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Help with rising nitrates- 40ppm, time to reboot?


le0p

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Sorry this is a little long, want to give you the whole story...

 

I'm new to reefing but have been keeping planted tanks for years. My tank has been set up for 9 months now. For the first 7 months everything was going great, everything I put into the tank was growing like crazy, fish and inverts all doing well, then I had a disaster. My return pump literally caught on fire and I had to do an emergency change, it took awhile (most of a day) but I kept the pumps running in the display and put a powerhead in the sump.

 

At the time I didn't realize it but the ATO was damaged when the pump blew up. After everything was running again, the ATO dumped 3 or 4 gallons into the sump. I scrambled to get the water out and raised the salinity back up slowly.

 

Ever since then, it's been all down hill. Nitrates have been on the rise, I lost 3 or 4 coral but no fish or inverts. I had a major outbreak of red flat worms and every 4 or so days there's a carpet of diatoms on the sand. The flatworms have subsided but are still present and the algae continues to go nuts.

 

I change the water once a week with Reef Crystals, if things are looking really bad or I need to clean the sand bed, I'll do two changes a week. Each one 10 gallons with RO/DI (filters changed 2 months ago)

 

I realize i was over feeding for awhile, it hadn't been a problem before but it caught up to me. I've since cut way back on that and feed less frozen.

 

I've been checking nitrates every water change and they've been going up, I added a biopellet reactor after I started seeing 5ppm. I did two water changes this week and it's still at 40ppm.

 

So I'm looking for ideas on how to get this back under control. I am installing a new sump this weekend and moving the tank (I patched the old one and it's surprisingly held for this long), so I'm wondering if this is the time to tear it down completely and start over.

 

What do you all think?

 

 



This is the tank set up:

 

Tank: 40b/20H sump

Lighting: Dual Lumia 5.2's running at 70%

Skimmer: SCA 301

Biopellet reactor: CPR Mini w/200 ml biopellets

Carbon: 400g cheap carbon in 100gph/internal filter

Return pump: Reeflo Dart/Snapper hybrid valved back

Powerheads: wp10 and koralia 600

ATO: Tunze nano

Refugium: 15 lbs of live rock and a ton of red grape caulerpa

 

Livestock:

2 spotcinctus clowns

1 watchman goby

1 engineer goby

1 falco hawkfish

1 sixline wrasse

2 emerald crabs

1 peppermint shrimp

bunch of hermits and snails

40lbs of live rock.

 

Coral that survived but are hanging on:

Trachyphilia

Purple monticap

Neon leather

Fuzzy mushroom

red mushroom

Small zoa colony

Green gorgonian

Coco worm

Meteor Shower

Sunrise Monti

Pearl bubble

Bubble coral

Hammer

Torch

Frogspawn

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Any media in your filtration that should be replaced? Several types of media become saturated and will need cleaning/replacing otherwise they will just leech back into your tank.

 

I am not sure how you would humanely tear down and restart unless you are moving your livestock into a new tank? If you are then maybe move them while you figure out the cause.

 

In order for your nitrates to be rising at the rate you are talking about it would suggest that there is something going on in your tank. You wouldn't want to tear it down and find you havent solved the problem!

 

What are the parameters of the water you are adding? Based on the timeline of things you mention (Tank going well for 7 months, RO filters change 2 months ago) it sounds like replacing the RO filter coincides with when things started to go wrong....

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The only media in the tank is biopellets and carbon, carbon was change two weeks ago, bio pellets were added in June. It's possible they could need to be filled up, I'll get some this weekend and replenish the reactor.

 

I have one of those RO buddy systems with DI, so the cartridges are all self contained. I replaced everything in the filter. I haven't checked that honestly, so I will definitely do it tonight.

 

I have a couple tubs laying around for aquarium use, so the plan was to empty 20 gallons or so into a plastic tub, get the livestock in there with water flow and heat.

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Increase nutrient export. Large (50%+) water changes, a larger skimmer, a large refugium, an algal turf scrubber. Or decrease nutrient import and feed less.

 

 

IMHO, your skimmer is far too small for your bioload. Buy a new one.

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If you want to stay cheap the 302 would be a huge upgrade. I still use mine in my 90 gallon. It worked well in my 50 before I upgraded.

 

How long has the biopellet reactor been going and are the pellets still tumbling?

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Do you trust your nitrate test?

 

What are the KH and calcium levels, how do you maintain them?

 

Any algae issues?

 

Any pictures?

 

Opinions:

 

Personally, I do not agree with running bio pellets and I do not agree with reduction in feeding. I do agree with an increase in exports. When things go wrong the best course of action, IMO, is to take most everything offline (except the skimmer), run carbon if you think there are toxins, and do a lot of water changes. I prefer smaller more frequent changes over large ones but it depends on the tank and how important it is to keep the params stable.

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Increase nutrient export. Large (50%+) water changes, a larger skimmer, a large refugium, an algal turf scrubber. Or decrease nutrient import and feed less.

 

 

IMHO, your skimmer is far too small for your bioload. Buy a new one.

 

My thoughts exactly, although I would carbon dose with a larger skimmer if I had nitrates that high. I don't trust bio pellets I have seen some systems get thoroughly nasty with their improper usage.

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Starting over...and over each time there is a problem should be avoided in nearly all cases IMO. Understanding and successfully dealing with a current tank's problems is where we all learn how to be better aquarists.

 

Reduction in feeding seems like good advice, but what many don't realize is that all the organisms dependent on the regular nutrient input will start to die off and decay, thus adding nutrients back into the water column. Hence the rise in nitrates and phosphates even though feeding is reduced. Nuisance algae can then take advantage of the available nutrients and proliferate. Reduction in feeding, if undertaken, should be done very gradually to allow the system to adjust.

 

Ideally, feed only enough to keep the fish healthy and a small amount of food target fed to corals once or twice a week, if desired.

 

The advice to increase nutrient export while keeping food inputs at a stable level is correct. In addition, you can increase the efficiency of the bacteria in the system to deal with nitrate and phosphate by removing detritus from the system (ex: vacuuming part of the sustrate with each WC). Removing detritus also removes organics that would otherwise be reduced in the system and move the system toward 'eutrophication' (definition: a process where water bodies receive excess nutrients that stimulate excessive plant growth)

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Depends on what brand you want, what footprint you have available, and what your price range is.

Brand doesn't matter to me, as long as it's effective. Right now, I'd say my price range is 200$. Which is definitely limited, but if I'm going to get one relatively soon, that's all I can do.

 

A quick look around and I'm thinking the BM Nac5.5, the SCA 302, and the CAD Lights Gen3 PLS-100 look like options.. or if I can find something used. Opinions on these? Any suggestions?

If you want to stay cheap the 302 would be a huge upgrade. I still use mine in my 90 gallon. It worked well in my 50 before I upgraded.

 

How long has the biopellet reactor been going and are the pellets still tumbling?

I am definitely thinking about the 302, I need to check the dimensions on the new sump and stand to make sure it'll fit. It won't fit in my current sump, but I increased the dimensions of the skimmer section so I think it'll be fine.

 

Biopellets have been in for 3 months, I added the pellets slowly a little more every week. Took about a month and a half to put in what I have now. They're still tumbling.

 

Do you trust your nitrate test?

 

What are the KH and calcium levels, how do you maintain them?

 

Any algae issues?

 

Any pictures?

 

Opinions:

 

Personally, I do not agree with running bio pellets and I do not agree with reduction in feeding. I do agree with an increase in exports. When things go wrong the best course of action, IMO, is to take most everything offline (except the skimmer), run carbon if you think there are toxins, and do a lot of water changes. I prefer smaller more frequent changes over large ones but it depends on the tank and how important it is to keep the params stable.

Well, it's an API test. The expiration date is good, but I've always been leary of any of the API kits. I may pick up a new test this weekend. That's a good point. I've had trouble with their tests in the past.

 

I didn't run a full set of tests since I did it this morning before work. I will test everything I can tonight and post the results.

 

Tons of algae now, mostly diatoms. I clean the sand of algae with every water change and sometimes before then if it starts getting bad.

 

I don't have any recent pictures (hasn't looked good enough to take any) but I will definitely takes some later.

 

 

My thoughts exactly, although I would carbon dose with a larger skimmer if I had nitrates that high. I don't trust bio pellets I have seen some systems get thoroughly nasty with their improper usage.

Do you think pulling the reactor at this point would make things easier to diagnose/fix or just make the problem worse?

Starting over...and over each time there is a problem should be avoided in nearly all cases IMO. Understanding and successfully dealing with a current tank's problems is where we all learn how to be better aquarists.

 

Reduction in feeding seems like good advice, but what many don't realize is that all the organisms dependent on the regular nutrient input will start to die off and decay, thus adding nutrients back into the water column. Hence the rise in nitrates and phosphates even though feeding is reduced. Nuisance algae can then take advantage of the available nutrients and proliferate. Reduction in feeding, if undertaken, should be done very gradually to allow the system to adjust.

 

Ideally, feed only enough to keep the fish healthy and a small amount of food target fed to corals once or twice a week, if desired.

 

The advice to increase nutrient export while keeping food inputs at a stable level is correct. In addition, you can increase the efficiency of the bacteria in the system to deal with nitrate and phosphate by removing detritus from the system (ex: vacuuming part of the sustrate with each WC). Removing detritus also removes organics that would otherwise be reduced in the system and move the system toward 'eutrophication' (definition: a process where water bodies receive excess nutrients that stimulate excessive plant growth)

By starting over I'm really just thinking about replacing the sand, giving all the rocks a good scrub/rinse and cleaning out the tank really well while I'm doing this sump change.

 

I really appreciate all the advice and information in this thread, I'll post some results and pictures later when I get out of work.

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I would definitely do a PO4 test as well if you can get a good quality one. If you have the ability to, definitely get a second reading on the nitrates, preferably with a really good quality test like elos, or salifert. I don't trust the API nitrate or phosphate tests at all.

 

I'm not a big fan of starting over unless it's literally from ground zero. If the rock has absorbed a lot of PO4, it's going to take more than just a scrubbing to get it under control.

 

There's multiple opinions on this one but I've had great results running pellets which I've been doing for about 4 years now. Haven't had measurable nitrates in a long time but I do have to run GFO to take care of the remaining PO4 that the pellets don't get rid of.

 

But, they're obviously not a cure-all. In your case, the upgraded skimmer would probably help the pellets out a lot. I would definitely get a set routine for the water changes and stick to it. You may also be dealing with PO4 either from feeding or from it leaching out of the rock. This will also contribute a lot to algae growth, more so than nitrate in my experience.

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tbh, i am not one to advise on anything biopellet related but i have seen enough costly disasters with them to make me not want to try one. I couldn't say what type of effect immediate removal would have in your case. would be best answered by someone who has removed theirs when things weren't going well.

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I love biopellets and vodka and vinigar. It probably took around 6 months for nitrates to start dropping though.

 

I would not cut feeding with biopellets.

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Didn't have time to get Ca,Mg,and KH tests done but I did run the same nitrate test on my RO/DI water and it came back 0.

 

also, here's a picture of the tank right now:

 

WP_20140927_09_20_32_Pro_zps4fa805d8.jpg

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Looks pretty good, actually. Most of the corals are extended and a relatively low bio-load, too.

 

The brown algae on the sand bed is a problem that is being posted by those using RC lately along with brown scum in the water container. I started a few months ago with 1/2 - 1/2 IO and RC and have had the same issue as well as the brown scum when I make up a batch of new salt water. When I'm done with my salt batch, I'll be switching over to straight IO to see if that eliminates the problem.

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Looks pretty good, actually. Most of the corals are extended and a relatively low bio-load, too.

 

The brown algae on the sand bed is a problem that is being posted by those using RC lately along with brown scum in the water container. I started a few months ago with 1/2 - 1/2 IO and RC and have had the same issue as well as the brown scum when I make up a batch of new salt water. When I'm done with my salt batch, I'll be switching over to straight IO to see if that eliminates the problem.

 

I get the same brown scum in the mixing tub. I'd try something else but i have about 150 gallons worth of Reef crystals. After that though, I think I'll try something else.

 

I'll be posting test results tomorrow morning, I plan to test everything before starting the sump replacement.

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The brown scum is normal for some salts. Mine has had it for as long as I can remember. It helps to slowly add salt to bring the level up and don't add a heater until it is fully mixed (heating makes it precipitate more). I doubt it is related unless its some new type of brown scum because sometimes batches of salt do show up tainted.

 

According to this it is calcium carbonate or possible anti caking agent.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/

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Yes, I've read about RC and the caking agent. What I do know is that I was algae free using MicroLift and my issues started a month or so after switching to RC with no other changes to my tank. Proof? No, but it's a possibility that the brown scum contributes to an environment conducive to brown algae/cyano growth over time.

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Yes, I've read about RC and the caking agent. What I do know is that I was algae free using MicroLift and my issues started a month or so after switching to RC with no other changes to my tank. Proof? No, but it's a possibility that the brown scum contributes to an environment conducive to brown algae/cyano growth over time.

 

I admittedly don't use RC but I have used Coralife forever and my mixing container looks pretty gross right now :lol: No cyano/GHA to speak of.

 

Live Aquaria/Diver's Den uses RC for all of their tanks and many people here do so I wouldn't think RC in general would be a problem unless it was a bad batch. It is a very popular salt.

 

I would personally look for other reasons for the nitrate tbh.

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Yes it is and I've used RC in the past without issues. The posts I've been seeing with accessive scum and possibly related brown algae/cyano issues are mostly within the last 6 months. Not sure, but possibly something changed in fairly recent batches?

 

Anyway, I'll see what happens when I switch to straight IO in a few months while keeping the tank running exactly as it has for years.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I run the SCA-302 skimmer on my tank and I had to back off water changes to monthly because the tank was getting too clean. It is inexpensive and does the job.

 

I would slowly replace your sand bed a 1/4 at a time per 2 weeks and increase water changes to get the nitrates down to 10.

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