erinwillett Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Was using paper strips during the week, and trusting my LFS during the weekends for water tests. Just got my own liquid kit and nitrates were off the charts, 160ppm. I have a 12 gallon AIO, fish (clown, RG Basslet, and damsel), Inverts (turbo, two hermits), and corals (shrooms, GSP, xenia, torch) all doing well. Duncan isn't fully opening, but I think that may be due to the clown messing with it plus the flow. In any event, I changed 5 gallons (LFS saltwater, RO plus Reef Crystal) last night, didn't lower nitrates. I also removed the bio balls last night as I read they can do more harm than good. I rinsed my sponge in some RO water. Also added a bag of purigen. This morning, mixed my own RO water (from LFS) and Reef Crystals, changed another 5 gallons. Now I'm looking at 80ppm. Everything in the tank looks the same, I keep doing the entire test to be sure, everything else looks in good shape except the nitrates. I only fed maybe 8 NLS pellets today as I haven't for a couple of days. Is my best course of action more WC this week? Any tips or guidance is appreciated, I'm a noob majorly stressing out. Link to comment
xiaoxiy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just keep up the water changes. Heck, if you wanted to, you could even do a 70-90% WC as long as you matched salinity and temp. That would put a massive dent on your nitrates. Link to comment
Azedenkae Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Have you tried measuring nitrates just before and after a water change? Would be interesting just how much change there is with a water change, and perhaps if it's because of the new water being used, or just that nitrates rise quickly. Btw, after having removed the bioballs, what are the filter media that you have? Link to comment
erinwillett Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just keep up the water changes. Heck, if you wanted to, you could even do a 70-90% WC as long as you matched salinity and temp. That would put a massive dent on your nitrates. Ok, working on another batch of 5 gallons now. Thanks for your help! Have you tried measuring nitrates just before and after a water change? Would be interesting just how much change there is with a water change, and perhaps if it's because of the new water being used, or just that nitrates rise quickly. Btw, after having removed the bioballs, what are the filter media that you have? I did, the level decreased by about half, but still way too high. I removed the bio balls, but I have a huge sponge and there are ceramic rings that I rinsed and put back. I added a bag of Purigen. I was going to buy filter floss, but I hadn't researched enough yet so i didn't pull the trigger. Thanks for helping me out! Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 This is a very common problem in reef tanks. Nitrate reduction with water changes is only temporarily effective in most cases as the nitrate will very often rise quickly again within a day or three. The culprit is the substrate and how it is (or isn't) managed. How long has the tank been running? Do you regularly remove detritis from the sand bed (assuming you have one)? Link to comment
erinwillett Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 This is a very common problem in reef tanks. Nitrate reduction with water changes is only temporarily effective in most cases as the nitrate will very often rise quickly again within a day or three. The culprit is the substrate and how it is (or isn't) managed. How long has the tank been running? Do you regularly remove detritis from the sand bed (assuming you have one)? Tank has been going (after initial cycle) since April 2014. Seven months. I stir the sand and blow off the top of it and the rock with a turkey baster from time to time. I feel that I move it around frequently to adjust and move rock and coral. I also have two hermits, a turbo, and a nassarius snail. I've seen a couple bristle worms and there are countless brittle stars I see during feeding. Because of that I thought the sand was maintaining itself? It doesn't look dirty to me, I don't feed enough for anything to be sitting stagnant on the bed. I really only feed a little every two-three days. If it's necessary to lower my nitrates I can just add it to my maintenance routine. Thanks for helping out! Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 In small nano tanks the optimal functioning of the sand bed/live rock is especially important due to the (usually) higher ratio of livestock to water volume. I see that you have a bunch of products in the tank to try and tackle this issue, but when a tank is well balanced, sand bed and live rock is really all that's needed when maintained properly. Ideally, what you want is a method whereby nitrification and denitrification occur effectively/efficiently in close proximity to one another. This way, excess ammonia, ntrite and nitrate are dealt with and nitate is converted to mostly nitrous oxide which then vents back into the atmosphere. A sand bed of moderate depth (1 - 2") that is relatively clear of detritus does this very efficiently as does live rock that is not clogged with detritus. I've had two major bouts of high (30 ppm) nitrates in my 6-1/2 year old 12g: one was after 10 - 12 months when I tried the 'no touching the sand bed' method and the other was when a pellet feeder overfed for 2 weeks while I was on vacation. In both cases, WCs alone were nearly useless, but when coupled with weekly sand bed vacuuming of a small section each week as well as live rock 'basting', nitrates were dropped to 1-2 within less than 1 1/2 months and down to '0' in a few weeks more. Today, I control nitrate and phosphate with just proper maintenance (no chemical or mechanical filtration) and they consistently test '0' with Salifert test kits. If you are interested, the details are here: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/327364-maintenance-and-the-nano-reef-tank/ Oh, and of great importance, don't try and remove all media right away. Remove only small amounts every few weeks which will allow bacteria at other sites to multiply sufficiently to adequately deal with nitrification cycle products. Link to comment
thomas8man Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I could also add in that you could get Seachem Prime it does a lot of the chemical process of breaking down the nitrates and nitrite. How thick is your sand bed ? Link to comment
erinwillett Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I could also add in that you could get Seachem Prime it does a lot of the chemical process of breaking down the nitrates and nitrite. How thick is your sand bed ? I'd say 1.5-2 inches. Link to comment
thomas8man Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'd say 1.5-2 inches. Yeah so that isn't deep enough for you get nitrates too much but SeaChem prime for me works like god for me. Link to comment
Fishgirl2393 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 is the kit perhaps a API kit? Mine read that high and I got a different kit (which I then backed up with yet another kit) that showed the API was way off (mine was off the charts on API but only 10ppm or so with both the new kits). Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 is the kit perhaps a API kit? Mine read that high and I got a different kit (which I then backed up with yet another kit) that showed the API was way off (mine was off the charts on API but only 10ppm or so with both the new kits). I was wondering the same thing about API. It always seems to test higher and higher as the bottle gets used up and I always make sure to shake it very well before use. Link to comment
cju84 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If you're using an API kit, I'd try another brand. Mine also show high (20-40ppm) but my corals/fish have been just fine. You should also test the water you use that goes into your water changes (make sure your source of RO/DI or distilled water actually show 0ppm). Link to comment
erinwillett Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 is the kit perhaps a API kit? Mine read that high and I got a different kit (which I then backed up with yet another kit) that showed the API was way off (mine was off the charts on API but only 10ppm or so with both the new kits). I was wondering the same thing about API. It always seems to test higher and higher as the bottle gets used up and I always make sure to shake it very well before use. If you're using an API kit, I'd try another brand. Mine also show high (20-40ppm) but my corals/fish have been just fine. Well, shoot. Yes it's API. Guess I'll need to order something different. Any recommendations? Just wasted $40, gotta love this hobby. Link to comment
Fishgirl2393 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 With source water, my nitrates showed 0 but it seemed like if there was ANY nitrate in the water, it showed WAY higher than it was. I kept freaking out even thought everything in the tank was healthy and I finally just got a new kit and had another person do a test to confirm the new kit. I got a Seachem test kit but Salifert and Red Sea are both good. My Seachem works great and matches exactly what the other two listed say (I've checked). The seachem also comes with a sample of reference solution to make sure the kit is testing correctly (has a known value). Link to comment
thomas8man Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well, shoot. Yes it's API. Guess I'll need to order something different. Any recommendations? Just wasted $40, gotta love this hobby. yeah it is hard my API i always shake for a minute before testing i also use seachem test kits and they are more expensive but more accurate Link to comment
erinwillett Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Update: I'm an idiot. Forgot I bought a pom pom crab because I saw him ONE time in the tank. I assumed he died, but life happened and I never got a chance to look for him. What was left of him showed up in the tank yesterday. I'm sure this was the reason for my nitrate problem. RIP Link to comment
cju84 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Try to remove as much as possible and do a water change. Maybe a couple 50% changes over the next week. 75-100% if you're feeling a little crazy. Link to comment
aquariumlover10 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Do 2 25% pwc every day for 2 days so a total of 100% and it should lower nitrates by 80% at leastm Link to comment
markalot Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Well, shoot. Yes it's API. Guess I'll need to order something different. Any recommendations? Just wasted $40, gotta love this hobby. Howdy, Slow down a second. Don't just do something, stand there! Salifert makes good kits, start with them to get accurate tests for KH, Calcium, Nitrate, and Phosphate. I don't believe your Nitrate test but if it's true and all fish and corals are fine then do nothing except more research into the problem. Removing all the bioballs at once is EXTREMELY risky and this kind of action is something you never want to do in reefing. If the bioballs were producing most of the nitrate then they were acting as the biofilter and if you removed them you are probably going to experience a mini cycle if not worse. At a minimum purchase distilled water and mix your own salt, fish store RO is notorious for being absolute crap unless they can show you their RO/DI filter AND a TDS reading of 0 out of the DI. I know one store around here that will gladly do that to prove the quality of their water. Hopefully you haven't screwed up the tank. If everything looks ok I would stop doing anything for now and confirm testing before moving forward. Link to comment
aquariumlover10 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Oh, your using api? The api tests always have high nitrate, mine usally shows 80ppm or so but all fish are fine, this is with a fw test btw. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Update: I'm an idiot. Forgot I bought a pom pom crab because I saw him ONE time in the tank. I assumed he died, but life happened and I never got a chance to look for him. What was left of him showed up in the tank yesterday. I'm sure this was the reason for my nitrate problem. RIP Sorry for the loss. Your nitrates were probably never at 160ppm though. I'm pretty sure API are bad for nitrate test after doing more research. You would definitely have seen signs of stress in the fish and corals. Usually above 40ppm and you will start seeing ill effects. I would just continue doing normal water changes or maybe a couple extra 25% changes and ask the LFS to test nitrates for you so you won't have to buy an expensive kit. Link to comment
thomas8man Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What are stats on the tank ? Link to comment
Paandemonium Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You can cheat and use de-nitrate Link to comment
Mariaface Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 You can cheat and use de-nitrate Yehp! Basically added live rock, and much better than bio-balls or whatever. But it does need to be kept clear of detritus. :] Link to comment
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