Please Help! Dying 6yo Female Clown

[tibbsy07]

I am not so sure about that... the lifespan in the wild is 6-10 but some clowns have been known to live 25+ years in captivity. 15+ years is not that uncommon.... tank disaster just usually strikes before then.

 

I believe he oldest perculas in captivity are 35+ years and still alive.

 

Ofc everyone could be liars but I doubt it.

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/10/15/20-year-pair-black-ocellaris-clownfish/

Sure, but those are relatively few cases. Most captive animals don't live as long as their wild counterparts (killer whales are the most recent discussion related to this). We're assuming perfect conditions, too. Most of the long-lived aquarium fish don't exist in hobbyists tanks, but rather large facilities, either public aquariums or aquaculture facilities. In addition, these two black clowns are among the first of the captive-bred fish. I'd expect those fish to have longer captive lives than their wild counterparts in captivity - they were domesticated, bred, birthed, and raised there whereas the wild versions were caught.

 

If OPs fish was captive-bred, then I would expect longer. Even so, the average life expectancy of people is X number of years, but that means many live less and many live more.

 

There is no doubt that ammonia is the major trigger here - clearly the other fish is affected, suggesting this has to be the case. That being said, the fact that the smaller/younger fish is still fighting suggests that age may have played a role in it, too.

[Tamberav]

I just feel life span of a captive clown is skewed due to mess-ups, acts of god, parasites, people getting out of the hobby and selling their fish off, poor record keeping, nutrition, ect.

 

Really all I am saying is average life span in captive aquaria is probably not all that accurate related to old age because there are so many factors.

 

Having said that, 6 years is still impressive and that is one tough bugger to still be alive after 8ppm ammonia at any age.

[teamhapo]

And for the sake of argument, keep in mind that Ken pointed out that I misspoke about the age...we actually purchased them six years ago... He's certain they were older than that (she was almost 2 1/4" then, he was too small to remember), but we have no way of knowing for sure.

 

He's still a bit anxious in the QT without anything to hide in but seems to be doing a bit better.

[teamhapo]

Update on the update: nassarius did not die. Went to pull him out and he spread back out and start across the glass. He is not a healthy color, though. Is there anything we can do to help him out? Should we get a little glass of the new sand to put him in or try to get him to an established tank? I wish we had some of our old sand.

 

Update:

 

The little guy is doing much better. I'm going to see if I can get some PVC in the tank to give him a place to hide, he doesn't love the empty tank at all. But he ate very heartily last night.

 

Our white nassarius died overnight. He was part of our original buy too- more than six years old himself. Been through a lot, that guy, and then we stole his sand and killed him off. Yeesh, it's hard to stay motivated to keep up with this hobby when you make mistakes like this. We're focused on the little guy for now, and said we wouldn't make any decisions until after the tank cycled.

 

Ammonia is still through the roof on the larger tank. We'll do a water change this weekend and hopefully start spotting nitrites next week. Don't figure we're in any hurry at this point, except for trying to find our two little crabs. We've checked all the shells we've found but no luck. We're pulling the rocks up today and see if we can find them, but I'm not hopeful we'll find them alive.

 

Small tank is at 0.25ppm, we'll test again today to see if it creeps up and water change/prime as needed.

 

I know I've said it a million times, but truly - thank you for the guidance. I just wish we had posted sooner. Can't believe that out of our strong tank our tiniest little guy is the one surviving. If I could pick him up and hug him I swear I think I would!!

[Tamberav]

I am so glad to hear he is doing well!!!

[joy13]

I am not so sure about that... the lifespan in the wild is 6-10 but some clowns have been known to live 25+ years in captivity. 15+ years is not that uncommon.... tank disaster just usually strikes before then.

 

I believe he oldest perculas in captivity are 35+ years and still alive.

 

Ofc everyone could be liars but I doubt it.

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/10/15/20-year-pair-black-ocellaris-clownfish/

There is a LFS that has a clown that is 25 maybe older, the maroon they had died at about 20 I think. She was so mean no one could stick their hand in the tank without getting bit. Their tanks is under stocked the maroon had a 75 by herself and the perc has a 75 he shares with a 17 (?) year old sixline wrasse and a marine betta.

[joy13]

When prime binds ammonia certain tests like api will still read ammonia there is another test that will only read the ammonia that is harmful. I am not for sure what that test is. Keeping up with the water changes will help a lot to keep the little guy healthy.

[Tamberav]

There is a LFS that has a clown that is 25 maybe older, the maroon they had died at about 20 I think. She was so mean no one could stick their hand in the tank without getting bit. Their tanks is under stocked the maroon had a 75 by herself and the perc has a 75 he shares with a 17 (?) year old sixline wrasse and a marine betta.

 

ha, wow! Didn't know sixlines could get so old.

 

 

When prime binds ammonia certain tests like api will still read ammonia there is another test that will only read the ammonia that is harmful. I am not for sure what that test is. Keeping up with the water changes will help a lot to keep the little guy healthy.

 

+1

 

It will still read ammonia even though prime detoxifies it. Prime also only lasts max 24-48 hours before the ammonia becomes toxic again. Because of this, I dose some every day in a QT tank without ill effects. It would take a massive overdose before there would be anything to worry about.

[teamhapo]

Any thoughts on the nassarius? Should we get some sand for him or just let it ride?

[GTi]

Any thoughts on the nassarius? Should we get some sand for him or just let it ride?

I'd move him to the QT - he'll manage without sand.

[teamhapo]

He's been in our QT since last night. He's rolled a few times, but I think this time was the last one. He's gone. Lil' bit is still hanging in there, seems more comfortable now in the tank.

[GTi]

He's been in our QT since last night. He's rolled a few times, but I think this time was the last one. He's gone. Lil' bit is still hanging in there, seems more comfortable now in the tank.

Good luck with the fish. Adding some pipe or somewhere for him to hide out is probably a good idea.

[teamhapo]

Thank you - we'll see what the coming days bring.

[metrokat]

If the snail died in the QT, may have spiked more ammonia, you won't get that reading if you have API and are dosing Prime. I would change some water in the QT.

[lkoechle]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I was surprised how upset I was when we had to sell our clowns back and I only had them for year before we moved. We're planning a new tank and I keep trying to talk myself out of clowns because I want something flashier, but there's something so endearing about their personalities that I'll probably find myself with them again.

 

I wish you the best of luck with the rest. Fingers crossed for you!

[Tamberav]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I was surprised how upset I was when we had to sell our clowns back and I only had them for year before we moved. We're planning a new tank and I keep trying to talk myself out of clowns because I want something flashier, but there's something so endearing about their personalities that I'll probably find myself with them again.

 

I wish you the best of luck with the rest. Fingers crossed for you!

 

Designer clowns.... super flashy!!

[neuwave]

Sure, but those are relatively few cases. Most captive animals don't live as long as their wild counterparts (killer whales are the most recent discussion related to this). We're assuming perfect conditions, too. Most of the long-lived aquarium fish don't exist in hobbyists tanks, but rather large facilities, either public aquariums or aquaculture facilities. In addition, these two black clowns are among the first of the captive-bred fish. I'd expect those fish to have longer captive lives than their wild counterparts in captivity - they were domesticated, bred, birthed, and raised there whereas the wild versions were caught.

 

If OPs fish was captive-bred, then I would expect longer. Even so, the average life expectancy of people is X number of years, but that means many live less and many live more.

 

There is no doubt that ammonia is the major trigger here - clearly the other fish is affected, suggesting this has to be the case. That being said, the fact that the smaller/younger fish is still fighting suggests that age may have played a role in it, too.

I just feel life span of a captive clown is skewed due to mess-ups, acts of god, parasites, people getting out of the hobby and selling their fish off, poor record keeping, nutrition, ect.

 

Really all I am saying is average life span in captive aquaria is probably not all that accurate related to old age because there are so many factors.

 

Having said that, 6 years is still impressive and that is one tough bugger to still be alive after 8ppm ammonia at any age.

 

Actually Tamberav is on the right track. A 6 year old clown is fantastic but they can live a lot longer. As long as the proper conditions are met. Which is just good husbandry and no serious issues. I'm not talking about power outages, AC failing, broken heater, overdosing and such. If you determine the lifespan of clowns that have good water conditions and a stable environment. They can live for many years. A LFS has a maroon that's around 15 years old. A wild male that was retired from the ORA breeding facility. I used to care for 6 pairs of clowns for a marine biologist a decade ago. He was done researching them at one point but after completing his research they became his pets at work. 2 true percula clown pair, 1 false perc pair, 1 maroon pair and 2 sebae pairs were my responsibility as he worked on other projects. All of his were wild caught back prior to 1998 and he already had them between 6-10 years. My current pair is around four and half. So if we are speaking about general lifespan in good conditions, they can live for ages.

[teamhapo]

Did a small water change on the QT and got a pipe in there for hiding. Will test cycling tank tonight. Lil' bit is hanging in there and doing great. Eating well and swimming strong.

[teamhapo]

Hi folks! Six weeks in and the little guy is hanging in there quite well. We still had a nitrate problem in the main tank (guessing that it's leaching from the rocks) so we are still doing water changes and waiting for the nitrates to stabilize. Two crabs have survived and continue to clean the main tank - unbelievably resilient, those two.

 

The little guy is still in QT. Today we noticed a pretty high ph, so will be trying to aerate a bit more. That tank was never meant to be used quite this long. It's only ten gallons, so maybe a bubbler?

 

Last up - the little guy is hiding out in his PVC a lot. Comes out to eat regularly, but doesn't eat a ton. He has gotten quite a bit bigger, which leads to think he may be changing sex. The odd thing is his color. He is typically a darker orange-red but he's now a pale orange and his find are looking transparent. Water levels (except ph) are normal, and temperature is level. Is it because of his growth spurt? I can't find anything that says ph would make him change color.....thoughts?

[CronicReefer]

I know fish usually darken color when stressed. Hopefully it's just less stressed now and not anything more serious.

 

[reefernanoman]

Sorry for your losses, but do you have a master test kit at your house? I would get one so that you can see what is going on with you ur water and take action. Get an API or Red Sea(which is more expensive but people say it's more accurate). Keep up with your water changes at least once a week. I have a 28G tank and change 3 gallons a week, as an example. I also have a Female Maroon clownfish happily alive since 2006, after many moves and tanks. Good luck.

[teamhapo]

Hi, yes we test regularly and have had a successful tanks for many years. All levels are normal except for the high ph which we're dealing with This was a dumb mistake we're still recovering from. We're hoping that a new light schedule will help out with the color scenario. Thanks all!