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Innovative Marine Aquariums

Anything for Cycleing?


Mathew18

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I have a small 10 gallon and i am fixing to start the cycle. It has a AC20 on the back of it just for some mechanicle filtration but i was wondering what i shoul have in there during the cylcling process?

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carbon would also help because you don't have anything to get the smell or small particles out of the water.



This is because you have nothing really to grab any of the bad things.

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Thanks. I thought about just using the carbon and let the rock do most of the work. i am wanting to do a "soft" cycle so i will be doing small water changes to help. wit the large spikes.

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I have always had larger tanks and usually just let things happen but I am impatient with his one as far as the cycling process is concerned. I may try and ghost feed a little bit and see what happens.

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Better yet, puree some seafood and spread it all over the tank. Kid you not, your ammonia will skyrocket, then your cycle will be done in like two seconds. :3 At least in terms of growing a large population of bacteria.

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Get a shrimp from the grocery store take about a third of it and throw it in the tank. It will decompose and regularly feed the multiplying bacteria.

 

And then add bio Spira or the like.

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  • 1 month later...

I tell everyone use bio spira. It'll speed your process us substantially.

I've used it twice and will continue to do so. This stuff works great.

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Sorry guys, I have yet to understand why the general advice is to add raw shrimp when cycling a tank... It seems that would 1) have the potential to foul the water and 2) introduce unnecessary bacteria into the system. I did this with my very first tank because of advice I got and it left me no better off (because I paid a premium and bought cured live rock) and also stinky water that I had to change out (oh, and an unhappy wife having a small apartment that smelled like rotten seafood).

 

Matthew, what are you starting with man? Clean (cured) dry rock? Dry rock with dead material on it (uncured)? Cured live rock or uncured live rock?

 

IMO what you start with decides what you do from there to get the cycle going... In other words running carbon, doing large water changes, or adding a shrimp are not "catch all" solutions!

 

Tell us what you're starting with and then maybe you'll get some answers that are useful...

 

For example if you bought cured live rock you don't have to do anything because your "cycle" is already established. If you have cured dry rock then add a bottled bacterial starter as mentioned and as long as you do it slowly and in a controlled manner you should be able to start stocking livestock. If you have uncured dry or live rock then there's likely enough dead stuff that you don't need to add anything else - you just wait for it to cure if it's uncured live rock and add a bottle of bacteria and wait for uncured dry rock...

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I used Dr. Tim's one and only as well. Good stuff and generally makes a tank cycles within 1-2 weeks.

 

Oh, and I'm super old school and used to be a cycle your tank the old school way type of guy. Dr. Tim's legit does work.

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Sorry guys, I have yet to understand why the general advice is to add raw shrimp when cycling a tank... It seems that would 1) have the potential to foul the water and 2) introduce unnecessary bacteria into the system. I did this with my very first tank because of advice I got and it left me no better off (because I paid a premium and bought cured live rock) and also stinky water that I had to change out (oh, and an unhappy wife having a small apartment that smelled like rotten seafood).

 

Matthew, what are you starting with man? Clean (cured) dry rock? Dry rock with dead material on it (uncured)? Cured live rock or uncured live rock?

 

IMO what you start with decides what you do from there to get the cycle going... In other words running carbon, doing large water changes, or adding a shrimp are not "catch all" solutions!

 

Tell us what you're starting with and then maybe you'll get some answers that are useful...

 

For example if you bought cured live rock you don't have to do anything because your "cycle" is already established. If you have cured dry rock then add a bottled bacterial starter as mentioned and as long as you do it slowly and in a controlled manner you should be able to start stocking livestock. If you have uncured dry or live rock then there's likely enough dead stuff that you don't need to add anything else - you just wait for it to cure if it's uncured live rock and add a bottle of bacteria and wait for uncured dry rock...

Well you are definitely right with the cured live rock. But in that case you aren't even going through a cycle, as the biological filtration system is ready to go from... the get go.

 

For a cycle though, which is where you are building up your bacterial population, then it is necessary to add a shrimp, or whatever organic material. Shrimps are just an easy suggestion because you can just go down to the local grocery to get some (hopefully) and costs like, a dollar.

 

For uncured live rock, a shrimp is not necessary, as there can be plenty of die-off to feed the bacteria. But a shrimp helps to boost up the amount of organics. Chances are that if there is die-off, an amount would have been drained away in the LFS's holding tank (depending on how it is stored). Also, if you think about it, die-off from live rock won't be much different from having a shrimp in. You'll get plenty of organics released, along with unnecessary (and beneficial) bacteria. So it is not as if a shrimp is anything bad. Yes it smells, but so would die-off if there was enough of it. I personally puree my seafood and spread it all over the tank. I find that distributing it evenly makes it smell less.

 

For uncured dry rock, there will be long dead detritus, so that's a good source of organics. Possibly. Just add bacteria. And that can be through some sort of commercial product, or why not just some seafood.

 

For cured dry rock, it is actually a neccessity to add more than just bacteria, because cured dry rock indicates that it is barren, and so what will feed the bacteria? It is a lot easier to just add seafood in. Bacteria + organics to feed 'em. Otherwise you won't get a cycle, as there is nothing to allow the bacteria to reproduce in large numbers.

 

That is basically why 'add a shrimp' is the go-to suggestion. It provides plenty of food for your beneficial bacteria (and other microbes actually), regardless of the case. It may be potentially dangerous as it can quickly bump up PANN (phosphate, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate), but during the cycle that doesn't really matter. Only if you have animals you definitely want to keep in there.

 

Note that I am using the term 'organics' quite loosely here to describe pretty much anything that comes out from an organism.

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Hey Azed, I think this OP has moved on, but definitely some good points to discuss.

 

For a cycle though, which is where you are building up your bacterial population, then it is necessary to add a shrimp, or whatever organic material. Shrimps are just an easy suggestion because you can just go down to the local grocery to get some (hopefully) and costs like, a dollar.

 

I think what you said here is key, however, what if instead of using a shrimp to add a source of organic waste we just slowly ramp up our livestock? Add a CUC, small fish, or whatever and feed it like normal. I agree that shrimps or fish food are cheap and easy, but if our goal is to introduce livestock it seems like an unnecessary step considering we already have the necessary bacterial populations. I think people are hesitant to do this because it seems too much like the antiquated method of using a hardy fish to cycle a tank. In practice though, if you follow the instructions of the starter you're using there shouldn't be any build up of toxic compounds in the aquarium. The exception to this would be using a bacterial booster as an excuse to introduce all your planned livestock on the same day you started the tank - that would not be a good idea at all. The idea is still to "ramp up" the bio load.

 

 

For cured dry rock, it is actually a neccessity to add more than just bacteria, because cured dry rock indicates that it is barren, and so what will feed the bacteria? It is a lot easier to just add seafood in. Bacteria + organics to feed 'em. Otherwise you won't get a cycle, as there is nothing to allow the bacteria to reproduce in large numbers.

Same thing... In the situation of cured dry rock (contains no organic material to break down), you have 2 options (simplified greatly here). You either add the waste first, or the more recently available option is to add the bacteria first. Typical methods for adding the waste first are to let nature take it's course and over many weeks/months eventually airborne dust and stuff will find it's way into the tank and initiate the cycle. The same theory is behind adding a shrimp (Add the source of organic waste and the bio-filter will come).

 

Option 2 is to add the bacteria first (bottled starter - assuming it's a sampled blend of autotrophic bacteria from the family nitrobacteraceae, a filter pad from an established tank, or a piece of cured LR). So now all that we have to do is match up the amount of waste being produced in the tank to the bio-filter's capacity. Since we don't know exactly what the capacity of the bio filter is, I think it's safe to start small and ramp up the amount of waste being produced or introduced into the tank. But as you know all our tanks are different so we make modifications to how we cycle our tanks. For example if I order fish online and to save on shipping I order 5 at a time. Well in that case if I have to add 5 fish to my tank at once I might consider dosing ammonia (or possibly a shrimp) to artificially raise the bio-filter's capacity so I don't overwhelm it by adding 5 fish at once.

 

Anyways, hopefully that explains what I meant earlier when I said that adding a shrimp isn't a catch all solution to cycling a tank.

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Hey Azed, I think this OP has moved on, but definitely some good points to discuss.

 

 

I think what you said here is key, however, what if instead of using a shrimp to add a source of organic waste we just slowly ramp up our livestock? Add a CUC, small fish, or whatever and feed it like normal. I agree that shrimps or fish food are cheap and easy, but if our goal is to introduce livestock it seems like an unnecessary step considering we already have the necessary bacterial populations. I think people are hesitant to do this because it seems too much like the antiquated method of using a hardy fish to cycle a tank. In practice though, if you follow the instructions of the starter you're using there shouldn't be any build up of toxic compounds in the aquarium. The exception to this would be using a bacterial booster as an excuse to introduce all your planned livestock on the same day you started the tank - that would not be a good idea at all. The idea is still to "ramp up" the bio load.

 

 

Same thing... In the situation of cured dry rock (contains no organic material to break down), you have 2 options (simplified greatly here). You either add the waste first, or the more recently available option is to add the bacteria first. Typical methods for adding the waste first are to let nature take it's course and over many weeks/months eventually airborne dust and stuff will find it's way into the tank and initiate the cycle. The same theory is behind adding a shrimp (Add the source of organic waste and the bio-filter will come).

 

Option 2 is to add the bacteria first (bottled starter - assuming it's a sampled blend of autotrophic bacteria from the family nitrobacteraceae, a filter pad from an established tank, or a piece of cured LR). So now all that we have to do is match up the amount of waste being produced in the tank to the bio-filter's capacity. Since we don't know exactly what the capacity of the bio filter is, I think it's safe to start small and ramp up the amount of waste being produced or introduced into the tank. But as you know all our tanks are different so we make modifications to how we cycle our tanks. For example if I order fish online and to save on shipping I order 5 at a time. Well in that case if I have to add 5 fish to my tank at once I might consider dosing ammonia (or possibly a shrimp) to artificially raise the bio-filter's capacity so I don't overwhelm it by adding 5 fish at once.

 

Anyways, hopefully that explains what I meant earlier when I said that adding a shrimp isn't a catch all solution to cycling a tank.

 

Mhm, though I think this would be good for those who drop by later anyways.

 

The thing here is that I disagree on the definition of 'necessary bacterial populations'. My definition of the 'necessary bacterial populations' is that there is enough to handle the bioload of live stock additions, be it 10 fish or 1 fish. Either way, it should handle it from the get go.

 

'Ramping up' means that the bacterial population has to adapt to the new bioload, which means that there are not enough bacteria. Which in my books, means that it is inadequate. And I wholeheartly disagree with subjecting fish or whatever to a situation where the biological filtration system is inadequate. Best case scenario, the bacterial load grows quickly, and is pretty high to start with. Most situations see elevated PANN for a while. Worst case scenario, the bacterial load was low to begin with, and the live stock is subjected to elevated PANN for too long and dies.

 

Either way, it is the unnecessary subjection of live stock to PANN. Which to me makes no sense.

 

I'd much rather establish a large amount of bacteria, capable of dealing with the bioload from the get go and NOT subject my live stock to unnecessary stress. :) But hey, that's just me.

 

My goal with a shrimp, or something similar, is to do just that. Provide plenty of sustenance to grow bacteria.

 

Then when I want to add live stock, it's as simple as testing the bacterial load via ghost-feeding. Through that, it is possible to see just how quickly the tank can deal with organic matter. If it is quick enough, then that means that there is enough bacteria in there. If there isn't, then that means more cycle time is necessary.

 

Either way, patience is key. I do not agree with adding live stock in and THEN establishing the biological filtration system. I believe in doing it BEFORE to prepare for additions. But to each their own.

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There are many different ways to do it. The 'ramp it up' way is a possibility as well, all I am saying is I prefer a way in which the tank is established before adding live stock, not after it. And I find growing a large amount of beneficial microbes using plenty of food is best.

 

Of course, that may not necessary include a shrimp. One can use commercial bacteria in a bottle and use fish food. Or die-off from rocks. Or whatever. So long as it reaches the end goal of establishing the tank, it's cool.

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Here's how I've don it the last two times. Add live sand, add my mixed water and Bio Spira, then add live rock within a day or two if not same day. I let it cycle with pumps and lights only for 4-6 weeks. Not a single loss in fish or inverts. Obviously since this works for me I'll continue to do it this way. You can add livestock within 1-2 weeks using this method based on testing.

 

To me patience is key to all aspects of this hobby.

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