nuvo media question.....

[cmb2104]

so from what im reading.... every single person with the nuvo tanks is replacing the media and basket..... i will more than likely get the intank basket since its highly recommended! but the actual media that goes in im seeing all different combos. chemi pure or purigen, or both?

 

this is a new tank set up(nuvo 8), so i also read that the sponge/factory media is best for the cycling process... is this correct?

 

thank you all!

I know i ask alot of questions, but im learning alot!

[Azedenkae]

Well, what sort of biological filter media do you have? That's the main (and only) type of filter media you should be running when cycling.

[Polarcollision]

Ah OK, so the reason you see so many combinations is that there's different media options for controlling nitrates and phosphates and also because each tank is different and may end up with different nutrient excesses. With my Nuvo 8, all I really needed was Purigen and carbon, mostly because I changed out the filter floss every 3 days religiously and didn't let the gunk decompose.

 

If you end up with higher nitrates, Purigen is my favorite passive flow media. If you can fit a skimmer in the media basket chamber, this might not even be needed.

 

If you end up with higher phosphates, PhosBan is my favorite. It lasts for 2-3 months in my tanks. I'd also add to be cautious and add a bit less than the bottle says at first because I and many others have killed coral by removing too much phosphate from the water. :-)

 

Carbon is good for removing organics and chemical warfare toxins, etc. I like two little fishies hydrocarbon. It is active for about 2 days and then becomes a good bacteria host to process other nutrients for the next 2 weeks. I rarely run carbon with the skimmer unless I'm fraggin palys.

 

Chemipure is carbon and phosphate absorber in one. Some people like it because 2-in-1. I don't because the lifespan of both is so different. Plus, I had to dose more Magnesium using it.

 

Lots of info - hope that helps break it down for you.

[NYfishies]

Polar,

 

I wish i would have read your post months ago. You summed up a lot of questions to the right media for a tank. I have a few new questions after reading your post.

 

I have a 5 month old NUVO 40 gallon with 35 lbs live rock, 30 lbs live sand, 5 fish, shrimp/crabs/snails, over a dozen corals (rather small / frags), a small refugium in 1 overflow chamber with chaeto, skimmer in 1 of the extra chambers, chemipure elite / phosban / purigen / mechanical sponge / filter pad in the 2nd overflow chamber. I started with the filter media combo less than a week ago.

 

You mention removing too much Phosphate with phosban and that hurting your corals. Can you elaborate? I thought that 0 ppm was the goal?

 

thanks!

[cmb2104]

Ah OK, so the reason you see so many combinations is that there's different media options for controlling nitrates and phosphates and also because each tank is different and may end up with different nutrient excesses. With my Nuvo 8, all I really needed was Purigen and carbon, mostly because I changed out the filter floss every 3 days religiously and didn't let the gunk decompose.

 

If you end up with higher nitrates, Purigen is my favorite passive flow media. If you can fit a skimmer in the media basket chamber, this might not even be needed.

 

If you end up with higher phosphates, PhosBan is my favorite. It lasts for 2-3 months in my tanks. I'd also add to be cautious and add a bit less than the bottle says at first because I and many others have killed coral by removing too much phosphate from the water. :-)

 

Carbon is good for removing organics and chemical warfare toxins, etc. I like two little fishies hydrocarbon. It is active for about 2 days and then becomes a good bacteria host to process other nutrients for the next 2 weeks. I rarely run carbon with the skimmer unless I'm fraggin palys.

 

Chemipure is carbon and phosphate absorber in one. Some people like it because 2-in-1. I don't because the lifespan of both is so different. Plus, I had to dose more Magnesium using it.

 

Lots of info - hope that helps break it down for you.

 

well its still confusing to me... i have never had corals before so i dont really know much about those and what they need yet. i just got the tank set up today... right now its got the factory set up with live rock, live sand.

 

on another note... is there no switch for the light that comes with it??? looks like i have to unplug it every day....

[Polarcollision]

Polar,

 

I wish i would have read your post months ago. You summed up a lot of questions to the right media for a tank. I have a few new questions after reading your post.

 

I have a 5 month old NUVO 40 gallon with 35 lbs live rock, 30 lbs live sand, 5 fish, shrimp/crabs/snails, over a dozen corals (rather small / frags), a small refugium in 1 overflow chamber with chaeto, skimmer in 1 of the extra chambers, chemipure elite / phosban / purigen / mechanical sponge / filter pad in the 2nd overflow chamber. I started with the filter media combo less than a week ago.

 

You mention removing too much Phosphate with phosban and that hurting your corals. Can you elaborate? I thought that 0 ppm was the goal?

 

thanks!

 

So this one is a big ol can of worms. This might get a little long, but everything's so interconnected I don't know what to leave out.

 

The numbers I shoot for are between 0.02 and 0.06. Absolute 0 is bad for coral since they need phosphate to live. Remember ATP from biology -- powerhouse of the cell? The 'TP' is triphosphate. With absolute 0 in the water, there's no phosphate available for cell functions. It's used in lots of other biomolecules, too. DNA, RNA, and the phospholipids of cell membranes, etc. I don't really know if people actually mean they have zero phosphates or if they're rounding down or if their test kit isn't precise...

 

It gets complicated from here, partly because there's a lot of question about the reliability of phosphate test kit readings. Search 'phosphate' and 'Nanotopia' for the detailed lowdown. Basically you can't take hobby grade test kit readings to the bank.

 

The other complication is that pest algae and other single-cells can be sucking up phosphates from the water. So even if they're in excess enough to help pests grow, the test kit will tell you the water is clean.

 

My solution is to get the Hanna test kit that is sensitive to low concentrations. Even then, it's just a ball park number. But at least it gives a fuzzy idea if it's anywhere close to ideal levels. Before that, I was using an ELOS phosphate test kit. Anything below 2.0 looked just like a 0 reading, so all it did for me was let me know when the water was super dirty. :-)

 

If the Hanna test kit is giving me a number in my 0.02-0.06 range and I get a film on the glass about 2-3 days after scraping it off and if my SPS has rich, vibrant colors, I figure I'm at a good level. If I have an outbreak of cyano or dinoflagellates or pest algae and my SPS takes on a brownish cast but Hanna tells me I'm in range, I know it's lying to me. Time to replace PhosBan, assuming it's depleted and cut back on feeding a tiny bit until everything's back in line. If SPS get really pale/tan and corals start to look sickly and there's been no algae film to scrape off the glass for a week, I know there's not enough phosphates and up my feeding/amino acids and stop changing out filter floss until corals recover.

 

Hope that helps!

[Polarcollision]

well its still confusing to me... i have never had corals before so i dont really know much about those and what they need yet. i just got the tank set up today... right now its got the factory set up with live rock, live sand.

 

on another note... is there no switch for the light that comes with it??? looks like i have to unplug it every day....

 

Waiting for the tank to cycle is a good time to start learning about the basics and collecting high quality test kits. You don't really need to to much of anything for about 2 weeks or more while the tank fully cycles. Since I like to feed fish a lot, I want a large, diverse amount of bacteria processing nutrients for me. My personal tank-cycling technique is to toss in a cube of mysis shrimp and pellets--whatever you're going to feed the fish--then let it fully decompose over those 2 weeks. When the tank can process that much food twice a week, It's ready for me. :-)

 

I personally wouldn't use anything other than filter floss during those first two weeks. Once the food is decomposed, test your water to see where you're at. If phosphates are high, add something to reduce them. If nitrates are high, add Purigen/carbon and do water changes until they come down below 5 (that's my upper limit).

 

I think you can plug the light into a timer, or splurge for a reef controller.

[cmb2104]

this is becoming a bigger project than i had anticipated..... lol

[Polarcollision]

Yeah, but it's worth it

[NYfishies]

So this one is a big ol can of worms. This might get a little long, but everything's so interconnected I don't know what to leave out.

 

The numbers I shoot for are between 0.02 and 0.06. Absolute 0 is bad for coral since they need phosphate to live. Remember ATP from biology -- powerhouse of the cell? The 'TP' is triphosphate. With absolute 0 in the water, there's no phosphate available for cell functions. It's used in lots of other biomolecules, too. DNA, RNA, and the phospholipids of cell membranes, etc. I don't really know if people actually mean they have zero phosphates or if they're rounding down or if their test kit isn't precise...

 

It gets complicated from here, partly because there's a lot of question about the reliability of phosphate test kit readings. Search 'phosphate' and 'Nanotopia' for the detailed lowdown. Basically you can't take hobby grade test kit readings to the bank.

 

The other complication is that pest algae and other single-cells can be sucking up phosphates from the water. So even if they're in excess enough to help pests grow, the test kit will tell you the water is clean.

 

My solution is to get the Hanna test kit that is sensitive to low concentrations. Even then, it's just a ball park number. But at least it gives a fuzzy idea if it's anywhere close to ideal levels. Before that, I was using an ELOS phosphate test kit. Anything below 2.0 looked just like a 0 reading, so all it did for me was let me know when the water was super dirty. :-)

 

If the Hanna test kit is giving me a number in my 0.02-0.06 range and I get a film on the glass about 2-3 days after scraping it off and if my SPS has rich, vibrant colors, I figure I'm at a good level. If I have an outbreak of cyano or dinoflagellates or pest algae and my SPS takes on a brownish cast but Hanna tells me I'm in range, I know it's lying to me. Time to replace PhosBan, assuming it's depleted and cut back on feeding a tiny bit until everything's back in line. If SPS get really pale/tan and corals start to look sickly and there's been no algae film to scrape off the glass for a week, I know there's not enough phosphates and up my feeding/amino acids and stop changing out filter floss until corals recover.

 

Hope that helps!

 

I have the Hanna low range test kit. I just got it the other day. Both times I have used it I needed to fill the 2nd vial with tank water and recalibrate since it turns off during the 2 minutes that you need to shake the mix in to the calibrated tank water vial. I calibrate with the 2nd vial then immediately put the 1st one back in for the test. 3 minutes later both times it reads 0.00.

 

This comes as a surprise to me as I feel I feed quite a bit so there should be good waste. Also, there is a type of algae that is brownish which occurs on the sand bed that is not disturbed by the snails and/or pistol shrimp/goby. There is also clear signs of other types of algae within the tank as well. Not much, but on some of the live rock. Since putting in the phosban I noticed that the glass no longer gets the film coat.

 

My Zoas, which at one point looked great, have lately been closing up. That was even before the phosban though.

 

My skimmer has decent skim, but at this point I would say my water is rather clean. Perhaps too clean?

[Polarcollision]

I have the Hanna low range test kit. I just got it the other day. Both times I have used it I needed to fill the 2nd vial with tank water and recalibrate since it turns off during the 2 minutes that you need to shake the mix in to the calibrated tank water vial. I calibrate with the 2nd vial then immediately put the 1st one back in for the test. 3 minutes later both times it reads 0.00.

 

This comes as a surprise to me as I feel I feed quite a bit so there should be good waste. Also, there is a type of algae that is brownish which occurs on the sand bed that is not disturbed by the snails and/or pistol shrimp/goby. There is also clear signs of other types of algae within the tank as well. Not much, but on some of the live rock. Since putting in the phosban I noticed that the glass no longer gets the film coat.

 

My Zoas, which at one point looked great, have lately been closing up. That was even before the phosban though.

 

My skimmer has decent skim, but at this point I would say my water is rather clean. Perhaps too clean?

 

Hmmm. What result do you get when you fill both vials with tank water, wait until the packet dissolves completely in vial 2, THEN use the vials in the machine? That should give you plenty of time to run the test. I also get more accurate results when I polish both vials with a microfiber cloth to remove water spots, oh, and also make sure there are no micro-bubbles in either vial. (The reading is based on light transmission differences between the vials)

 

I'm tempted to think it's lying to you, though you said you don't get film algae. How many days does it take to show on the glass? How long ago did you put the phosban in? Did the zoas start acting up after adding phosban?

 

Pics of the algae and also of the tank? I sometimes get a thin brown film on zoas that makes them close up and shrink away. Wondering if what you have going on is the same thing.

[Azedenkae]

If you have a good amount of bacteria, then with the skimming as well, it is entirely possible that your tank is too clean. How are you feeding the Zoas anyways? They don't always easily catch the same food that your fish and shrimp can catch. Especially when your skimmer is skimming out organics.

 

But yeah, the question is what and how much are you feeding?

[NYfishies]

Guys,

 

Thanks so much for the help thus far. I am going to run a full set of tests this evening and then post the results as well as answers to your questions.