Sudden death in tank

[s3thyd]

Hi,

 

I have had freshwater tanks for quite a while, but I thought I would try out a marine tank. I took an 8 gallon fluval ebi aquarium and filled it with live rock that had dried out (now dead I assume) and sand. I then filled it with saltwater from my LFS and put the mini power compact light that came with the tank and the filter which has good flow back in with the heater. I left it to cycle for 2 months. The tank looked good so I did a couple of water changes and went to the LFS to stock it. I bought 2 astrea snails, 3 hermits, a small coral frag (sorry don't know what), and a small skunk basslet and an aquarium bred clown. I put them all in and they seemed to be happy for about 3 weeks. I noticed there was more film on the top of the water, but assumed this was due to the new livestock and was doing weekly water changes that controlled it. Then 4 days ago I noticed the basslet was hiding a lot, which was unusual. I could still see him in the live rock, but he didn't come out. Two days ago I couldn't find him at all, and eventually saw him dead under the live rock using a flashlight. I can't get him out because of where he is without taking the whole tank apart. I also noticed the clown was sitting on the bottom of the tank basically resting on the sand and looking unwell. The next day, he was still doing this, but would come up for food. I did a 30% water change. Today I came home and he was dead. I don't have a test kit, which I imagine will be a criticism, and will be getting one before adding anything again. As of now I have the 2 snails, 3 hermits, and the coral, which all seem happy. Any thoughts on what I did wrong? Was this too much at once? Was this too much period? Is only using dry rock without a seed useless? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[DriftingNemo]

By adding all of that livestock in one go you've caused an ammonia spike which is what killed your fish. What kind of filtration do you have? Without testing your tank you won't know what kind of water conditions you have. Get your water tested ASAP and buy a test kit. The amount of livestock you added in your 8 gallon, I wouldn't even attempt adding in my 63 gallon all in one go. An 8 gallon is only suitable for 2 small fish (and that's pushing it). You have to tear the tank apart and remove the dead fish or else it will continue to decompose. Do you test your salinity very often? Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes but by the sound of it you need to learn more about this hobby. You can get a lot of help on this site, the members here would be more than happy to explain things to you. I don't suppose the fish store employees tempted you into buying your livestock all at once? A basic API Saltwater test kit doesn't cost too much, but it will save you money in the future.

 

Using dead rock or dry live rock is a preferred method by many people, this eliminates any risk of pests and other unwanted critters. You can use a tiny piece of live rock to seed the tank. Saltwater tanks require more attention than freshwater and marine fish are more sensitive to bad water conditions.

[cju84]

Need to test your parameters before adding anything. Should retest any time something looks off/abnormal as well.

[DriftingNemo]

Every reefer turns into a scientist. We have to learn about chemicals, bacteria and water parameters.

[aquageek]

Agree with all of the above. Also out of curiosity, what is your water source for your water changes? Salt water from the LFS, treated tap water, distilled water, ro/di water? If you don't have a refractometer for testing the salinity of your water I would consider getting one of those as well. Hydrometers are ok but can be quite inaccurate. Here is a link for a refractometer at a good price and comes with calibration fluid. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/refractometer-for-reading-salinity-with-calibration-fluid.html

[DriftingNemo]

Some people will tell you that using treated tap water is an absolute sin and that you will go to hell for it. But I ran a successful reef tank before that only used treated tap water...

[cju84]

Some people will tell you that using treated tap water is an absolute sin and that you will go to hell for it. But I ran a successful reef tank before that only used treated tap water...

 

If the levels/parameters are all good, no reason not to do that.

[aquageek]

Right - you can absolutely keep a tank with using treated tap water, it's just not easy lol. We just need to make sure that your source of water is good (mineral content may be too high), and that the salinity is good as well. Also when you top your tank off for evaporation you should always use fresh water (no salt) because the salt does not evaporate with the water.

[DriftingNemo]

I only had some slight algae in my old tank, but that wasn't too bad. I filled my new tank up with treated tap water, but I will be using RODI from my LFS for water changes.

[s3thyd]

Thanks for all the help! I have been using pre-mixed saltwater from the LFS for all my changes and RO water from the LFS for my top-ups. I have been testing the salinity using a swing arm hydrometer, and it has remained consistent, but I will look into a better one. I will most certainly get a testing kit and start using it. I guess I was just trying to save money, but I see the point considering it has already cost me the two fish. So what I am gathering from all the helpful feedback is that I need to test, and I added way too much all at once? And yes, DriftingNemo is right, the LFS did okay this, but I suppose that's in THEIR best interest, not mine or the fish...

 

Thanks again everyone!

[DriftingNemo]

Thanks for all the help! I have been using pre-mixed saltwater from the LFS for all my changes and RO water from the LFS for my top-ups. I have been testing the salinity using a swing arm hydrometer, and it has remained consistent, but I will look into a better one. I will most certainly get a testing kit and start using it. I guess I was just trying to save money, but I see the point considering it has already cost me the two fish. So what I am gathering from all the helpful feedback is that I need to test, and I added way too much all at once? And yes, DriftingNemo is right, the LFS did okay this, but I suppose that's in THEIR best interest, not mine or the fish...

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

Some fish stores only want to make a quick buck, my LFS actually care for their animals and customers. The fish get quarantined for 2 weeks before sale and you get genuine advice. To check if your hydrometer is accurate, bring down a sample of your water to the fish store and ask them to check the salinity with a refractometer. Then compare their results with the results from your hydrometer. By the time you get into this hobby, you will be a mad scientist who will be checking every parameter, which is perfectly normal for reefers.

[markalot]

Hi,

 

I have had freshwater tanks for quite a while, but I thought I would try out a marine tank. I took an 8 gallon fluval ebi aquarium and filled it with live rock that had dried out (now dead I assume) and sand. I then filled it with saltwater from my LFS and put the mini power compact light that came with the tank and the filter which has good flow back in with the heater. I left it to cycle for 2 months. The tank looked good so I did a couple of water changes and went to the LFS to stock it. I bought 2 astrea snails, 3 hermits, a small coral frag (sorry don't know what), and a small skunk basslet and an aquarium bred clown. I put them all in and they seemed to be happy for about 3 weeks. I noticed there was more film on the top of the water, but assumed this was due to the new livestock and was doing weekly water changes that controlled it. Then 4 days ago I noticed the basslet was hiding a lot, which was unusual. I could still see him in the live rock, but he didn't come out. Two days ago I couldn't find him at all, and eventually saw him dead under the live rock using a flashlight. I can't get him out because of where he is without taking the whole tank apart. I also noticed the clown was sitting on the bottom of the tank basically resting on the sand and looking unwell. The next day, he was still doing this, but would come up for food. I did a 30% water change. Today I came home and he was dead. I don't have a test kit, which I imagine will be a criticism, and will be getting one before adding anything again. As of now I have the 2 snails, 3 hermits, and the coral, which all seem happy. Any thoughts on what I did wrong? Was this too much at once? Was this too much period? Is only using dry rock without a seed useless? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Howdy,

 

I think there are still some things you need to go over to understand this.

 

First off, the "cycle" is shorthand for the development of bacteria on the live rock and in the sandbed that eat ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Filling a tank with saltwater and waiting 2 months means nothing, you ended up with soggy rocks. You have to have a source of ammonia to build the bacterial populations. Typically the way this is done is by using a small piece of live rock and letting the life on that rock slowly increase in numbers. Because this is producing a small amount of ammonia as waste your tank will cycle. Did you just leave this part out? Waiting 2 months is GOOD, as long as you have something to produce the waste.

 

Second mistake has been covered, but basically you only have enough bacteria to process the current waste in the tank. Adding more livestock slowly, one at a time, allows the bacteria a chance to catch up in population and you avoid to harsh of an ammonia buildup. It still happens though, even if unmeasurable, and to some extend the first fish in the tank will experience added stress from the less than perfect water quality.

 

Finally, the tap water crap. Using tap water is gambling that there is nothing in the tap water that will nuke your tank. I get angry when I hear someone say 'it works fine for me'. You'll here that a lot in this hobby.

 

Everything works fine, right up until the point it doesn't.

 

Tap water can contain all kinds of nasties that might take 6 months to a year to actually cause any issues. Again, it's a gamble. You might have perfect tap water, but finding out can be a painful experience, and it will change year to year, season to season, as the water company adjusts chemicals added to the tap water to combat various issues that might crop up with the supply.

 

Good luck with your tank, hope everything works out for the best!

[DriftingNemo]

For tanks with less sensitive species of fish and coral, tap water is ok. Once you move on to keeping SPS and LPS corals that require nothing but perfect water then tap water isn't an option. What a lot of people fail to understand is that some of us can't get access to RO or RODI water as easily as others. In my situation, the house I live in doesn't have a garden tap so therefore my RO unit is rendered as useless unless I use the washing machine outlet, I also don't drive which means that it's not that easy for me to carry 15 gallons of RODI water home. Luckily for me, I can now get access to RODI water. In the early days of reef keeping, people didn't have RODI units and had to use tap water. There's a lot of successful reef tanks that use tap water. By all means, if you can get access to RODI water then you should.

[markalot]

For tanks with less sensitive species of fish and coral, tap water is ok. Once you move on to keeping SPS and LPS corals that require nothing but perfect water then tap water isn't an option. What a lot of people fail to understand is that some of us can't get access to RO or RODI water as easily as others. In my situation, the house I live in doesn't have a garden tap so therefore my RO unit is rendered as useless unless I use the washing machine outlet, I also don't drive which means that it's not that easy for me to carry 15 gallons of RODI water home. Luckily for me, I can now get access to RODI water. In the early days of reef keeping, people didn't have RODI units and had to use tap water. There's a lot of successful reef tanks that use tap water. By all means, if you can get access to RODI water then you should.

 

It may be because you have no choice, which is fine, but don't give bad advice to others telling them it will be fine. It works for you, so far, with YOUR tap water supply.

 

Some people will tell you that using treated tap water is an absolute sin and that you will go to hell for it. But I ran a successful reef tank before that only used treated tap water...

 

That was bad advice and showed a complete lack of understanding as to why tap water can be dangerous. I'm happy it worked out for you, but your experience with tap water does not apply to anyone else.

[farkwar]

You need buy a keyboard that has one of these....

 

http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/RichardSperry/media/enter-key.jpeg.html'>

[DriftingNemo]

It may be because you have no choice, which is fine, but don't give bad advice to others telling them it will be fine. It works for you, so far, with YOUR tap water supply.

 

 

 

That was bad advice and showed a complete lack of understanding as to why tap water can be dangerous. I'm happy it worked out for you, but your experience with tap water does not apply to anyone else.

 

I've never heard of a case where fish have died from the use of treated tap water. If tap water is so bad in your area where it isn't actually safe to use in aquarium conditions once treated with dechlor, then it shouldn't be safe for human use either.