Ich on...Ich off.....Ich on....

[bevo5]

Hey all - so I've got something weird going on.

 

Three weeks ago I got a coral beauty to add to my freshly cycled (fully cycled) tank. I wont get into whether the coral beauty was a bad idea, but I now know it probably was.

 

Anyway - I've also got a clown fish and a leopard wrasse. All three eat and act normal. All good.

 

But about a week ago I noticed a few little dots on the CB. Just a couple. Could have even been micro bubbles.

 

I've researched and researched and here is how I decided to attack it as ich: started feeding garlic soaked food, slapped on a UV, more frequent changes. I can't treat the tank because of the corals....

 

So the next day - no ich. The spores must have popped off and were multiplying.

Two days later - lots of ich. Probably 30 dots - only on the CB.

Today - no ich. All gone.

 

I can't imagine that the spores are timing out exactly the same at this point so I can't figure out why it will appear and then go away completely. I do have a cleaner shrimp in there and I have seen him cleaning the CB before. Maybe he's handling it?

 

The CB is eating, I'm still doing garlic. I just can't rip the tank apart to get him out.

 

And yes - I realize that I can't have fish in there for 6-8weeks. But I am hoping to help get them through it now as well.

 

My experience with freshwater ich has always been nice and easy - jack up the temp, throw some quick cure in there if it gets bad, and wait it out. Am I going to just be stuck in this cycle of ich coming and going.....?

 

[jedimasterben]

You're perfectly describing the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans, aka marine ich, which is in no way related to Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, aka freshwater ich.

 

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/57175-fish-white-spots-went-away.html

 

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/52236-curing-fish-marine-ich.html

[Mariaface]

Am I going to just be stuck in this cycle of ich coming and going.....?

 

Until you put the tank through a long fallow period (8-10 weeks) and quarantine and medicate any additions to it, yes. You might also get away with keeping your fish extra super healthy and keeping their slime coats in working order, so that ich can be technically present but not do too much damage, if any.

[bevo5]

Ah great - those articles make me feel like an idiot!!

 

I have to sort out a plan. I don't have another tank up and running but I could probably move some filter material from the established tank into a new 10g and treat the fish with copper....and then keep the main tank fish-free for 8 weeks. Seems like the only acceptable method to dealing with this....

[james.tsai]

I had an ich infestation a couple months ago and lost 4 of 8 fish... I waited about as long as you did, through 2 cycles... feeding garlic and vitamin c, etc... and soon after it went from one fish to nearly all of them... I wasn't ready to break down the entire tank to capture every last fish... but I wanted to catch the ones I could and maintain a separate copper tank for the 8+ weeks. I was going to move anyway, so I figured I would get the rest of the fish then and quarantine them all with copper in the new house...

 

Copper is hard to use properly, makes you super paranoid about what gear, buckets, gloves, etc. were in which tank and when (transfer risk to the display), and is all around not a fun experience. If you really want to go for it, you should. Many people have had success with it, but it isn't as easy as it sounds on the box! The aftermath of which is a tank, heater, filter, net, gloves, etc. that I will probably never use again... oh and all the fish I caught died anyway because they were either too far gone, or I didn't do the copper treatment correctly. All the equipment, effort, and paranoia may or may not be worth it to you (based on your feelings about responsible / ethical husbandry, how much you love your particular fish, etc.). I tried and ultimately regretted it because they all died anyway... I hope you will be more successful!

 

I eventually decided to try Kick Ich since I couldn't capture the rest of the fish but didn't want to sit and do nothing while they were dying... I was definitely afraid of the side effects but figured what the hell. I followed the aggressive treatment plan and suffered no additional loss - that includes a mithrax crab, two clams, big feather dusters, LPS, SPS, and softies... all pulled through just fine. Kick Ich worked for me, the Ich all disappeared (or perhaps is just dormant), either way it hasn't come back. Is it all gone for sure? I don't know... will it work for you? Probably would.... the main ingredient is used in humans to treat protozoan infections so it is not simply snake oil as many suggest....

 

Hope my experience gives you some food for thought....

[jedimasterben]

Kick inch doesn't actually work. Correlation and causation and all.

[farkwar]

Turbo Twist UV.

 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7999

 

$97

 

Kills ich, bacteria, and algae.

[Mariaface]

Turbo Twist UV.

 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7999

 

$97

 

Kills ich, bacteria, and algae.

 

That would kill ich only during their free-floating stage, though, correct? There's still the offspring hidden in the sandbed or on surfaces, and the ich that makes it into fish's gills and whatnot.

[jack1978]

Kick Ich does not work. I tried it for two runs trying to avoid setting up a dedicated QT. I lost almost all my fish while using that crap.....finally set up a 10 gallon QT, power head, abs fittings for hide spots and Cupramine copper treatment and copper test to make sure I wasn't overdosing....All cheaper than the two cycles of kick ich....super easy and it worked. All treated fish made it showing improvement within 24 hours.

[farkwar]

 

That would kill ich only during their free-floating stage, though, correct? There's still the offspring hidden in the sandbed or on surfaces, and the ich that makes it into fish's gills and whatnot.

Yes, thats obvious.

 

You will see that if you kill the ICH in the water, the fishes own immune system can combat what is infecting it.

 

You will see with ICH that it comes in waves. Thats because the fish fights it off, then is reinfected by the immature ICH was growing in the substrate. That uses the water column now to infect your fish again.

 

With the UV, you remove the parasites ability to use the water column for reinfection. It cuts of the paths of fish to subtrate, and substrate to fish.

 

It is VERY effective.

 

If your fish is so sick that it cant fight off the infecting ICH, UV will do nothing for your fish, and your fish will die.

[james.tsai]

Kick inch doesn't actually work. Correlation and causation and all.

 

Please do not take this the wrong way, but is this statement based on a study or other proven, evidence-based arguments, or just your opinion? Marine Ich is a protozoan infection: http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocaryon

 

I based my own use of Kick Ich on the fact that the active ingredient, 5-nitroimadazoles, is used to treat protozoan infections:

 

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/antibacterial_agents/nitroimidazoles.html

 

The principal clinical indications for metronidazole include the treatment of specific protozoal infections (amebiasis, trichomoniasis, giardiasis, and balantidiasis) and anaerobic bacterial infections

 

Now I fully agree that my success with Kick Ich could be a case of causation / correlation... It is also possible that Marine Ich is not one of the specific protozoan infections treated by metronidazole, but it worked for me. Perhaps the makers of this stuff are simply trying to sell a drug that treats protozoan infections as a cure for Marine Ich without proving efficacy against that specific protozoan, but again, it worked for me and many others I have talked to. Just trying to add to the collective conversation and knowledge here...

 

Good luck with the Ich bevo, whatever you try... its a pretty painful and stressful disease to deal with. I will be setting up a quarantine tank in the future, that is probably the only sure fire way to keep this stuff out of your display.

[james.tsai]

Kick Ich does not work. I tried it for two runs trying to avoid setting up a dedicated QT. I lost almost all my fish while using that crap.....finally set up a 10 gallon QT, power head, abs fittings for hide spots and Cupramine copper treatment and copper test to make sure I wasn't overdosing....All cheaper than the two cycles of kick ich....super easy and it worked. All treated fish made it showing improvement within 24 hours.

 

Sorry to hear it. Were all the fish that died already heavily infected with Ich? If so, how bad were their infections? I definitely lost a fish before I used Kick Ich, and the heavily infected ones after I started treatment too. The ones that weren't infected didn't develop infections, but maybe they were just resisting it. Kick Ich supposedly only works on the free swimming stage, so those that have it attached to them have to fight it off. That is the good thing about copper, it kills all the parasites in any stage. I just found it hard to use personally... my clowns died in the QT tank I set up, but they were probably too far gone and/or I didn't do it right...

 

FWIW, the cost of a new tank, heater, filter, copper, copper test, net, etc. was far higher than the bottle of Kick Ich. At least it was for me...

[bevo5]

Well crap. I'm not sure what to do. I think breaking the tank down and chasing these fish around only to put them in a hastily set up tank with uncycled filters and copper medication isn't a super awesome option. Then again I get that they are going to die in the main tank.

 

I set up a UV - whether or not it really helps I don't know, but it can't hurt.

 

I guess I'm going to set up a 10g and get a filter and tank water in there and see what I can do to catch the three fish I have.

 

Problem is I'm leaving town for the next two weeks. My wife is handling top-off and feedings, but keeping that 10g up and running with fresh water changes to battle ammonia is not an option for her.

 

hmmmm

[jedimasterben]

Please do not take this the wrong way, but is this statement based on a study or other proven, evidence-based arguments, or just your opinion? Marine Ich is a protozoan infection: http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocaryon

 

I based my own use of Kick Ich on the fact that the active ingredient, 5-nitroimadazoles, is used to treat protozoan infections:

 

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/antibacterial_agents/nitroimidazoles.html

 

The principal clinical indications for metronidazole include the treatment of specific protozoal infections (amebiasis, trichomoniasis, giardiasis, and balantidiasis) and anaerobic bacterial infections

My statement is based on significant amounts of research. Metronidazole is, at best, ineffective against C. irritans. Copper, chloroquine phosphate are the only 'safe' medications that are able to successfully kill this parasite with nearly 100% success. Hyposalinity is another treatment, though it is less effective.