APPROPRIATE NON-RO/DI WATER FOR TANK TOP-UP

[JerseyFireShrimp]

Hi everyone. I would like your opinions on the best water to use, other than RO/DI, for the regular topping-up of your tank. I'm going to start a 30-40 gal reef tank soon, and there's a lot I need to find out.

My situation is somewhat unique because I don't really have the extra money, or space, for a RO/DI unit and the attendant water and chemical containers. I'm disabled and I just can't be lugging heavy water jugs around. In addition, I don't drive, so I can't go somewhere to pick-up already made RO/DI water.

I'm looking for an alternative. I've already contacted two "experts". One told me that I should investigate having RO/DI water delivered to my house every month or two. The other said plain bottled water, like Poland Spring, was fine to use. What do you think? Thanks. Jeff

[CronicReefer]

Distilled water is probably the best alternative. I just grab 5 gallons at Wal-Mart once a week for my water change.

[FlowerMama]

Yep. Wally World, .99 a gallon

[Tenor]

Have them deliver distill water is the best choice for you.

[farkwar]

Distilled.

 

Dollar per gallon at Walmart.

 

Water.com, thats Alhambra here, delivers 5 gallon jugs distilled for like $6.

 

You need to give deposit for bottles, which are like $23 if you buy new.

 

I wouldnt buy LFS mixed salt water if thats what you do, so I wonder why top off water is different than what you mix with.

 

The Poland Water guy is no expert, hes a doofus.Dont take advice from him any more.

 

If I were disabled, a water change mixing station would be way easier than bottled.Just put a pump on the containers, and hose the water in and out.You can move a hose, cant you?Norwesco makes all different size food grade water containers. Put a pump on the outlet bulkhead, or have a contractor build your station up high, use gravity.

 

Making clean water is foundational to this hobby, if you cant buy or make clean water youre not serious, about it.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

Distilled water is probably the best alternative. I just grab 5 gallons at Wal-Mart once a week for my water change.

Hi. I just saw and commented on your lovely 29 gal mixed-reef tank. Using the distilled water for top-up is certainly an inexpensive solution. Do you do any additional filtering before you put it in your tank? Do you happen to know what the typical TDS level is for distilled water? Thanks. Jeff

 

Yep. Wally World, .99 a gallon

OK. Can I buy it on-line? Thanks. Jeff

 

Have them deliver distill water is the best choice for you.

Thanks. I live in NJ. Do you happen to know where I can go to get the distilled water delivered to my home? Jeff

 

Distilled.

 

Dollar per gallon at Walmart.

 

Water.com, thats Alhambra here, delivers 5 gallon jugs distilled for like $6.

 

You need to give deposit for bottles, which are like $23 if you buy new.

 

I wouldnt buy LFS mixed salt water if thats what you do, so I wonder why top off water is different than what you mix with.

 

The Poland Water guy is no expert, hes a doofus.Dont take advice from him any more.

 

If I were disabled, a water change mixing station would be way easier than bottled.Just put a pump on the containers, and hose the water in and out.You can move a hose, cant you?Norwesco makes all different size food grade water containers. Put a pump on the outlet bulkhead, or have a contractor build your station up high, use gravity.

 

Making clean water is foundational to this hobby, if you cant buy or make clean water youre not serious, about it.

Thanks a lot. I intend to use Nutri-Seawater to fill my tank and to use for water changes. It comes in 2.2 and 4.4 gal jugs. What kind of pump would I use for the water change mixing station?

[MadReefer13]

i would just get the rodi the distilled is really gonna kill your pocket. I'm running a 20 long on distilled and my god is it horrible at least five to ten bucks a week.think about that and think how much a filter is way cheaper in long run.what the refurb specupure(sp) is only 125 i think.. i'm saving as i speak to get a rodi so can stop hauling water and save also

and if you need it delivered way dang more gotta get the rodi system man gonna be way better and its right there in your house so you never have to worry if they are gonna be on time or not just my 2 cents

Hi. I just saw and commented on your lovely 29 gal mixed-reef tank. Using the distilled water for top-up is certainly an inexpensive solution. Do you do any additional filtering before you put it in your tank? Do you happen to know what the typical TDS level is for distilled water? Thanks. Jeff

OK. Can I buy it on-line? Thanks. Jeff

Thanks. I live in NJ. Do you happen to know where I can go to get the distilled water delivered to my home? Jeff

Thanks a lot. I intend to use Nutri-Seawater to fill my tank and to use for water changes. It comes in 2.2 and 4.4 gal jugs. What kind of pump would I use for the water change mixing station?

.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

i would just get the rodi the distilled is really gonna kill your pocket. I'm running a 20 long on distilled and my god is it horrible at least five to ten bucks a week.think about that and think how much a filter is way cheaper in long run.what the refurb specupure(sp) is only 125 i think.. i'm saving as i speak to get a rodi so can stop hauling water and save also

 

and if you need it delivered way dang more gotta get the rodi system man gonna be way better and its right there in your house so you never have to worry if they are gonna be on time or not just my 2 cents

 

.

I can't. As I said, I'm disabled and wouldn't be able to get into the room where the unit would have to be and manipulate it and the water jugs without great difficulty. I think I could get one of my neighbors to get distilled water from the local super market, though. That would be easiest for me.

$5-$10 a week seems like a lot to top-up a 20 gal tank. How much water are you losing per day?

[MadReefer13]

you have to do water change also and some days up to a gal in evap

[JerseyFireShrimp]

you have to do water change also and some days up to a gal in evap

A gallon a day evaporation seems like a lot. Does your tank have an open top? If you're using the distilled water for your water changes too, I guess the RO/DI unit would be best for you. I intend to use the Nutri-Seawater stuff. It's live seawater and has all of the trace minerals and salt already in it, so, even though it's fairly expensive, I eliminate the cost of having to spend money on powdered chemicals to add to regular water. It's really what a person prefers that matters.

[MadReefer13]

Oooo i get ya sorry i missed the part about the water your using for WC....and yes i run open top with fans on in the room(not directly on the tank tho).other then that ive been using walmarts water it actualy only 88cents here and it works wonderful no algae.also we have a store called safeway same price on water if you have them around also no problems with there water..just watchout some of them use copper in there water systems...

 

A gallon a day evaporation seems like a lot. Does your tank have an open top? If you're using the distilled water for your water changes too, I guess the RO/DI unit would be best for you. I intend to use the Nutri-Seawater stuff. It's live seawater and has all of the trace minerals and salt already in it, so, even though it's fairly expensive, I eliminate the cost of having to spend money on powdered chemicals to add to regular water. It's really what a person prefers that matters.

[CronicReefer]

Hi. I just saw and commented on your lovely 29 gal mixed-reef tank. Using the distilled water for top-up is certainly an inexpensive solution. Do you do any additional filtering before you put it in your tank? Do you happen to know what the typical TDS level is for distilled water? Thanks. Jeff

High quality distilled should be 0TDS but this is hard to find. I have no problems with algae outbreaks from using distilled from Wal-Mart but the real reason to use distilled is that it contains no minerals or chlorine unlike drinking or spring water. I have no lid and only experience about 0.25gal of evap per day on my 29gal. Sometimes less or more depending on humidity or if I'm running the heater more.

[farkwar]

I want enough water to do a 100% change if needed. Re: Oregon Reef Crash.

 

40 gallon tank requires a 40 gallon tank. Norwesco brand is what I went with, 50 gallon. I should have 2.

 

If you have 40-50 gallons of your Nutriwater on hand at all times, thats the same.

 

So I would get just one tank for RODI. 25g should be fine, you want to make at least 25 gallons per RODI run.

 

Then a hose long enough to your toilet or drain from tank, 1/2" with an MJ 1200 should be fine for that. Unless your pumping upstairs or something, then you need a real pump that can handle 25 feet of head.

 

Then a hose long enough from your RODI tank to your ATO reservoir.

 

Figure your head pressure, and get a pump that can handle that. I bet a 1/2" hose and MJ1200 would be fine for that.

 

Dont even need to plumb that, just drop the pump in the tank, run the hose.

 

But like I said Water.com will deliver jugs of distilled water for like $6 per 5 gallon jug. You could rig the MJ1200 to just suck from that jug to your ATO. Avoid making water yourself, and that cost. Get a handheld TDS meter, if its not ZERO, have them take it back and get you a new one.

 

Poland is owned by Nestle, I highly doubt they cant deliver distilled water to you for cheap. They may even be Water.com in your part of the country. Nestle owns like 4 dozen+ water distributors across the country. They most likely own Alhambra Water over here.

[farkwar]

Google Steve West Oregon Reef.

 

He had one of the best reefs in the US. Well known. Revered and copied.

 

Something messed up with his system and it was minus 200 gallons of water. Corals, huge SPS colonies sticking out in the air.

 

Which they can handle for quite awhile, actually.

 

He paniced, didnt have enough water made or stored for back up. Topped it off with 200 gallons of 'conditioned' tap water.

 

Wiped the whole system in a matter of hours, years to build.

 

Moral of the story, have enough water for a 100% water change. It could be for that. Coral war. Anemone going through a power head. Flatworm exit fubar. Jedi Potassium OverLoad. Whatever.

[Tamberav]

I can't. As I said, I'm disabled and wouldn't be able to get into the room where the unit would have to be and manipulate it and the water jugs without great difficulty. I think I could get one of my neighbors to get distilled water from the local super market, though. That would be easiest for me.

$5-$10 a week seems like a lot to top-up a 20 gal tank. How much water are you losing per day?

 

You can get a faucet adapter and just keep it hooked up in the bathroom/ kicthen sink. That is how I have mine. Then you can get extra long RO tubing and have it run to wherever the container is easiest... even next to your tank where you could just pump it up with a small powerhead after it is mixed.

 

Just be sure to set up a timer or something to remember to turn it off before it overflows.

 

 

I would think an RODI would be easier than trying to reliably get water delivered.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

Oooo i get ya sorry i missed the part about the water your using for WC....and yes i run open top with fans on in the room(not directly on the tank tho).other then that ive been using walmarts water it actualy only 88cents here and it works wonderful no algae.also we have a store called safeway same price on water if you have them around also no problems with there water..just watchout some of them use copper in there water systems...

Yeah. I think the open top with the fans in the room is responsible for a lot of evaporation in your set-up. I'm probably going to go with the Coralife BioCube 29. It has a closed top design that's more suitable for me. The downside is that I'm pretty much locked-in to the lights they have in the hood. That's OK, but I won't be able to have any SPS corals in my tank because there just won't be enough light.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

High quality distilled should be 0TDS but this is hard to find. I have no problems with algae outbreaks from using distilled from Wal-Mart but the real reason to use distilled is that it contains no minerals or chlorine unlike drinking or spring water. I have no lid and only experience about 0.25gal of evap per day on my 29gal. Sometimes less or more depending on humidity or if I'm running the heater more.

Thanks for the distilled water info. I think that's the way I'm going to go for the top-ups. Then I'll use the Nutri-SeaWater for the water changes. The .25 gal-per-day evaporation rate for your 29 gal tank is about what I thought it should be. Do you top-up every day, or wait until the level drops by a gallon or so?

 

Google Steve West Oregon Reef.

 

He had one of the best reefs in the US. Well known. Revered and copied.

 

Something messed up with his system and it was minus 200 gallons of water. Corals, huge SPS colonies sticking out in the air.

 

Which they can handle for quite awhile, actually.

 

He paniced, didnt have enough water made or stored for back up. Topped it off with 200 gallons of 'conditioned' tap water.

 

Wiped the whole system in a matter of hours, years to build.

 

Moral of the story, have enough water for a 100% water change. It could be for that. Coral war. Anemone going through a power head. Flatworm exit fubar. Jedi Potassium OverLoad. Whatever.

That's a sad story. He probably never fully recovered from that shock. Good point about having enough water for a 100% water change.

[CronicReefer]

Thanks for the distilled water info. I think that's the way I'm going to go for the top-ups. Then I'll use the Nutri-SeaWater for the water changes. The .25 gal-per-day evaporation rate for your 29 gal tank is about what I thought it should be. Do you top-up every day, or wait until the level drops by a gallon or so?

I top off throughout the day if I can but I always do it at least once per day because I have to dose for alkalinity and sometimes I add trace elements and vitamins for my corals.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

I want enough water to do a 100% change if needed. Re: Oregon Reef Crash.

 

40 gallon tank requires a 40 gallon tank. Norwesco brand is what I went with, 50 gallon. I should have 2.

 

If you have 40-50 gallons of your Nutriwater on hand at all times, thats the same.

 

So I would get just one tank for RODI. 25g should be fine, you want to make at least 25 gallons per RODI run.

 

Then a hose long enough to your toilet or drain from tank, 1/2" with an MJ 1200 should be fine for that. Unless your pumping upstairs or something, then you need a real pump that can handle 25 feet of head.

 

Then a hose long enough from your RODI tank to your ATO reservoir.

 

Figure your head pressure, and get a pump that can handle that. I bet a 1/2" hose and MJ1200 would be fine for that.

 

Dont even need to plumb that, just drop the pump in the tank, run the hose.

 

But like I said Water.com will deliver jugs of distilled water for like $6 per 5 gallon jug. You could rig the MJ1200 to just suck from that jug to your ATO. Avoid making water yourself, and that cost. Get a handheld TDS meter, if its not ZERO, have them take it back and get you a new one.

 

Poland is owned by Nestle, I highly doubt they cant deliver distilled water to you for cheap. They may even be Water.com in your part of the country. Nestle owns like 4 dozen+ water distributors across the country. They most likely own Alhambra Water over here.

Thanks for all of the information, but I'm a little confused. Why would I need a RO/DI tank? I won't be making any RO/DI water, right? Do you mean a tank to dump the fresh distilled water into before it goes into my display tank? But, later on, you say that I could pump the fresh water directly from the 5-gal distilled water bottles. But then it would be pure fresh water going into the display tank-25 gallons of it. That wouldn't work. Do you mean a 25-gal tank to hold distilled water that I've added a salt/chemical powder to in order to make fresh sea water? My head is spinning. Sorry.

The Nutri-SeaWater has a shelf-life of 12 months. I could just get 6 jugs of that-26.4 gals total-and cycle it when I do my normal water change every two weeks, or as necessary. The problem is that each 4.4-gal bottle costs about $25.

I don't know. I'll have to ponder this.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

You can get a faucet adapter and just keep it hooked up in the bathroom/ kicthen sink. That is how I have mine. Then you can get extra long RO tubing and have it run to wherever the container is easiest... even next to your tank where you could just pump it up with a small powerhead after it is mixed.

 

Just be sure to set up a timer or something to remember to turn it off before it overflows.

 

 

I would think an RODI would be easier than trying to reliably get water delivered.

I appreciate the comment, but I hadn't wanted to have an RO/DI unit. The purpose of my post was to try and find an alternative to that for tank top-ups. Am I missing something in what you meant? If so, I'm sorry.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

I top off throughout the day if I can but I always do it at least once per day because I have to dose for alkalinity and sometimes I add trace elements and vitamins for my corals.

Oh. Yes. I forgot about the trace elements and stuff for the coral. Have you thought about using an automatic doser? I don't really know anything about them, but I saw a couple of YouTube videos where folks used them. Another expense, though.

Would you tell me more about your corals and what you dose them with?

OH NO! The cat ate your fish??!! I'm really sorry. By the way, wasn't that a Ruby Red Dragonette, rather than a blenny? I thought he was cool after I saw him, so I looked him up in my fish book, and it said he was a dragonette. Does it have two names?

 

OH. I'm really surprised that you have a Debelius' Reef Lobster in a 29-gal tank. How cool! I'd love to have one. But don't you have trouble with him going after your other fish?

[AZDesertRat]

You should not need to dose anything, a good salt mix will contain everything the corals need and at the correct levels. There may come a day in the way distant future if your tank is very heavily stocked with LPS and SPS corals where a good salt mix and normal water changes won't keep up but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

Dosing can get you in trouble if you are not doing regular testing so you know your demand and correct dosages. Many get caught up in all those bottled snake oils the LFs sells when most of what is in them isn't even necessary for coral growth at all. Stick with calcium, alkalinity and magnesium which is in your salt and monitor those levels once you start adding lots of stony corals so you ca nsee if water changes are keeping up.

[JerseyFireShrimp]

You should not need to dose anything, a good salt mix will contain everything the corals need and at the correct levels. There may come a day in the way distant future if your tank is very heavily stocked with LPS and SPS corals where a good salt mix and normal water changes won't keep up but I wouldn't worry about that for now.

Dosing can get you in trouble if you are not doing regular testing so you know your demand and correct dosages. Many get caught up in all those bottled snake oils the LFs sells when most of what is in them isn't even necessary for coral growth at all. Stick with calcium, alkalinity and magnesium which is in your salt and monitor those levels once you start adding lots of stony corals so you ca nsee if water changes are keeping up.

Hi. Were you responding to me, or "CronicReefer"? I'm still trying to sort-out how these notifications work. It seems like CronicReefer does dose. I don't have a tank yet, so I'm not dosing-obviously. I guess dosing is like just about everything in this hobby, a matter of hotly-contended opinions. I'm trying hard to separate the good and true information from the rest, but it's not easy because I know so little right now and there's so much to learn and consider.

Thanks for the information.

[CronicReefer]

Oh. Yes. I forgot about the trace elements and stuff for the coral. Have you thought about using an automatic doser? I don't really know anything about them, but I saw a couple of YouTube videos where folks used them. Another expense, though.

Would you tell me more about your corals and what you dose them with?

OH NO! The cat ate your fish??!! I'm really sorry. By the way, wasn't that a Ruby Red Dragonette, rather than a blenny? I thought he was cool after I saw him, so I looked him up in my fish book, and it said he was a dragonette. Does it have two names?

 

OH. I'm really surprised that you have a Debelius' Reef Lobster in a 29-gal tank. How cool! I'd love to have one. But don't you have trouble with him going after your other fish?

A lot of people use auto top off systems I just don't have the need for one. The fish I had is considered a dragonet but a lot of times they are labeled as a scooter, I don't recommend getting one to begin with cause they are sometimes difficult when it comes to keeping them fed. I started dosing trace elements and vitamins because I noticed my SPS colors were graying out due to a bit of carbon overuse but they are getting better since I've started. The lobster stays in his cave 90% of the day since he is nocturnal but they are reef safe as long as they stay well fed. The tank may be a little small for him right now since he is about 4 inches long but I plan to upgrade to a 55 gallon long tank in about 6-8 months. They are not known to eat corals which is a + and he seems to be careful about walking around my frags. They are scavengers but have tendancy to start hunting inverts and small fish due to lack of easy to find food so I'm making sure to drop some meaty food in front of his cave every day to avoid this.

[BulkRate]

I'm confused - on one hand you're talking about limiting expense, but on the other buying a premixed branded saltwater rather than mixing in-house. You're talking about physical access concerns and limitations, but somehow expecting on manipulating 5 gallon bottles (or 5 one gallon bottles) out of & in to a tank on a weekly basis. Do you have someone performing a "helping hands service" or am I simply dense and missing something? (either are an equal possibility).

 

Don't get me wrong - you're doing the right things in the right order, though - this hobby is MUCH more rewarding and manageable if basic questions are asked BEFORE starting. I do NOT mean to discourage you... far from it!

 

Farkwar's right - if lugging around jugs of water isn't practical/possible for you AND you're insistent on having this hobby, clever plumbing ahead of time is a game-changer. A few hoses or formed runs of rigid tubing and a spare pump + artfully concealed 1-5 gallon bucket can eliminate most heavy lifting.

 

Other ideas come to mind: (although you state you don't want one, for the size tank you're planning it pretty much becomes a must-have piece of hardware) a RODI set up in a laundry room/under a sink + a couple hours of a plumber's time to run a tap line from the output to somewhere near the tank. At $3-5 a week it's going to pay for itself (and filter changes) withing the first year or two, even if you only use it for top off.

 

EDIT: and just to answer your stated question - you COULD try something like a ZeroWater filter pitcher for your top-off needs, depending on the quality of the tap water in your region (i.e. no chloramine use, sub 75ppm TDS). I ran my tank completely off one for the first couple of years - it worked fine until I had a bloom of dinoflagelates/calothrix/SOMETHING and switched to distilled as part of the shotgun cure. I still use it for top-off from time to time when I don't have any distilled handy.

 

Oh, and welcome to Nano-Reef!