another 0.7 pico

[brandon429]

Just keeping the salinity under control this consistently in a tank this small reflects excellent planning. I agree your clam growth and other coral details look promising, your feeding plan is above average I say keep going strong

[Roland-Berlin]

Just keeping the salinity under control this consistently in a tank this small reflects excellent planning. I agree your clam growth and other coral details look promising, your feeding plan is above average I say keep going strong

 

thank you for your encouraging words. To be honest, I do not spend too much time in controling salinity in this tank. I do have only a very cheap aerometer, and I guess, that the measurement results are not precise. And of course there are ups and downs concerning salinity, temperature, trace elements and so on. Not least because I sometimes change the salt brand. At this point, all animials cope with this changing parameters. Perhaps, this tank can be a contribution against the perception, that sea-dwellers are oversensitive against changing water parameters, so that people are afraid of doing heavy waterchanges. To my mind, healthy animals can stand this. What they can not stand over a longer period of time is water polution or missing food. But below the line, these animals are survival artists. They survived evolution. They are not from mars. And: they can be cultured in a tank. Time will show, whether they can be cultivated even in my small vase.

[Roland-Berlin]

Looking great. Within another month or so the algae will become quite the scrub challenge, the toothbrush is like a grazer that rasps the outside off and leaves the inner holdfasts on the rock to grow back. It also casts bits of algae to regrow elsewhere, we use peroxide in sub gallon tanks for a reason its not to challenge reef rules

 

We use it because nothing works better for true long term control, and nothing works in its place in tanks this small. Andrew k was able to avoid it in his 4 yr old pico by using gfo and actively starving algae before it developed holdfasts. Once developed, its just 4-8 weeks before nothing else other than peroxide can save the tank. A thousand sub gallon picos came to this same fork in the road which is why 18 mos is a great goal, they are taken down due to algae at month 8 usually. Only those who use peroxide or gfo will make that mark.

 

 

The first test in sub gallon reefing was getting coral to grow, sps

 

Now its longevity. Mostly nobody gets to or past 18 without a thick green forest around their prized corals

 

Mostly

 

 

Try hard to continue using no cheats, but right when you can see it coming back every single day and overtaking corals shoot me a pm and within about two days we can turn the around 100% like the big threads show. We do not dump it in the tank,we use a dropper and hit a small patch one at a time with a follow up 100% water change to export it back out. It needs a specific plan then nothing in your tank will be harmed.

 

The action signal is when the algae starts growing on the clam shell and around new corals, signifying its mark around the tank. Its easy to beat at that point with a little targeted action.

 

I had never heard of peroxide used in the algea battle-- knowlegde gap?? To me, it sounds dangerous, at least when someone like me, with no practice in this subject, is trying to work with peroxide in a very small water quantity. Is there a thread in this forum about the use of peroxide? I guess, gfo could be the minimally invasive alternative. But it does only work, before everything is overgrown? I guess, I will have a closer look to andrew k. dymax IQ3 reef. Skimming his thread, I had the impression, that his reef is an attemp to create an almost self contained system, with a high self cleaning capacity. Compared to this, my reef is more working like.... what to say... like a bird cage, which has to be cleaned up twice a week. That means, I do not expect a high organic self cleaning power. And I hoped, that the wchanges would reduce algea pest. I now see, that this assumption was a mistake. And of course -as you said- the toothbrush does not realy solve the problem. During the last days, I was thinking about "overplanting" the reef with sweeping animals like mushrooms or min-max anemones in order to whithdraw free places for algeas to grow.

 

 

(supplement: I have seen it: many, many threads about peroxide-- a lot to read and learn)

[brandon429]

Thats keenly said, its true you can exclude algae by planting corals. Algae likes the hard skeletal surface it does not like the polyp where direct cellular battles ensue

Whoever had algae sprout in the middle of a mushroom coral! Algae also will choose non coralline areas over thick purple areas as well, so the ideal is packed coral on a purple reef and you are attaining that.

 

Agreed again about salinity what my pico does while on vacation is insulting, and its expected to deal with it so it does. I may get home to .027 and I don't want to see any mad polyps lol.

 

Here are the two largest peroxide threads on the web. To save sixteen hours of reading its this for your tank:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/page-58

 

Don't treat whole tank at once

 

We know which animals / corals are sensitive to it and yours aren't. Cleaner shrimp and some anemones are, so keep it away from that cold water anem by using creativity, and even if you don't we've never logged an anemone loss just angry polyp. I factored whats in your tank before recommending peroxide.

 

Preserving the ecosystem is top priority no matter what, in the past keepers let algae encroach as it willed. Now its burned

 

 

The key is you don't have to use peroxide. Scrubbing is fine, it is cutting the mass down and that can continue

 

The benefit of peroxide is after a few treatments the algae will slow tremendously, regardless of your phosphates. As you can see algae doesn't need detectable phosphate to make a living. It finds trace p

 

You could just as easily use any liquid such as kalk paste droplets, or kent magnesium droplets right on the algae, even vodka alcohol which is lethal as a spot killer (none of these are as good as peroxide but are alternatives)

 

Peroxide will lessen your algae removal work. One would think you must attack nutrients to lessen algae work, we don't, thats the new knowledge for this decade. Refusing a biomass works as demonstrated. My nutrients are the worst they have ever been due to water change neglect yet Ive only spot treated peroxide twice in 24 mos. I took the time to kill off the initial growths as needed then they weren't there to respond to anyone's phosphate.

 

What I do get from time to time is cyano it I'm lazy on export

There's a deep sand bed in my reef which adds nutrient concerns so I can't be too lazy with it

 

The no sb or shallow sb is much easier

 

You would do small bits at a time, not the whole area. Drain tank place two drops 3% on the bad area for first test run

 

Let sit for one min, it won't act like its doing anything. Prob won't bubble either. But its working...

 

Refill halfway, then drain that out which carries out the peroxide and then refill. If you choose peroxide thats how to do it. Wait a few days and post before and after pics of the test area and I'd like to use them on the threads if we could.

 

This is a brief contact time while you fill and drain and then replace fully, its well tolerated. Zero impact to bacteria, that too was a peroxide misnomer. In a tank that small you could easily lift and place it in the sink. Dab the peroxide target. In 1-2 mins fill the tank to the point it overflows into the sink carrying out the peroxide.

 

Your tank could handle ten drops of peroxide in it with no water change, so the extra measures we are taking are well designed insurance. Start with one drop on a target area and work up over a few days water changing. Your reef will like this refreshing up well.

 

Post pics!

[Cameron6796]

Peroxide is pretty safe... When you think about it it's just one more oxygen atom per molecule

[Roland-Berlin]

Thats keenly said, its true you can exclude algae by planting corals. Algae likes the hard skeletal surface it does not like the polyp where direct cellular battles ensue

Whoever had algae sprout in the middle of a mushroom coral! Algae also will choose non coralline areas over thick purple areas as well, so the ideal is packed coral on a purple reef and you are attaining that.

 

Agreed again about salinity what my pico does while on vacation is insulting, and its expected to deal with it so it does. I may get home to .027 and I don't want to see any mad polyps lol.

 

Here are the two largest peroxide threads on the web. To save sixteen hours of reading its this for your tank:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/page-58

 

Don't treat whole tank at once

 

We know which animals / corals are sensitive to it and yours aren't. Cleaner shrimp and some anemones are, so keep it away from that cold water anem by using creativity, and even if you don't we've never logged an anemone loss just angry polyp. I factored whats in your tank before recommending peroxide.

 

Preserving the ecosystem is top priority no matter what, in the past keepers let algae encroach as it willed. Now its burned

 

 

The key is you don't have to use peroxide. Scrubbing is fine, it is cutting the mass down and that can continue

 

The benefit of peroxide is after a few treatments the algae will slow tremendously, regardless of your phosphates. As you can see algae doesn't need detectable phosphate to make a living. It finds trace p

 

You could just as easily use any liquid such as kalk paste droplets, or kent magnesium droplets right on the algae, even vodka alcohol which is lethal as a spot killer (none of these are as good as peroxide but are alternatives)

 

Peroxide will lessen your algae removal work. One would think you must attack nutrients to lessen algae work, we don't, thats the new knowledge for this decade. Refusing a biomass works as demonstrated. My nutrients are the worst they have ever been due to water change neglect yet Ive only spot treated peroxide twice in 24 mos. I took the time to kill off the initial growths as needed then they weren't there to respond to anyone's phosphate.

 

What I do get from time to time is cyano it I'm lazy on export

There's a deep sand bed in my reef which adds nutrient concerns so I can't be too lazy with it

 

The no sb or shallow sb is much easier

 

You would do small bits at a time, not the whole area. Drain tank place two drops 3% on the bad area for first test run

 

Let sit for one min, it won't act like its doing anything. Prob won't bubble either. But its working...

 

Refill halfway, then drain that out which carries out the peroxide and then refill. If you choose peroxide thats how to do it. Wait a few days and post before and after pics of the test area and I'd like to use them on the threads if we could.

 

This is a brief contact time while you fill and drain and then replace fully, its well tolerated. Zero impact to bacteria, that too was a peroxide misnomer. In a tank that small you could easily lift and place it in the sink. Dab the peroxide target. In 1-2 mins fill the tank to the point it overflows into the sink carrying out the peroxide.

 

Your tank could handle ten drops of peroxide in it with no water change, so the extra measures we are taking are well designed insurance. Start with one drop on a target area and work up over a few days water changing. Your reef will like this refreshing up well.

 

Post pics!

Hi Brandon,

thank you so much for giving me the links to your peroxid threads. I think, it is no more time to waist, to attack algae in my tank. I started to fight back today. Pics will be posted soon. Greetings, roland.

[LeoLotto]

Hallo Roland,

 

nice little tank! maybe some fast growing macro algae (like a golfball sized piece of cheato hidden behind the rocks) would help to absorb more nutrient and thus starve the hairalgae.

 

Lieben Gruss,

 

Chris

[Roland-Berlin]

So, I hope that this is the first day of my tank to become almost free of algae. During the last days, it turns out, that mechanic removal of algae is not the way I want to keep the tank under control. During the last days, algae growing was enhanced, and the more I scrubed the stones, algae was growing faster and faster. This can not be the way to maintain the tank over a longer period of time.

 

The following pics show the backside of the tank, after about one week without scrubing the stones:

 

 

 

 

So Peroxid could be the answere?

First I was afraid of using peroxid, because I had ideas of an aggressive acid, drilling holes not only in algae, but in stones, corals, my skin and everything else. These assumptions seem to be total false. I read the threads brandon linked (see above), and my fears were degraded. But of course- trying something total new is alwas a challange.

 

This is what I did today:

 

I bought a small bottle of 3% peroxid. I was asthonished that it is so cheap: 100ml for about 1.5 Euro

 

the rocks were placed in a bucket

 

I applied undiluted 3% peroxid with a small paintbrush on the algae/on the rocks

 

application time: 4 minutes.

 

I rinsed out the rocks with about two liters of warmed saltwater.

 

this pic shows the corals some seconds after the treatment: they are not happy, a lot of slime is secreted.

[Roland-Berlin]

Hallo Roland,

 

nice little tank! maybe some fast growing macro algae (like a golfball sized piece of cheato hidden behind the rocks) would help to absorb more nutrient and thus starve the hairalgae.

 

Lieben Gruss,

 

Chris

 

Hello Chris...I do not think, that high levels of nutritions are the main problem. Because of high waterchanges after feeding, nutritions shoud be on a low level. I tried macro algae when I started the tank... and failed. So it is time for trying something else... see above. Lets see, whether it works.

 

Greetings to Bern, Roland.

[LeoLotto]

i wish you good luck with the peroxide, i'm following along.

[Roland-Berlin]

After about four hours the algae seem to bleach. Great. But the corals seem to suffer as well. Usually the animals open up after a heavy waterchange within a period of about two hours, after the peroxide treatment they are still offended. Perhaps it is because of the high load of oxygen, which stresses the corals? But at least, corals and clam open up a littlebit, so I guess/hope everything will be fine tomorrow.

 

I think, that the dying algae will polute the water, so I will make a second 100% water change tomorrow.

 

 

[Cameron6796]

It is like you assumed, the dying algae is releasing any nitrate it once consumed back into the water. Every thing should be fine but it may come time to upgrade soon. The algae may come back and you can take a cotton swab to it (with peroxide on it) to anything left over.

[Roland-Berlin]

This is, how the peroxide experiment went on:

The following picture shows the bleached algae after about 24 hours.

 

Yesterday, I scrubed the stones, and made a 100% waterchange.

 

This is, how the reef looks today:

 

 

Retrospective, I think the surface treated with peroxide, was too big for such a small reef. It will be better tolerated, when the use of peroxide is restricted on smaller areas. But below the line, the use was a full success. Peroxide is a cheap, good wappon against algae, it did not harm any of my corals, and it will be an inherent part in the maintenace of this reef.

If someone wants to read more about the peroxide use, please have a look to the links, brandon gave me above:

http://reefcentral.c...d.php?t=2082359

http://www.nano-reef...rove-it/page-58

(thank you for this!!)

This is, how the internet brings us new knowledge and development to our hobby. In this forum, there is more experience than in any book about saltwater tanks, I read before. We should use and propagate it.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Besides: one of the beadlet anemones in the cold water pico breeded today- a lump of baby anemones was released to the water, occupying the stone and macro algea.

 

Pest tank.

[brandon429]

looking really sharp~ excellent detailed pics

 

peroxide has saved my tank as well.

 

 

The next step, the next evolution, is when someone figures out how to pico reef without it and get as long term. AndrewK runs a 2 gallon setup that doesnt use it and is very old, he got the balance right with active phosphate binding above what water changes of any percentage could yield...GFO

 

GFO is no different a tool than peroxide in the pico reef, not every tank can utilize it (or peroxide) to keep everything algae free and corals non bleached but these are within the hip pack of tools we have at our disposal to try. By all means, anyone can experiment with phosphate control as an alt method of algae control. grazer balance as well (the best we can do within confines as small as your tank)

 

for me I just ignore all nutrients, never test for them, kill spots when small like a dime, and watch the years go by. I dont need GFO because the work I do with peroxide is about 3x per year its really no work.

[brandon429]

Ro

 

How we doing now about a week out after this peroxide run just curious!

[Roland-Berlin]

It is now more than two month ago, that my pico-project started, and I am proud, that I havent lost any animal during that time.

During the last week I was very busy, so I had not enough time for regular waterchanges. I changes 100% of the water "only" once a week. Apparently the corals agree with that, but I do not know, whether it will be a good long term approach or not. I hope, I can spend more time with the hobby during spring.

 

One supplement to the peroxide experiment: the sites, I treated with peroxide are still algae free. But besides this, all the other (not treated) sites also show a retreat of algae. I do not have any explanation for this. Perhaps the balance between algae and corals was suspended to the coral side, so they took their opportunity to suspress the proliferation of algea somehow? The macro algea which had no direct contact with peroxide, were not harmed. I am thinking of using GFO in order to suspress the algae growing over a longer period of time. Perhaps GFO could be the premise for (of?) low water load while only changing the water once a week?

 

 

 

(Pictures will follow)

 

Ro

How we doing now about a week out after this peroxide run just curious!

During the last days I was too busy and my tank suffers a bit.

[brandon429]

Roland its neat to watch you pose those questions, neat because truly working to keep a pico reef this densely packed alive will direct you to information proofs that make the masses with large tank references seem like they are in the stone ages regarding primary producer control in the marine aquarium.

 

Your pico reef is about to break and has already broken all rules our entire hobby was built on and that will cause ?? moments right up until it becomes so norm you'll wonder why those with giant tanks let things get so out of control.

 

The exact summary of the two peroxide threads:

Dude, you could have stopped all that on day one but I enjoy your day 1000 challenge can I pls repost your pics to others so that many can watch what a delay will cause right while they are running a delay, get the same results to my amazement, but we still save their tanks from the brink of death anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many of those posts in the reefcentral thread start with "I'm already running phosphate control before the invasion" and X has taken over my tank. Algae issues are vastly not nutrient issues

 

A new paradigm is coming. It'll catch on next decade.

 

Pico reefs were the first to indicate that nutrients and algae aren't tightly linked as the masses would have us think. Thats the specific reason why there is a long bell curve of sustenance after raw biomass kill and you have exported the kill agent and not even messed with phosphate.

 

 

 

 

The minority, not the majority, of algae invaded tanks have a nutrient issue. The reefs on Fiji grow copious algae, in pure waters, if you just remove grazers

 

Approaching any algae issue as a nutrient issue is incorrect, promulgated by most book authors, and its leading to thousands of people with problem algae tanks but I like that if they want to keep doing things that don't work and posting only just shy of tank takedown. Their tanks will get a prediction, a timeframe, and I'll get some after pics.

 

Algae has nothing to do with excess of anything in many natural settings, its the absence of something

 

The majority simply respond to occasional spot kills that are no more work or cost than constantly balancing and replenishing phosphate sequestering media. There is a reverse way of seeing algae in the marine tank thats polar opposite of most books and post history from actual scientists.

[Roland-Berlin]

Roland its neat to watch you pose those questions, neat because truly working to keep a pico reef this densely packed alive will direct you to information proofs that make the masses with large tank references seem like they are in the stone ages regarding primary producer control in the marine aquarium.

 

Your pico reef is about to break and has already broken all rules our entire hobby was built on and that will cause ?? moments right up until it becomes so norm you'll wonder why those with giant tanks let things get so out of control.

 

The exact summary of the two peroxide threads:

Dude, you could have stopped all that on day one but I enjoy your day 1000 challenge can I pls repost your pics to others so that many can watch what a delay will cause right while they are running a delay, get the same results to my amazement, but we still save their tanks from the brink of death anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many of those posts in the reefcentral thread start with "I'm already running phosphate control before the invasion" and X has taken over my tank. Algae issues are vastly not nutrient issues

 

A new paradigm is coming. It'll catch on next decade.

 

Pico reefs were the first to indicate that nutrients and algae aren't tightly linked as the masses would have us think. Thats the specific reason why there is a long bell curve of sustenance after raw biomass kill and you have exported the kill agent and not even messed with phosphate.

 

 

 

 

The minority, not the majority, of algae invaded tanks have a nutrient issue. The reefs on Fiji grow copious algae, in pure waters, if you just remove grazers

 

Approaching any algae issue as a nutrient issue is incorrect, promulgated by most book authors, and its leading to thousands of people with problem algae tanks but I like that if they want to keep doing things that don't work and posting only just shy of tank takedown. Their tanks will get a prediction, a timeframe, and I'll get some after pics.

 

Algae has nothing to do with excess of anything in many natural settings, its the absence of something

 

The majority simply respond to occasional spot kills that are no more work or cost than constantly balancing and replenishing phosphate sequestering media. There is a reverse way of seeing algae in the marine tank thats polar opposite of most books and post history from actual scientists.

It is such a simple perception: high loads of nutrition = algae. Starting my pico, I thought that waterchanges would be the insurance against high water loads and therefore against algae. I learned, that this is not (or not the whole) truth. Peroxide gives a breathing pause, but to my mind, it is not a real solution. There is a lot of work to do, a lot of coherences are waiting to be understood. But: when we look back in the history of reefing we can be proud of what many reefers found out in the past. On the other hand it surprises me, how long it takes, to bring new insights into the hobby. (And one personal question: Arent you sometimes tired of fighting against the antiquated traditions in our heads? )

[brandon429]

im not tired of it, gives me something to do and do with heavy resistance which in turn makes my reef live longer as more type has to be backed up lol

 

 

 

thats a nice clarification point. high loads of nutrient would lend algae, but algae still comes about in the face of low nutrients. the instant reaction that algae is a nutrient problem without considering it as a non removal problem is the driving force behind most algae challenges.

 

 

many tanks can find and sustain a balance between primary producer algae and waste loading by using exports or phosphate controls, but if thats elusive standard disallowance of algae w work well

 

it works as well as nutrient control in most cases.

[Roland-Berlin]

I am still doing my work: feeding, changing the water, and watching something to happen.

 

 

The following pictures show the clam after beeing irritated, so that it has closed up the shells.

Is someone able to identify the clam?

Have a nice weekend!

[Cameron6796]

It's a maxima

[brandon429]

Roland im curious to know if the clam opened back up

 

its very hard to work a pico reef with them, although this guy was adapting well for sure, hows it

[Roland-Berlin]

Roland im curious to know if the clam opened back up

 

its very hard to work a pico reef with them, although this guy was adapting well for sure, hows it

....everytime a shadow irritates the clam, it close up for a few seconds- just enough time to make a picture of the shells. When the clam feels safe again, it opens up, as though nothing had happened. When the light incidence change, the clam adjust its postion in order to optimize the light yield. Than you can see the clam wriggel around the stone to find a new postion. I love that small animal, and I hope it will stay for a long time in our world.

[brandon429]

that is great I have never been able to keep them to get to see that kind of self adjustment. amazing motile animal for sure.

[Toon87]

Roland since you are fairly close to me and using the same type heater. How do you keep your temp stable? Trying a controller now because not heating or trusting the heater aren't working for me.