lkoechle Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So, I've been bit by the bug. I love my 4 gallon freshwater but I miss my salt. We are planning to resurrect our 20L. It was our first tank and since then we've learned a lot and are now planning a more long term build. The 20 ran for about a year before we tore it down to move out of state. Then we had a pico until I had a baby, decided to go to something less maintenance and now that pico is my freshwater. We're hoping to have this build going in a year. The last time it was just a 20 with an AC 70. This time we're including a sump and custom stand, so a little (a lot) more money is going to be involved. Specs: 20 L with 10 gallon sump proposed maintenance: 25% weekly water change (we'll see how it goes and what's needed. I hear flames eat a lot...) Husband's dream fish is a flame angel, so it's going to be designed with the flame angel in mind (which will also be the last added fish). I'm thinking this could be stocked with 3 fish max. For those three, I was thinking the angel, a pink streaked wrasse, and a snowflake clown. Do you think those personalities would match? I would prefer a six line, but my concern would be the sixline and angel would get into it since they're both active swimmers and my last sixline, while beautiful, was a total D***. He got sent back to the store Also, do you think I could squeeze in a mate for the clown? My mocha pair hardly ever left the corner they hosted and with weekly changes (or more frequent depending) plus the sump I think I could take care of waste management well. Anyways, opinions would be appreciated. Even though this tank is a long ways off, I like having a vision during the planning phase. Link to comment
4x5 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't want to be a downer but I think that a 20L is a bit of a tight squeeze for a Flame Angel, they're really active and that's not a lot of swimming space for it IMO. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't want to be a downer but I think that a 20L is a bit of a tight squeeze for a Flame Angel, they're really active and that's not a lot of swimming space for it IMO. I've been reading a lot, and the general consensus thus far is that the length of the 20L seems to be adequate. A lot of folks have had long term success with the flames in 20L. I do know this is on the "small end" but one person said had a larger tank (can't remember the size but it was considerably larger) and said the flame seemed just as happy in the 20L as it did in the larger. I understand the concern Link to comment
East1 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 you could probably comfortably do a C. Argi in that size tank though, with lots of open rockwork and swimming space a flame would do alright. They don't venture too far from the rockwork, but are very active. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 you could probably comfortably do a C. Argi in that size tank though, with lots of open rockwork and swimming space a flame would do alright. They don't venture too far from the rockwork, but are very active. My husband thinks they're ugly. We've been through that when we nixxed the idea of the flame angel in the first tank. Link to comment
TEETEE562 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think u can get away with it if you get a baby flame probably for a couple of years but they will grow out if it Link to comment
4x5 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ultimately it's your tank and you get to decide what goes in it, I'm just trying to give you some first hand experience and IME a 20L would be too small for a Flame's personality. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think u can get away with it if you get a baby flame probably for a couple of years but they will grow out if it Yeah, I was thinking of looking for one in the 1" length and then seeing how it grows. Depending on that time frame, if we haven't upgraded to a larger tank but think he/she's outgrown it and is no longer happy, then rehoming it. Of course, I'd rather keep it, but not if its unhappy. Link to comment
Toybuddha Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I would second the idea that a flame angel in a 20l is pushing it. I wanted one for my 20l but decided against it. Link to comment
joy13 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Angels no matter what the angel is not an angel. In a 20 gallon you can expect aggression because they consider the tank to be theirs they can go where they want and nip anyone that tries to defend their territory from my experience with them. No more angels and no more clowns for me after my clown goes. LOL funny thing is I know clowns to live over 20 years so the crazy thing will probably out live me. Link to comment
atrox Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Step up the tank size and get a 40 breeder it's a great tank size that will give you more stocking options. Footprint isn't much bigger than 20 long. Flames angels are great fish, mine had been a joy to watch. Check out my tank, got a six line and a flame and they are best buds. Link to comment
masterbuilder Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I agree with atrox...Get a 40 breeder or choose a different fish. Also...corals will be difficult with a flame if that was in the plan. They nip almost all corals. Keep us updated. Link to comment
xXReeferXx Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Worst isn't 20 liters only 5 gallons, I must be missing something Wait* Link to comment
lkoechle Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 20L = 20 gallon long. Has the same foot print as a 30 gallon but shallower. Link to comment
ManGups Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I have kept one in a 20 G long for several months ( broke down the tank and sold off the aquaria because of move) He did great for as long as he was with me -- however again it also depends on other inhabitants. I only had 4 fishes in there and the angel ran the tank. ( Green Dragonet, yellow Wrasse and a chromi) Make sure if you do add - it needs to be the last addition. PS : i had the same questions as you before I added - see threads here: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/335609-flame-angle-tank-size/ Link to comment
joy13 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 What do you consider long term? I look at a lfs store tank as long term it has the same clown in it I believe the clown is close to 27 now. There is someone that has had a tank for over 40 years and has never crashed it or taken it down. His clowns are 20 and breed. I know someone that had a beautiful clown fish in a 5 gallon tank the fish hardly could move she was so big. He had the fish for 6 months before it died, his idea of long term. A 20 gallon long isn't enough room for a flame angel to live long term, they also get aggressive with age. You have to consider not only the footprint but the bioload when looking at the size of tank. Link to comment
lkoechle Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 I have kept one in a 20 G long for several months ( broke down the tank and sold off the aquaria because of move) He did great for as long as he was with me -- however again it also depends on other inhabitants. I only had 4 fishes in there and the angel ran the tank. ( Green Dragonet, yellow Wrasse and a chromi) Make sure if you do add - it needs to be the last addition. PS : i had the same questions as you before I added - see threads here: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/335609-flame-angle-tank-size/ I think we're going to go with a coral beauty. I hear they are slightly less aggressive then the flame angels. It's hard to decide. I know clowns can be territorial. My last pair chased the six line right out of the tank after the sixline had been picking fights with my female clown for a week (I don't understand why he did this, there was the whole rest of the tank and the clowns never left the corner). I learned the value of some kind of top after that . So on the one hand, I want a fish that can stand up to bullying (like clowns) but on the other hand I don't want someone getting chase out of the tank. I have a good relationship with my LFS so we'll probably go with a small coral beauty and return it if the clowns get too aggressive. But the clowns also had the run of the tank for a year so I might just add the coral beauty with the clowns in closer proximity in an attempt to avoid the clowns being too aggressive. Frankly though, I think my female was just a b***. She'd attack me when I was cleaning the glass. I loved her but she had her opinions. Link to comment
ManGups Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think we're going to go with a coral beauty. I hear they are slightly less aggressive then the flame angels. It's hard to decide. I know clowns can be territorial. My last pair chased the six line right out of the tank after the sixline had been picking fights with my female clown for a week (I don't understand why he did this, there was the whole rest of the tank and the clowns never left the corner). I learned the value of some kind of top after that . So on the one hand, I want a fish that can stand up to bullying (like clowns) but on the other hand I don't want someone getting chase out of the tank. I have a good relationship with my LFS so we'll probably go with a small coral beauty and return it if the clowns get too aggressive. But the clowns also had the run of the tank for a year so I might just add the coral beauty with the clowns in closer proximity in an attempt to avoid the clowns being too aggressive. Frankly though, I think my female was just a b***. She'd attack me when I was cleaning the glass. I loved her but she had her opinions. You could also look at a Cherub angel - they are beautiful too with lots of personality. I currently have it in a 24 gallon tank - recommended size is from min 30 gallon to 55 gallon depends where you look Link to comment
xXReeferXx Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 20L = 20 gallon long. Has the same foot print as a 30 gallon but shallower. Oh wow I sound like an idiot lol I thought it was 29 liters Link to comment
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