding live stock I seen people saying about adding bits of shrmip to make sure its cycled and stuff. I just waited about 4 weeks and my LFS told me it was fine to add fish. I added the shrimp snails and crabs after about 2 weeks and 2 weeks later added the fish. The nearest store is closed on a sunday and the next nearest is about 10 miles away and I have no transport :(

 

I tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph

ammonia was about 0.25

nitrites were zero and nitrate was zero

ph is 8.0

 

I feel really stupid for messing up like this. I've been researching since august aswell i dunno how i missed the whole point of cycling. urgh

 

 

I meant 1.022 for salinity I usually had it at 1.025

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How did you cycle the tank? What kind of water do you use? How big is your tank? What is your ammonia level?

 

Doesn't sound good, clowns carry brookynella and ich most of the time, and when stressed it breaks out, brook happens fast. Sorry to say, but I don't think it will make it. You can try to set up a hospital tank, but it sounds like it's too late. Btw, my shrimp never eat their moult.

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I had been wanting the tank for a while and had been researching since about july ish a store opened near by with marine fish which made me actually get the tank but has now closed down. i didnt just jump into a pet store and decide on the spot i wanted clownfish. No one i know has marine fish either so i cant give them to anyone.


The store i got my clownfish from had them housed with a large damsel fish that was attacking them all. they were covered in black spots that i looked up and i think are from stress. I cycled the tank by filling it was salt r/o water i bought from the store and 9kg of live sand and 10kg of live rock. i left it to cycle with the filter on for 3 weeks the tank is 12 gallons. the ammonia was at 0.25 ppm


Yeah I think it was the combination of stress from them being at the store and the fact I didnt cycle properly like an idiot, i thought i did but ive clearly been proved wrong and them the shrimp dying. i think he had a bad moult? do calcium levels affect their moulting? cause i didnt think about that when i bought him, i honestly didnt even know they moulted. maybe the calcium was too low and after he moulted he couldnt strengthen his coat after he moulted he was very skittish and never came out of his hole


I don't have a spare tank to set up a QT I was going to buy one yesterday when I was out getting water but i was like "nahhh my fish are fine." Such regret. the fact the ammonia levels arent going down after so many water changes is really confusing me the only thing in the tank is a hermit crab moult that he didnt eat either but its in an awkward to get to place so i couldnt get it out there are tonnes of things on my live rock right now. white worm things, weird little shrimp things, things that look like tiny maggots crawling about. ive never seen them before today

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reefernanoman

I can't believe that a LFS would just tell you "yeah it's fine" without testing for anything! I would NEVER go back there again. Just learn from this mistake and do your research so that you don't have unnecessary deaths like this.

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All the forums I read said they all do thats why I left it in the tank :/

I felt like I was doing everything right aswell. :(

I've been on a lottt of forums before trying to ask questions but I never heard anything back or the page said I wasn't able to post this is the first site ive been able to post on and get replies. Can someone tell me the best steps from here if the fish dies which i think he will. What will I do with the crabs? How do i PROPERLY cycle a tank?


yeah, when i went to the store it seemed like they were interested in selling me stuff. They told me I could get two clownfish and "4 other small fish" for my 12 gallon tank. thats having a laugh it's barely big enough for two clowns and when they got bigger i was planning on getting a bigger tank. theres no way in hell its big enough for 6 fish.

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"Shrimp things" are Amphipods and good eating for the fishes. Worms and maggots will need a picture for and ID. These characters will generally hide in the rock during the daytime.

 

Hit us with any parameters you can test for, and pics of the tank for best results in emergency situations.

 

 

Best advice is patience at this point... and parameter watching

 

 

 

 

 

 

Annd

:welcome:

 

To Nano-reef... Stick around, we'll help you thru this

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Theres only 2 stores within a reasonable distance to me. the one i got the fish from had them in with a damsel. even i know you cant do that. it was a tiny tank with about 10 baby clowns and a big damsel a lot of the fish had injuries, and the place i got all the rest of my stuff just tried to push stuff on me recommending fish definately not suited for a small 12 gallon

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http://oi60.tinypic.com/1o0hh0.jpg

 

These are the weird things i seen, the red is the maggot looking things and the blue is a worm thing


http://oi57.tinypic.com/23jlahd.jpg

Excuse all the water marks on the outside of the tank Ive been in and out the tank all day

This is her lip, it appeared the other day but she was acting completely fine so i was just keepign an eye on it. i think its gotten a bit worse? its more noticeable than it was

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Just tested the water again the ph has changed to between 7.4 and 7.8??? Whats the all about. I have ph buffer 8.2 should i add some?

Ammonia is down at inbetween 0 and 0.25 its a lil too dark for 0 but its still yellow so id say close to 0 than 0.25

nitrites still 0 nitrate still 0

fish is still gasping at the top. turned the filter off cause its just pushing her around


Also, thanks for the welcome! hopefully with your help i'll be able to successfully have a saltwater tank

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Nano reef is pretty friendly and we try to help a lot. You don't need a new tank for a hospital, I've used a 5 gallon bucket before. I piece of pvc pipe for the little guy to hide and a pump and/or an air pump. I do one gallon water changes every 2-3 days. Can't really tell what your clown has, but I like prazipro for about everything but protozoan(ich stuff) and for that I use seachem cupramine.

 

I would suggest starting over. Take all your live stick back, and ditch the rock and sand. Start with new rock and sand. Maybe jump start your cycle with some Dr. Tims one and only, microbact 7, or biospira. Give the bacteria something to feed on, like a piece of shrimp or just add ammonia yourself. I wouldn't even test till a week or so, then see where u are in the cycle. You should be able to process .25 ammonia overnight.

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The little white things should not be of any concern. It's hard to tell but they are either Flatworms (one of the good kind) or Nudibranchs (the algea eating type) They probably came out due to the ammonia spike but will not be harmful to the tank.

 

The fish however has a mouth fungus... Which is actually a bacterial problem. :rolleyes: If he is eating, there are antibacterial medications you can infuse the food with. There are also water additives, but you'll want to use them in a QT. If the store that sold them to you is still open, you should take him back and tell them they suck.

 

Imma take a stab in the dark and guess that you're using API's ammonia test kit? These have been known to been inaccurate. If you're at the LFS you might have them do a full test suite in order to double check everything.

 

I think you mentioned it before but makes sure there is lots of surface agitation for oxygen exchange

 

 

NO need to start over tho. The rock/ sand are still good

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I don't really fancy chucking everything considering the rock was £120 and the sand £30

I'm not made of money lol.

If the fish dies i'd take the crabs back and start over with the same stuff if that would work? do a big water change and change the filters and leave it to cycle again? or does it not work like that

I was doing a 20% water change every week

If he survives the night i'll try and get prazipro and cupramine tomorrow

if i took all the live stock out water changed and replaced filters could i treat it like a new tank and leave it to cycle and add dr tims microbact 7 or biospira is it a piece of shrimp like the shrimp you buy in the super market?

the ammonia is really low now not 0 but below 0.2 id say but the fish is still gasping at the surface. has the damage been done now or is there a chance of recovery?

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Ph will drop at night and raise during the day, although a baseline of 7.4 is way to low. Turn the filtration on, turning it off will do more harm than good. Go to Petsmart or Petco and get some Seachem Prime as an emergency measure, but I fear that the damage has already gone too far for the remaining clown.

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Aw that makes sense, I thought they were like killing my fish aha.

Is that due to something i've done or bad luck or due to the store? cause if its the store im certainly gonna complain. he was eating i fed them every seconds day half a cube of frozen mysis for the 2 clowns and the shrimp. the store told me one full cube a day but it seemed a bit much considering they are tiny! i dont think he'll eat tomorrow though if he's still in the state he's in gasping at the surface. can you recommend a water additive to treat it?

Yeah, I bought the API saltwater master kit on amazon. i thought it wasnt 100% accurate because the text kit never showed any readings before this happened it was always about 0 for everything and the ph was 8 but i used ph buffer to put it up now its about 7. I saved some water from before i changed it at all to take to them and i'll also take some water from the tank as it stands now. dunno when ill next get down though :( I dont drive and theres no buses that go by the shop so id need to rely on a lift.

I moved the pump from the back compartment to get more surface movement but the current just seemed to be pushing him about so i turned it off. i'll turn it back on and see though. thank god i dont need to throw everything :')


Should I add the PH buffer then? I've turned the pump back on. I guess i'll just need to wait and see how things go


He's swimming about mental trying to jump now and being pushed around by the pump :(

ahh I feel really baddd

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He's lying on the bottom of the tank on his side now. It's just a matter of time till he dies. That's the tragic end of Romeo and Juliet.

Right so can i get a step by step on what to do from here and how to make my tank properly cycled?

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I would leave the fish in there, even after it has passed. That's the ammonia source. The inverts will not like the ammonia, if you have even a little bit of water maybe you can put them in a separate container of water till this tank cycles, they don't need a lot. Don't feed them in the container unless you are able to change the water. You clue to the cycle would be the nitrite and nitrate spiking. If it doesn't, my conclusion is that the test kit is faulty. At that point test nitrates daily and when they drop to zero you're done , time for a water change. You can stock up on what you need in the meantime such as salt or salt water, better test kits, distilled or RO water for top offs.

 

You can cycle with the lights off as well.

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Suxors

 

Wait... that's the best thing to do and this point. Lol just wait

 

Let the water run for one or two weeks while you dial in the Ph and watch the ammonia. You may get a false positive reading from the API kit up to and including .25. After a couple weeks you should take the water along with you to the LFS and get it tested before getting any new fishes.

 

Until the

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I have a bit of water left. enough to fill a small tub/bucket, do i need to put the heater in the water with them? What would they even eat? can you buy food for them? All ive seen them eat is algae theyve not went for any the mysis shrimp ive put in or the fish treat things i got.

Would they be okay without any food? How long should I keep them out the tank? My little fish is dead now. I'll leave her in to be the source of ammonia. will the bacteria to break it down build up on their own or should i add something to the water to kick start it? When should I start testing the water again? :)


"dial in the Ph" what do you mean?

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I probably have enough water to quarter fill a bucket. so stick some water in there. stick the heater in? spare shells? If I were to give them food what would it be and how often? put the pump in or keep that in the tank to cycle? I could probs get an airstone for it tomorrow. should i put something for them to hide in?

 

sorry for all the questions but i dont want these lil guys to die aswell. Also one of the hermits is a big bit bigger than the other any chance of fighting/bullying?

 

Would they be in the bucket for a full month as the tank cycles or should this cycle be shorte?

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Slow Down!!!

 

Don't use pH buffer... it is going to cause swings as the effect is only temporary. 7.8 is acceptable and it is not a good idea to chase pH and instead find the cause. Chasing pH is only going to cause more problems. The API kit is probably not very accurate anyways.

 

Buy some seachem prime to always have on hand. It will detoxify ammonia/nitrite/nitrate for 24-72 hours and a life saver in emergencies. It is also great for QT. http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-116043304-Prime-500ml/dp/B00025694O

 

If you want to QT, it will need a spare heater and something for flow (even just an air pump agitating the water). Hermit crabs will eat fish food, nori, ect but they need to be fed sparingly or you will pollute the QT. I would just hand them 1 small piece on tweezers or get something that sinks like a pellets. A small dose of prime between water changes on the QT will help with ammonia since the QT won't be cycled but.... 2 hermits crabs will create a lot less ammonia than a bunch of uncycled rock so it should be easier to maintain. Just buy lots and lots of water to have on hand.

 

You could also leave the crabs in the tank and "soft cycle" the tank but.... it requires a lot of water changes and I am not sure if that is something you can do easily: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/180442-the-soft-cycle-thread/

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