Which would you do? Established reef with pics.

[Skuba]

Tank is 2 years old. 27g DT, 8g display fuge, rs-75 sump.

My display fuge is slowly turning more into a pico with macros, so I was thinking of hanging a ac70 I'm not using or plumbing a container next to my sump with chaeto, but was reading about algae scrubbers. Also read ATS produce more nutrients and pods for a mandarin than chaeto. With my compact sump area a ATS seems like a nice option. So I'm looking for opinions from people who've used both.

Stocking wise I have a yellow corrise wrasse, pair of snowflakes, pair of Bengai cardinals, prawn goby, barred goby and a true perc in the fuge.

I probably overfeed a little too and wouldn't mind another fish or two. Just upgraded my skimmer to a vertex omega 130.

Sump

Display

Fuge

[Skuba]

Another option is swapping skimmers to a smaller tunze 9004 I have laying around so I can setup a ball of chaeto in my sump

[Archaic37]

Another option is swapping skimmers to a smaller tunze 9004 I have laying around so I can setup a ball of chaeto in my sump

I would keep what you have now. Downsizing a skimmer for a small chaeto ball will increase your nutrients and not really breed enough pods.

 

I would look into a small ATS that you can run externally. Alternatively you can add some more display macro like dragons breath, feather caulerpa etc. to the display fuge (which already looks pretty cool).

 

Nice filter sock by the way

[Skuba]

I would keep what you have now. Downsizing a skimmer for a small chaeto ball will increase your nutrients and not really breed enough pods.

 

I would look into a small ATS that you can run externally. Alternatively you can add some more display macro like dragons breath, feather caulerpa etc. to the display fuge (which already looks pretty cool).

 

Nice filter sock by the way

Lol they're working good. I had more macros I gotta reorder some. I have feather in there but just trimmed everything bc it grows fairly quick

[Skuba]

Anyone else?

[farkwar]

Anyone else?

 

That skimmer you have pulls out x^n more poop than chaeto ever will.

 

That Vertex is night and day better than that Tunze skimmer.

 

If you do pull the Vertex, I would be interested in buying it from you (for a fair price).

[Skuba]

That skimmer you have pulls out x^n more poop than chaeto ever will.That Vertex is night and day better than that Tunze skimmer.If you do pull the Vertex, I would be interested in buying it from you (for a fair price).

Yea it's a beast. Still getting it dialed in. It was a real challenge getting it in that sump without vibrating insanely loud. Got it fairl quiet now. If I were to pull it I'd save it for my next build. The tunze I never used it came with a setup I had picked up n sold. The other skimmer I was running was a psk100 eshopps.

But ultimately I know the vertex is pulling the poop. But would chaeto or a ats benefit me for generating pods and trace elements?

 

That skimmer you have pulls out x^n more poop than chaeto ever will.That Vertex is night and day better than that Tunze skimmer.If you do pull the Vertex, I would be interested in buying it from you (for a fair price).

Yea it's a beast. Still getting it dialed in. It was a real challenge getting it in that sump without vibrating insanely loud. Got it fairl quiet now. If I were to pull it I'd save it for my next build. The tunze I never used it came with a setup I had picked up n sold. The other skimmer I was running was a psk100 eshopps.

But ultimately I know the vertex is pulling the poop. But would chaeto or a ats benefit me for generating pods and trace elements?

[farkwar]

Chaeto can't produce trace elements, it will use them though.

 

Just buy the Red Sea color pack, its only $20(or equivalency). Think of it as a multi vitamin. 1ml per day will last you 100 days. Follow the directions though.

 

You have thousands of pods, already, in that 27+8 system, I would bet.

 

You can quiet thevskimmer by making sure it doesnt touch anything. Buy some neoprene off ebay, cut it up and put between anywhere it touches anything if its too tight.

 

http://www.redseafish.com/coral-coloration-program/coral-colors-abcd-supplement-pack/https://www.google.com/search?redir_esc=&client=tablet-android-att-us&hl=en-US&safe=images&oe=utf-8&q=red%20sea%20colors%20abcd&source=android-browser-suggest&qsubts=1411143319148&action=devloc

[Skuba]

 

Your correct I do see plenty of pods in there but not enough to feel comfortable with a mandarin.

I've read mixed reviews on the Red Sea colors, the past month I've been using acro power and the couple sps I have seem to like it, softies been enjoying a light weekly dose of kent lugols solution also.

The skimmer I quieted down with a split piece of hose wedged in until I get neoprene. Do I need to do anything with the neoprene before adding it? Like a soak in case it releases and phosphates like some plastic does.

 

Chaeto can't produce trace elements, it will use them though.

 

Just buy the Red Sea color pack, its only $20(or equivalency). Think of it as a multi vitamin. 1ml per day will last you 100 days. Follow the directions though.

 

You have thousands of pods, already, in that 27+8 system, I would bet.

 

You can quiet thevskimmer by making sure it doesnt touch anything. Buy some neoprene off ebay, cut it up and put between anywhere it touches anything if its too tight.

 

http://www.redseafish.com/coral-coloration-program/coral-colors-abcd-supplement-pack/https://www.google.com/search?redir_esc=&client=tablet-android-att-us&hl=en-US&safe=images&oe=utf-8&q=red%20sea%20colors%20abcd&source=android-browser-suggest&qsubts=1411143319148&action=devloc

[BulkRate]

You'll never have enough breeding in that smaller system to support a mandarin indefinitely on pods alone... they can starve in even larger tanks. The key to keeping these fish for the 90% of those who've tried and not failed seems to be to get them trained onto SOME other staple food for long-term success.

 

That said, having a separate macro fuge for pods to breed in & that you can also dose supplemental ones into isolated from the mandarin's foraging area is a huge plus. If circulation alone doesn't get enough of them from the fuge into your display you can always do the "pod condo" or scrubby sponge trick to move a population from one tank to the other in bulk. Even with my weaning comment above, having copepods to hunt and provide sustenance in between meals will lead to a happier, healthier fish and make that 1-2 feedings a day less stressful on you both.

 

It would not be a bad idea to add yet more macroalgae ot that fuge or let your existing stuff grow out more... as farkwar pointed out you're not going to get as much raw "cleaning power" out of it as you will your skimmer - tanks that depend entirely on macroalgae (and xenia) for soaking up all surplus organics typically have to run with 2x/3x or more the display volume packed with the stuff. Not saying every bit won't have some benefit... plus it looks cool. Just realize what's doing what before you make changes to your filtration.

 

AND even that said... I think your fuge looks better than some people's main display tank. Good luck!

[Skuba]

 

Thank you for the compliment, if I can only photograph my display as good as the fuge lol. It grows out of control and then doesn't look as good so it's trimmed in the pic, but the feathers grow fast like a jungle so much so I can barely give away halimeda, feather caulerpa or Xenia for free locally.

The mandarin is a wish list item, but not definite. I would want to train it on frozen but a pod factory as a backup plan is something is want in case he refuses frozen.

As far as a skimmer I have no intentions of removing, the mention of swapping to a smaller tunze would be just to be able to put a ball of chaeto in my sump, but this vertex has been pulling out stuff that will make you cross eyed when the lid is opened and it hits your nose so I can't see myself removing it.

Ill look into the RS coral color program as farkwar reccomended.

So I guess now its a question of adding a ac70 or diy hang on with chaeto to my

Sump or make a ATS?

 

You'll never have enough breeding in that smaller system to support a mandarin indefinitely on pods alone... they can starve in even larger tanks. The key to keeping these fish for the 90% of those who've tried and not failed seems to be to get them trained onto SOME other staple food for long-term success.

 

That said, having a separate macro fuge for pods to breed in & that you can also dose supplemental ones into isolated from the mandarin's foraging area is a huge plus. If circulation alone doesn't get enough of them from the fuge into your display you can always do the "pod condo" or scrubby sponge trick to move a population from one tank to the other in bulk. Even with my weaning comment above, having copepods to hunt and provide sustenance in between meals will lead to a happier, healthier fish and make that 1-2 feedings a day less stressful on you both.

 

It would not be a bad idea to add yet more macroalgae ot that fuge or let your existing stuff grow out more... as farkwar pointed out you're not going to get as much raw "cleaning power" out of it as you will your skimmer - tanks that depend entirely on macroalgae (and xenia) for soaking up all surplus organics typically have to run with 2x/3x or more the display volume packed with the stuff. Not saying every bit won't have some benefit... plus it looks cool. Just realize what's doing what before you make changes to your filtration.

 

AND even that said... I think your fuge looks better than some people's main display tank. Good luck!

 

I also forgot to mention I have a sort of natural fuge in my DT, a nice population of halimeda grew from my rock and took over my sandbed in a back corner. It actually looks pretty cool and natural. Ill snap some pics later. Not sure how much nutrients it sucks up, but it sure does suck my calcium n alk up

[farkwar]

AcroPower are amino acids(rocket fuel). Not trace elements.

 

 

What mixed reviews of Red Sea Colors are you referring to? Anyway, you have a myriad choice to choose from, its available.

 

 

Agree with mandarin pod thing, it will deplete your pod population in a day or two.

You need to have one that eats a food you supply.

[BulkRate]

I have a mandarin in my sumpless/fugeless macro/softy 9-gallon tank. and a whole lotta clean-up crew. The fish has been doing well since late November/early December of last year and was effectively live-foods only when added (may have lost training at LFS or during stress of rehoming or may never have been - I ignored my better judgement as everything else was perfect about her). I still dose in a bottle of pods every now and then just to give her something to hunt or to pad out feeding during a vacation.

 

If I were you I'd let your macro get to be 3-4" before pruning & maybe look into adding ulva to the mix in your fuge to get all you can out of it as a copepod breeding ground. Then look into sourcing a healthy mandarin - ideally acquire one that's already trained or simply not that picky. And have a decent variety of foods on hand to wean onto.

 

My own experience: just about all but a dead or about-to-be mandarin will go for newly-hatch BBS which doesn't require an elaborate setup - 1/16tsp of eggs in a room-temp dixie cup of tank-salinity salt water will hatch enough for 2-3 feedings. From there move to a mix of live / frozen&enriched (like spirulina brine or such) until you get it to a fully prepared food. From that point it's onto whatever food you deem meets the fish's needs that it'll eat and that you can reliably/affordably obtain. And if you have a healthy specimen from the start you've got some time to do this in. Mine took around 4 weeks if memory serves, and during that time did lose SOME mass, but never got anywhere approaching emaciated like some you see.

 

General rule of thumb for what'll take to prepared (always exceptions): Female > Male, Spotted (picturatus) > Striped (splendidus), "Scooter" > "Mandarin" (yes, both are dragonets... I know... I know).

[Skuba]

Ill look for the reviews again. But most likely they were from people who dosed without following instructions or testing and nuked their tanks.

Zeo tanks are pretty amazing, but I don't think if go through that constant tinkering for a mixed reef, maybe a future sps dominant tank.

Btw, here's the halimeda garden I was talking about

 

AcroPower are amino acids(rocket fuel). Not trace elements.

 

 

What mixed reviews of Red Sea Colors are you referring to? Anyway, you have a myriad choice to choose from, its available.

 

 

Agree with mandarin pod thing, it will deplete your pod population in a day or two.

You need to have one that eats a food you supply.

[Skuba]

Thanks, before I decide on a mandarin ill wait a while, maybe on my local forum when I see a nice trained one that someone's forced to rehome.

The mandarin was just kind of a side thought, my initial post of adding a hob fuge or ats to my sump was mainly because when I let the 8 gallon grow wild it doesn't look as nice IMO, but when it's pruned looks like a nice natural little reef to compliment my 27.

Here's an example of what it looks like in maybe 10 days or so of pruning.

 

If I were you I'd let your macro get to be 3-4" before pruning & maybe look into adding ulva to the mix in your fuge to get all you can out of it as a copepod breeding ground. Then look into sourcing a healthy mandarin - ideally acquire one that's already trained or simply not that picky. And have a decent variety of foods on hand to wean onto.

 

My own experience: just about all but a dead or about-to-be mandarin will go for newly-hatch BBS which doesn't require an elaborate setup - 1/16tsp of eggs in a room-temp dixie cup of tank-salinity salt water will hatch enough for 2-3 feedings. From there move to a mix of live / frozen&enriched (like spirulina brine or such) until you get it to a fully prepared food. From that point it's onto whatever food you deem meets the fish's needs that it'll eat and that you can reliably/affordably obtain. And if you have a healthy specimen from the start you've got some time to do this in. Mine took around 4 weeks if memory serves, and during that time did lose SOME mass, but never got anywhere approaching emaciated like some you see.

 

General rule of thumb for what'll take to prepared (always exceptions): Female > Male, Spotted (picturatus) > Striped (splendidus), "Scooter" > "Mandarin" (yes, both are dragonets... I know... I know).

 

I actually had a pretty nice variety of macros originally, ulva, codium, red grape, dragons breath, scroll, and blue octhodes, but I tried a mantis that wreaked havoc in there digging constantly and lost some. The dragons breath was definitely nicest looking, especially with the blue octhodes contrasting with that bright red. But it was kind of a pain how it grabbed onto everything and kind of took over the little 8g

[BulkRate]

I wasn't intending to be a mandarin pimp... they're just my favorite fish.

 

By all means hold off and be choosy. I just look at your setup and wish I had the flexibility to put together such a nice DT / display-grade fuse as well.

 

No external to tank plumbing until kids are past the "grab, pull & see what happens" stage!

 

Aso for grabbing onto everything, I suspect you're talking about the ochtodes... I can't get my dragon's breath macro to stay put no matter what I try... If it's not sliding out of superglue, it's fragmenting through zip ties or being shredded by the hermits or dove conchs.

[Skuba]

I wasn't intending to be a mandarin pimp... they're just my favorite fish.

 

By all means hold off and be choosy. I just look at your setup and wish I had the flexibility to put together such a nice DT / display-grade fuse as well.

 

No external to tank plumbing until kids are past the "grab, pull & see what happens" stage!

 

Aso for grabbing onto everything, I suspect you're talking about the ochtodes... I can't get my dragon's breath macro to stay put no matter what I try... If it's not sliding out of superglue, it's fragmenting through zip ties or being shredded by the hermits or dove conchs.

Well thank you, It's a love hate thing. I curse myself for nt building a stand and sump for easier maintenance and not going at least 24" so I could use t5 supplementation with my xr15w but it looks too nice to rip down.

I'm way over due to start a tank thread for this one with close ups and all.

I agree mandarin and jawfish fascinate me.

[Skuba]

 

Aso for grabbing onto everything, I suspect you're talking about the ochtodes... I can't get my dragon's breath macro to stay put no matter what I try... If it's not sliding out of superglue, it's fragmenting through zip ties or being shredded by the hermits or dove conchs.

Yea that dragons breath is a slippery sucker. I found small rubber bands for like baby's or braces with rubble worked best. Also used some red fishing line I had and it held pretty good