MP10 Pricing to Drop?

[LongDoggy]

Well I drive a BMW and I still don't see the value of these pumps. I'm sorry, but I really don't.

I still see the wires, and I think it can be made better for the price. I'm not sold.

[HecticDialectics]

Granted, I'm running bare bottom. So, I don't have to worry about about sand blowing around, but I have my MP-10 on full blast, shortest LPM and have a WP-10 at 75% Else mode in my 25 gallon cube. Everything is very very happy. No flesh getting torn off anything. Nothing struggling to open. Hardly any detritus build up on the bottom. PE is stellar on my acros.

No way! Our industry pro said it's bunk!

[BattleAthletics]

Whoa! Watch out everyone! We got an industry pro over here!

 

Lmfao!

Apologize for making fun of our resident industry pro!

 

In all seriousness(lol), apparently formula is an avid ecotech hater, and is now captain of the "if you can't crank dat bítch up you shouldn't have it" club.

 

Every random thread I read on here about these pumps always ends up with formula saying something negative about them. To each his own, why don't you go back to saying how bad your old job needs you because they can't run a business without you.

[Hart24601]

I had an mp10 on my biocube 14 for 2 years until I tore the tank down. 80% on reef crest mode. I eventually went bare bottom, but even before that I placed it so there wasn't a sandstorm and the coral and fish did not get beat up. I would have run it even higher, but I prefer to run things like that less than max to prolong life.

 

The vortech was great in that application since having the motor outside gave me more room for coral. Now in my 120 I moved from vortechs to gyre, but I would have even added more flow in the biocube.

Here is a pic before the bare bottom, I eventaually went all SPS in there moving the LPS to another system. Even when this photo was taken I was running 70% of max.

 

[Mr. Microscope]

No way! Our industry pro said it's bunk!

What do you mean? Does he think I'm lying?

[afyounie]

I got a used MP10 from someone on here and I have to say it is convenient. No, its not the amazing life changing piece of equipment you see some say, but it is nice. I use it in a standard 29 gal. I keep mine set at about 50-60% on lagoon mode because the flow is random and doesn't idle as much as in reef crest mode. That idle time is really annoying. I want strong flow and really strong flow alternating. I don't get a sandstorm and the corals love it. I will say the tunze pumps I had were better, but were too big for the tank. The main thing that annoys me is the random moments when the thing whines. I usually walk over and tap the dry side and it will stop.

[patrickbruno91]

I had an mp10 on my biocube 14 for 2 years until I tore the tank down. 80% on reef crest mode. I eventually went bare bottom, but even before that I placed it so there wasn't a sandstorm and the coral and fish did not get beat up. I would have run it even higher, but I prefer to run things like that less than max to prolong life.

 

The vortech was great in that application since having the motor outside gave me more room for coral. Now in my 120 I moved from vortechs to gyre, but I would have even added more flow in the biocube.

 

Here is a pic before the bare bottom, I eventaually went all SPS in there moving the LPS to another system. Even when this photo was taken I was running 70% of max.

 

 

I agree. I also run my mp 10 on my 20 gallon long at around 75% on reef crest mode for a few hours while i am home. Also and i have had no issues with any sandstorms or splashing of water out of the tank. I have ran in at 90% with no issues either for 15 minutes.

 

LPS all seem to be fine with it as long as they are not directly in front of it.

 

Maybe it is due to the aquascape and where the corals are placed.

[RK_tek]

If the price drops an appreciable amount, I'll probably buy a second one for my 27g. Not so much for massive flow, but to get more random flow and eliminate some low flow areas.

 

The price of MPxx is understandable in that they did R&D to develop the product and cornered the market, but with new competing products, I think it's time they lower prices or make improvements

[jedimasterben]

 

My beef with the vortech pumps now is their stupid modes. When I set my pumps to reef crest I do not want calm, ever. I want random strong flow that maybe alternates between 50% power and 100% power. Not sure what they were thinking with reef crest mode spending any significant time idling.

What if I told you that you would actually get higher water velocity and overall movement from two pumps not fighting each other?

[Acielot]

Im looking forward to a price drop in the mp10. I wwould get another.

 

The Mp40 is perfect on the 40B at least imo

[jedimasterben]

If the price drops an appreciable amount, I'll probably buy a second one for my 27g. Not so much for massive flow, but to get more random flow and eliminate some low flow areas.

 

The price of MPxx is understandable in that they did R&D to develop the product and cornered the market, but with new competing products, I think it's time they lower prices or make improvements

Their R&D was paid off from the MP40, their first pump, a looong time ago.

[markalot]

What if I told you that you would actually get higher water velocity and overall movement from two pumps not fighting each other?

 

In my opinion ....

 

You do get higher velocity but unfortunately it's restricted to the area in front of the pump and the undertow down near the sandbed. To really get motion you need a pump to run full speed for a few seconds and then get rudely interrupted by opposing flow, which you can see when all the polyps quickly react to the "shock wave" created when this happens. When you sync the MP40's they either fight each other at the same speed or they are opposite, which means low to mid speeds are about the same and only when one pump goes full tilt does the other back off.

 

I watched this for hours and I could identify numerous dead areas in the tank that might get some polyp movement for a few seconds during speed changes.

 

Now that I have the RW15's on wave mode I've got great random flow and motion and everything looks healthier. I could do this manually with the vortechs by setting both to constant and then backing one off for 30 seconds and then cranking it on. I know a lot of people run like this, with one pump in constant mode and the other in long pulse.

 

tldr

 

Basically the vortechs work best un-synced so the interaction between the two pumps is random. There should be a program mode that simulates this. I'm addicted to chaotic flow. If I could combine a gyre with the vortechs and RW15 I bet it would be fantastic.

[jedimasterben]

In my opinion ....

 

You do get higher velocity but unfortunately it's restricted to the area in front of the pump and the undertow down near the sandbed. To really get motion you need a pump to run full speed for a few seconds and then get rudely interrupted by opposing flow, which you can see when all the polyps quickly react to the "shock wave" created when this happens. When you sync the MP40's they either fight each other at the same speed or they are opposite, which means low to mid speeds are about the same and only when one pump goes full tilt does the other back off.

 

I watched this for hours and I could identify numerous dead areas in the tank that might get some polyp movement for a few seconds during speed changes.

 

Now that I have the RW15's on wave mode I've got great random flow and motion and everything looks healthier. I could do this manually with the vortechs by setting both to constant and then backing one off for 30 seconds and then cranking it on. I know a lot of people run like this, with one pump in constant mode and the other in long pulse.

 

tldr

 

Basically the vortechs work best un-synced so the interaction between the two pumps is random. There should be a program mode that simulates this. I'm addicted to chaotic flow. If I could combine a gyre with the vortechs and RW15 I bet it would be fantastic.

The problem is that you cannot make a gyre and have 'chaotic' flow. When you start mass water movement, you get more water volume moving over coral, which is better than getting slapped, then very little, then getting slapped, then very little. The coral will have more time to grab CO2/oxygen/nutrients/elements/etc and is better able to remove CO2/oxygen/waste. You can actually test this with the Jebao powerheads you have now - turn off the MP40s, move both Jebao to the same panel near each other and near the surface blowing straight across your tank, then observe coral movement once a gyre begins to move (should take a few minutes).

[LongDoggy]

Their R&D was paid off from the MP40, their first pump, a looong time ago.

 

I completely agree. Now if we look at this from a pure economic standpoint, the reason for a price drop is to identify the market equilibrium.

They knew they had a monopoly from the start and chose to price high knowing they will sell units purely based on product uniqueness. Product capabilities aside which are undoubtedly strong.

 

Now that there seems to be an open market for competitors, R&D capital expense aside, and lowing the price will entice those who chose not to buy at the high initial price point; they will try to pick up new customers before a competitor comes out and takes those potential customers first.

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the R&D that went into this product and I think it is phenomenally capable and easily applicable to our reefs; but I fall into the category of people who feel it was priced too high.

 

My knee-jerk reaction to this market price move is that they know a strong competitor is coming up on there heels.

I will be waiting with cash in hand.

[jedimasterben]

My knee-jerk reaction to this market price move is that they know a strong competitor is coming up on there heels.

I will be waiting with cash in hand.

They know one coming up? It already happened.

[LongDoggy]

They know one coming up? It already happened.

 

Not Jebao right? There is another unit available that has the motor on the outside?

Please enlighten me.

[jedimasterben]

Not Jebao right? There is another unit available that has the motor on the outside?

Please enlighten me.

No, they have a patent covering that. In addition, keeping the motor on the outside is NOT cheap. Cost of production on the MP40 is high, especially considering the new lowered price (price of materials, construction, shipping, etc remained the same). The MP10 doesn't cost THAT much less to produce, so a big price drop would bring them to a point where there is not much room for profit, which is a poor business decision unless they could sell significantly more pumps than before.

[markalot]

The problem is that you cannot make a gyre and have 'chaotic' flow. When you start mass water movement, you get more water volume moving over coral, which is better than getting slapped, then very little, then getting slapped, then very little. The coral will have more time to grab CO2/oxygen/nutrients/elements/etc and is better able to remove CO2/oxygen/waste. You can actually test this with the Jebao powerheads you have now - turn off the MP40s, move both Jebao to the same panel near each other and near the surface blowing straight across your tank, then observe coral movement once a gyre begins to move (should take a few minutes).

 

So you know what I'm going to ask, right? How do we know which is better. When I feed flake it's all over my tank in seconds so based on that I assume more food can get to the corals under the scheme I have. With just the vortechs food would stream across the top of the tang and down to the other pump and then back but take a while to make it all over.

 

I think there was a study done by someone, maybe just a hobbyist, showing food "grabbing" potential for various corals at various flow rates.

 

/shrug

[LongDoggy]

No, they have a patent covering that. In addition, keeping the motor on the outside is NOT cheap. Cost of production on the MP40 is high, especially considering the new lowered price (price of materials, construction, shipping, etc remained the same). The MP10 doesn't cost THAT much less to produce, so a big price drop would bring them to a point where there is not much room for profit, which is a poor business decision unless they could sell significantly more pumps than before.

 

I was waiting for you to say they had a patent. I thought about spinning up a competing company but had a feeling I would run into a patent block. There is likely a loop hole, there always is if you dig deep enough.

 

I understand the MP10 and MP40 have similar manufacturing costs; but I think for nano use I am out. $100 would be my budget for a MP10 like pump.

Now if I were doing a large reef, $300 for an MP40 would be within reasonable budget.

 

I don't know, perhaps it is principle for me. But I seem to have an issue with it.

[jedimasterben]

I understand the MP10 and MP40 have similar manufacturing costs; but I think for nano use I am out. $100 would be my budget for a MP10 like pump.

That's not really possible. Manufacturing costs are near or higher than that.

[Formula462]

Lol really? Yeah I'm not a huge fan but I don't hate them. I loved them on the frag tank and the 125 we had. Had 10s and 40s. I think all I said was its funny when I see them on dinky little tanks. Just a personal observation that I for whatever reason or another, find amusing.

 

Wasn't trying to scoreboard anybody by saying I was an industry pro, but I was... doesn't mean I know everything. Just means I probably dealt with the companies and products on a larger scale.

I like video games as a hobby but I bet a professional tester or someone who works in the distribution side of things would know more about it... I didn't just work at fish stores.

 

But anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight, that's dumb.

[GHill762]

In every nano tank I've ever serviced (mine included) mp10s are dialed down as slow as they can go so they don't destroy the sand bed, coral, slam fish into rocks, or throw water over the side. I realized it's the same thing as when people buy Ferraris because they can, yet they don't know how to properly drive it, and it never gets out of third gear...it's just a "look at what I have" kinda deal.

 

Plus they are loud as shit on small tanks whether people are willing to admit it or not, and my nano is right next to my head when I'm sleeping or reading in bed. I guess you could compare it to the Ferrari situation again lol, smiling as you step out of if after a 50 mile ride and trying to convince yourself you didn't slip a disc whilst running over a manhole cover.

 

I have an mp10 on a casco 60 gallon, it MIGHT be running at 70-80%

 

 

on my 15g I ran an mp10 at 60-65%, on my 40b I have 2x mp10 both running at or near maxxed out..

[LongDoggy]

That's not really possible. Manufacturing costs are near or higher than that.

 

Do you have a source?

 

I mean really, if a Jebao of comparable size and capability goes for $50 vs $300 for the MP40. Your telling me they have 6x the manufacturing cost? To me, the main difference I see is the magnetic drive and I don't think it is that drastic of a cost to justify that much of a price difference.

 

Cut the Jebao in half, add foam pads to each side, put on two drive disks on each side of the driveshaft and put on three or four matching high power magnets and voila! Obviously needs some spit and polish to make it clean looking, but conceptually thats all we are really looking at here.

[Formula462]

However if we were off topic and discussing how to pick out pants from the juniors section at a department store as an adult man...we would all do well to listen to Hectic.

 

Experience can speak volumes.

 

That's not really possible. Manufacturing costs are near or higher than that.

That's true.The margins are low and the wholesale is high too.

[LynkUK]

Try contacting Jebao for customer support, then try again with Ecotech. I have had nothing but VIP like service from Ecotech...which is something some LFS should consider when stocking items that go faulty on a customer, when they have a policy of sending the customer back to the manufacturer for faulty items.

 

Ive said it before...I would rather pay the extra knowing I'm also getting great customer support.