ADA 60p Soft Coral Mangrove Peninsular - Long overdue update

[nanolutionary]

I've had two dwarf angels in my 30G nano, the first, a fireball angel used to dart around the tank so gracefully, but it would occasionally go to the corner and go up and down the corner of the tank as though it was stressed, after my oxygen crash due to a power failure killed this dwarf angel i got another, a midnight angel which exhibited the same behaviour, all my other fish and current fish - which are the correct recommended size/species for my tank - show no signs of stress like the dwarf angels did.

 

I prefer having less fish in the tank and knowing that they're all suited as much as possible to the best habitat I can provide.

 

I have to say that I think it is a little difficult for me to agree with your water quality argument, but I suppose that's because I believe that fish, like all animals feel things just like we do, including stress.

[East1]

I'm not going to defend my method of thought when this hobby is really just the blind leading the blind trying to find out what doesn't kill our pets fastest, I think the japanese methods of keeping the fish/coral balance works better for me,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa6BgRBzWmQ

[East1]

I've had two dwarf angels in my 30G nano, the first, a fireball angel used to dart around the tank so gracefully, but it would occasionally go to the corner and go up and down the corner of the tank as though it was stressed, after my oxygen crash due to a power failure killed this dwarf angel i got another, a midnight angel which exhibited the same behaviour, all my other fish and current fish - which are the correct recommended size/species for my tank - show no signs of stress like the dwarf angels did.

 

I prefer having less fish in the tank and knowing that they're all suited as much as possible to the best habitat I can provide.

 

I have to say that I think it is a little difficult for me to agree with your water quality argument, but I suppose that's because I believe that fish, like all animals feel things just like we do, including stress.

There is no empirical evidence that fish in small environments are victim of stress (within reason, a tang in a 60 gallon and a tang in a 10 gallon are two entirely different things and I'm arguing 'small' not cramped) but there are countless threads and experiences of poor water quality directly leading to diminished lifespan, and illness, ultimately death. It's common knowledge that poor parameters will kill your inhabitants and I think that should be everyone's first priority, a large tank with poor parameters will still equate to unhealthy fish.

 

I looked over your tank thread, I think your angelfish stress issue is due to your rockwork layout, centropyrge angels generally are found in reef rubble zones and don't like to venture far from crevices, and will get stressed without adequate dense rockwork to encourage that feeling of safety, they like to have lots of little overhangs, caves and holes to dart into and move from/to

[nanolutionary]

... I'll get flamed for this ...got them in a small box that holds 5 gallons...

 

 

 

... 3 damsels (one died, one was relegated to the sump due to aggression)...

 

I think my tank can...deal with it long term... it's impressive as hell to see.

 

 

 

... the dwarf angel flares at the damsels occasionally now...

 

 

... I'm probably gonna upgrade...

 

 

I'm not going to defend my method... this hobby is really just the blind leading the blind trying to find out what doesn't kill our pets fastest..

 

 

There is no empirical evidence that fish in small environments are victim of stress...

 

 

I'm glad I decided to let my angels go to a much larger tank than my 30 gallon, with lots of hiding spaces for them to go to as well

[East1]

I'm missing the point you're trying to make with your selective quoting, your fist quote was from when I added 4 gobies and the angel to my 1.5 gallon pico a week before getting the upgrade, as the pictures highlight.

 

Still amazed that I got onto reefbuilders!

 

After some deliberation I removed the current fish stock barring the cardinal, I want to be able to keep smaller fish and shrimp without fear of the plectranthias eating them

 

I fear I'll get flamed for this, but I'm a firm believer of water quality and available food over tank size is what keeps most of our inhabitants happy (obviously not all fish, I'm referring more to the cryptic portion of reef fish that rarely stray from crevices and overhangs)

I don't think it matters to them weather you've got them in a small box that holds 5 gallons or a small box that holds 50 gallons, they're still enclosed but I believe that synergises with their natural behaviour.

The second was the reduction of my damsel school from 5 to 4 due to one swimming down the overflow, getting stuck and dying, requiring a subsequent rehoming because an even number of damsels almost always results in one getting picked on.

 

Furthermore, flaring and defense of territory is not akin to stress-related behaviour. All fish will flare/defend their area, and is most commonly seen when a royal gramma gapes at anything getting close to it's cave.

 

 

The last quote was more of a comment on the ethical limitations we place on ourselves in this hobby. There is no evidence that having a fish in a tank that is too small will result in its demise, it will definitely have a psychological effect if the fish cannot exhibit it's natural behaviour but there is nothing stating 'A clownfish in a 5 gallon tank WILL die' however 'A clownfish in a tank with inadequate water filtration [read: too much ammonia/nitrate] and insufficient food, definitelly will die'

 

If you're going to quote my posts to highlight the shortcomings of my arguments and ideas, please ensure you do so properly and surmise my ideas in entirety, because this doesn't seem a very well conveyed argument on your part. I don't really follow the narrative you're going for with the other 3 quotes, you've done nothing apart from isolating some of my ideas into an incoherent collection of statements.

[nanolutionary]

I do really like your tank it's just too small for the amount of and type of fish you have in there and I think you know it, that's all.

[Azedenkae]

Nice tank! I am probably not sharing a similar opinion with many others, but I think that's fine. It looks awesome. ;D

 

They don't grow that big anyways.

[East1]

I do really like your tank it's just too small for the amount of and type of fish you have in there and I think you know it, that's all.

 

It's more that I think my school of thought automatically puts me on the back foot when it comes to what is commonly accepted as ethical and achievable, but some years ago the idea of a nano reef was met with the same skepticism

[nanolutionary]

A skeptcism around whether it was feasible, even possible, to regulate such a small body of water effectively, yes. A skepticism around whether it was ethical to keep corals, invertebrates and suitable fish if it could be accomplished, no.

 

I disagree with the poster before you, this is the predominant way of thinking on this planet, the school of thought which believes that Mother Earth is resilient, she can take it...

 

Considering a mangrove tank for my next one - on a lighter note - you've inspired me.

[East1]

If you do get, and want to spend a bit more I would suggest mangrove.at, they have some nice plants but shipping from Austria is a bit more.

 

Fair enough, I think that it is possible to densely stock a small tank without unhealthy and distressed fish, it just requires extremely careful attention be paid to fish behavior, aggression and tension, both inter and intra- species, and it's not something that has been explored.

 

I did remove the wrasse, he was more a cave dwelling fish than I'd expected, and I don't think he felt secure enough with the size and distribution of my rock work. It's been replaced by a new shrimp and a tiny canthigaster

[East1]

Chrysiptera damsels are hands down my favourite fish. After my Gramma won a trip to the LFS after having tried to maul my shrimp alongside the valentini, I've now got a trio of Talbot and Yellowbelly damsels coexisting happily. There isn't any aggression, just slight territorialism when one ventures into the wrong side of the tank. They actually have the tank split into two halves and hang out as a trio in both. I'm noticing more aggression on the C. Flavissimus though as she grows, and she may be replaced with a more docile dwarf if it continues, I'm thinking a small coral beauty.

 

[JR!]

talbots have always been my favorite. had a mated pair for a really long time

[East1]

Fun tank stat: It's taken me 98 alkalinity tests over 4-ish months to calibrate the dosing regimen to a point where I'm comfortable to leave the tank more than 3 days without testing.

 

 

That brown acro at the back (I think it's a nasuta) was getting a nice turquoise sheen and lavender tips but I think making the lighting less blue and more ±8000k has made it lose it's colour. It doesn't bug me though, thing grows well. I'm pretty happy with my coral colours, I could do better but :effort:

[Odyssey350kc]

Awesome looking cube. Packed with life.

[East1]

It's what I've always loved about marine aquariums - The absolutely insane variety of small critters that exist around the reef, I wanted to recreate it in a way that the tank is 'interesting' when viewed up close (even through the Ogles Mesoscope) and from a distance with no change in activity. I've done that using an aquascaping pattern that allows for many gaps that show deeper portions of the reef, combined with dense stocking of both larger, more active fish with trimma and eviota gobies to give the same busy interesting feel at a smaller scale.

 

In other news, one of my trimma gobies went missing 2 weeks ago, I found him today in a tiny container I use for acclimation (about 250ml) of cold old seawater that I'd forgotten about on the floor. He's still alive, somehow!

 

I celebrated by cleaning the tank and pruning and adjusting some of the coral placements.

 

[tanacharison]

Beautiful tank!

[JR!]

can we get photos of the filter system you run? thanks so much beautiful reef btw

[East1]

I keep trying to avoid posting pictures of my sump cus it's actually 1000 gallons of seawater in a series of bath tubs.

jk.

 

it's messy as hell, mostly DIY and has about 4.5" of clearance in the tiny cabinet I've got it in. I'll take a picture when I get home tonight, but it's never been siphoned and has all the liverock rubble and dead coral skeletons I have stewing in it. I'm trying to lower expectations here, is it working?

[JR!]

Hahah sometimes the most ugly just work the best.

[Grath]

That´s a beautifull tank.!

[East1]

Okay, here is the mess that is my sump. I did say it was difficult to access due to limited forethought into the cabinet I bought. I'm planning on getting one double the height and re-doing the sump system when I"m done with finals.

 

 

The skimmer is actually accessed from the rear (heh) and I took the opportunity to remove the cup for cleaning. I usually let the intake suck in water for about half an hour once a week to stop any build up in the venturi.

 

Finally, My tank gets some sunlight in the afternoon thanks to our heatwaves, so I managed to get a really nice picture!

 

[East1]

I need a better camera

[Jellyingabout]

How did you go about growing the mangrove, I would love one in my tiny pico and have a few growing in a pot of water at the moment but i just can't seem to get them to anchor onto my rock?

[East1]

I actually never intended for mine to attach to any rock, and for the first 6 months it was just on my windowsill in a plastic pot that I'd fill with water. If you want to get them to anchor to rock, the best way is to look up root over rock bonsai training guides, the gist is that you wrap the roots over a rock with some cling film, submerged that in soil and as the plant grows roots downward, it'll be forced to adhere to the rock structure by the cling film.

 

Alternatively you can use garden wire to support the plant while the roots grow as normal and attach to the rock, either should work fine

[1.0reef]

Yeah, it pulls mostly thick gunk but I feed 4-5 times a day on top of dosing phyto/reef roids and amino acids.

I really like the dense reef look, I'm probably gonna upgrade with the angelfish growing, She won't be this small in 3 months

 

 

I'm of the school of thought that water quality is more important than tank size, you're still taking an animal with no limits and putting it in a box, you want that box to encourage it's health and mimic it's surrounds, most reef-associated life has a territory measured in square inches so it doesn't much impact, Tangs and larger fish are a different boat.

 

either way, an adult lemonpeel, I'd fully agree, they grow to about the size of most Majestic angels that get shipped out, it's impressive for a 'dwarf', The wrasse I agree with to a lesser degree, fairy wrasses hang about in the high flow and don't really swim around, they just like unobstructed water. Either way, this tank will probably be upgraded in a few months as it's younger sibling.

The problem with so many fish, is that is can easily turn into a bloodbath. Just ask the guy in Hong Kong who had his Kingii die after an infection caused partly by the aggressive tankmates.

Especially with the Latz, plus the adult fish will need a lot more space. For now it's fine though.