High phosphates.... just cant seem to beat it.

[TassieGirl]

Hi, I have high phosphates in my 30L nano cube. I cannot for the life of me seem to lower them. I have 2 small clowns, an elegance (doing great) palm tree coral (not so great) and zoas (also not good), And have just lost a torch. Parameters as follows:

sg: 1.025

Ph: 7.8

Nitrates .25

Phosphates: low range hanna checker 200+ (so above 6)

Calc: 450

dKH: 10.5

Mag: 1520

 

I have a Dymax skimmer running, some live rock and crashed coral substrate. I have been doing 40% water changes at least 4 times a week for the last 2 weeks.... I cannot seem to drop the phosphates. My new water tests all good.... Help please.

[farkwar]

Hmm, lost torch but kept elegance, that's different. Zoas like kinda dirty water, so whats pissing them off?

 

No mention of feeding routine. No mention of problem algae. No mention of age of tank.

 

Water changes that are certainly aggressive. RODI or distilled water, yes?

 

Adequate skimming.

 

Something is missing, doesn't add up.

 

Anyway, with the given info, I would get a TLF 150 and use GFO or Phosban (or generic granulated ferric hydroxide) in a media bag.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+13963&pcatid=13963

 

I'll assume 30L is liters not long. So that's like 8 gallons. With 3(40%) gallon water changes 4 times a week, you shouldn't be reading any nutrients at all.

[TassieGirl]

Ok.... So I'm feeding the clowns once a day and there is no food left over. They eat it as it leaves the spoon. There is no nuisance algae and the tank is about 5 months old. And yes the elegance is looking awesome. I use rain water and Red Sea Coral Pro salt mix. The water tests perfect once mixed. The last 6 days I've been using Seachem Phosguard in the sump.... Maybe it needs longer to work.

[4x5]

Have you tested the phosphate level in the rain water? Something is not right if you're doing that many water changes.

[Admonition]

+1 above, test the water prior to mixing it

[TassieGirl]

Yes - my new water tests perfect. Both before and after mixing.

[4x5]

Yes - my new water tests perfect. Both before and after mixing.

What is the phosphate reading on the rain water?

[TassieGirl]

With the low range phosphorous hanna checker it reads 9

[4x5]

9ppm? Sorry I don't have one of those kits so I just want to clarify.

[Admonition]

So you're water has a 0.027 phosphate reading. Could be the cause of your problem, try using RODI water

 

9ppm? Sorry I don't have one of those kits so I just want to clarify.

To convert the phosphorus (P) reading on this Hannah meter into phosphate (PO4) you would have to multiply by .003 per Hannah's directions when I called for myself months ago.

[4x5]

To convert the phosphorus (P) reading on this Hannah meter into phosphate (PO4) you would have to multiply by .003 per Hannah's directions when I called for myself months ago.

Thanks.

 

If you can get your hands on some RODI or Distilled I'd try that for a while and see what happens with the nutrient levels. I can't help but think it's the water. Phosguard will help but be careful, it's powerful stuff and if you use too much your corals will get mad.

[TassieGirl]

Yes I understand that the tank water contains that amount of phosphates but my tank is reading 200+. The low range checker stops at 200. So somewhere after mixing it's gaining in excess of 193ppb in phosphates.

[farkwar]

You have a sump on an 8 gallon tank?

 

Crushed coral can trap poop, that turns into nutrients. Can you remove the crushed coral substrate?

 

Live rock can be a source of phosphates. It gets stored in the rock, releasing it into the water. Normally you see this as clumps of green hair algae on the rock. Which you don't have.

 

Randall Holmes Farley makes a good argument to NOT use Phosguard.

 

So somewhere after mixing it's gaining in excess of 193ppb in phosphates.

Phosphorus

 

The low range Hanna tests phosphorous, not phosphate.

 

Use a different test method. NanoTopia has done extensive testing on the Hanna phosphate and phosphorous checkers. Her conclusion is that there is too much error on these testers and the chemical packets used to trust their results.

 

I take it back, there is a low range phosphate, nm all that nonsense.

[seabass]

Sure they aren't exact, but the checkers are good enough to get you in the ballpark. However that number makes me think that something is wrong with it (or more likely, the reagent). Try to get someone else to confirm the results with another test kit.

 

Rain water picks up contaminants from the air and it's not even recommended to drink water that has run off of buildings. I would use a different water source.

 

Phosguard is good (and safe to use as recommended), but it will become exhausted quickly in water that is this high in phosphate. You will have to replace it frequently.

[CronicReefer]

If your phosphate problems are that serious you could always try this product. It has a huge capacity for removing phosphates from the water.

 

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/xport_po4.php

[Tamberav]

Do you clean the crushed coral?

[seabass]

They eat it as it leaves the spoon.

I meant to ask, what is it that you are feeding, and how much?

 

However, I'm still guessing your test is wrong without having algae problems.

[TassieGirl]

I have just gone to collect some water from my tank for testing and the cup came out looking like this!!! What on earth is causing that?

[akma]

Research phosphate RX. It's chemical name is lanthium chloride. It's what the large aquariums around the world use to drop their phosphates. Just dose the amount writtten in the tank. I pour the drops directly into my skimmer so the binded phosphates can get skimmed out as opposed to in tank.

[BlueThumb]

High phosphates aren't the end of the word unless you're having algae outbreaks and your coral show poor coloration, deformed or stunted growth. As far as soft coral, they are generally believed to be more tolerant of higher phosphate levels. Most experienced reefers would tell you that stable parameters are more important than aiming for ultra-low nutrient levels.

 

Until recently I never even tested for phosphates (3x years not testing) in my 28 gallon SPS dominant AIO as over the years as I've learned to keep an eye on my sps coloration and growth as an indicator. I've had many algae issues and coral coloration could be better but things are growing. Surprisingly, I've only lost a few corals and none of the deaths were related to water quality issues.

 

If you want to keep phosphate down in a stable manner, use a lanthanum chloride drip into a skimmer as mentioned above or drop into a 10 micro sock. Or run bio pellets or vodka dosing with heavy skimming. I've seen all of these done successfully to keep phosphates stable and in check.