New to Saltwater. So many qestions...

[Waterhobit]

So, I have been keeping freshwater aquariums for a couple of years now. I have a 2.6, 10, and 40. Recently I was looking at my 40 gallon long and it's stand, and realized that I have quite a bit of wasted space, in that I have about 4 inches of extra stand in front of and behind my aquarium. If I were to build a custom stand, I could make better use of that space and maybe find a way to squeeze in another aquarium. After looking for only a short period of time I ran across Scorched's thread here, http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/296235-3-foot-office-nano-mr-aqua-12-gallon-long/ and it occurred to me that this is the best its gonna get for that space without building a custom aquarium.

 

So, I have been tossing around some ideas and came up with the following solution. I can build a custom stand that would place my freshwater 40g long in the back of the stand and would allow a Mr. Aqua 12g long to sit in front of it stepped down 10 inches so that both tanks would be visible and accessible, and this would be an excellent time to introduce myself to the salty side of things, and try something different.

 

Here is a rough idea of what it would look like, using pics of my 40g and Scorched's 12g. (hope he doesn't mind)

 

I should be able to make a door in the right side of the cabinet that would allow me to access a sump under the larger tank in the back... and this is as far as I have gotten...

 

 

 

What do yall think of this layout?

 

Is it worth it to plan on using a larger sump like a 20 gallon instead of a 10g? I don't think sumps are usually larger than the show tank, but I imagine it would be beneficial.

 

Can someone explain to me the difference between a sump and refugium. I have heard both terms used, but I am not sure that I completely understand it all.

 

Are corals quarantined like fish, or just washed thoroughly like freshwater plants?

 

How does cycling a new system work in comparison to cycling a new freshwater tank? From what I understand live rock is one of the primary forms of biological filtration, so when live rock is introduced, can/should a fish or two be introduced at the same time?

 

Do corals and anemones contribute to the bio-load of the system, or do they have a more neutral effect on the filtration needs? (other than needing a protein skimmer)

 

I am sure there is alot more that I don't know yet. Any other advice or tips for me?

 

[seabass]

Hello, and welcome to N-R.com.

 

Is it worth it to plan on using a larger sump like a 20 gallon instead of a 10g? I don't think sumps are usually larger than the show tank, but I imagine it would be beneficial.

The size of your sump depends on a few factors (like space in your stand, size of the equipment that will be in it, and if you will house a refugium in it).

Can someone explain to me the difference between a sump and refugium. I have heard both terms used, but I am not sure that I completely understand it all.

A sump is just a tank/container that houses equipment and filters (and/or a refugium). A refugium is a refuge for macro algae, pods, or other livestock (it is often located in the sump).

Are corals quarantined like fish, or just washed thoroughly like freshwater plants?

They can be (and arguably should be) quarantined. However, they are often just dipped to remove pests.

How does cycling a new system work in comparison to cycling a new freshwater tank? From what I understand live rock is one of the primary forms of biological filtration, so when live rock is introduced, can/should a fish or two be introduced at the same time?

No, don't keep fish in the tank when the cycle is becoming established. Let the live rock be the ammonia source. Once ammonia has become undetectable for a week, you can slowly start to add livestock.

Do corals and anemones contribute to the bio-load of the system, or do they have a more neutral effect on the filtration needs?

My rough rule of thumb is if you feed it, then it adds to the bio-load.

[broodc2]

Hey there. Congrats on potentially expanding your hobby interests and moving to salt water. As a converted fresh water guy, I can say from experience that a reef tank has been so much more rewarding/satisfying and challenging at the same time. I'll do my best to answer your questions. Keep in mind I don't hold out to be an expert so these are more or less my anecdotal opinions. Good luck!

 

What do yall think of this layout?

 

I think the concept is cool but the biggest drawback I see from your design is a lack of space for a light and lighting bracket for your reef tank. As you have it laid our currently, any light, even the thin maxspect razor will partially obstruct your view of your planted tank. Also from a design perspective, it will be important to make sure both tanks are on the same lighting schedule or you have a way to separate the lighting from creeping between tanks. A dark period is important for fish and some corals that predominantly feed at night.

 

Is it worth it to plan on using a larger sump like a 20 gallon instead of a 10g? I don't think sumps are usually larger than the show tank, but I imagine it would be beneficial.

 

I think the rule of thumb with a sump and fuge is that the bigger, the better. A larger sump will allow for greater water volume which may help with parameter stability. I don't think it's unheard of to have a sump that is just as big or larger than the display. If you have the room, I say go for the biggest sump you can get.

 

Can someone explain to me the difference between a sump and refugium. I have heard both terms used, but I am not sure that I completely understand it all.

 

Google is your friend. But as a quick and dirty, a sump is just an area to house all of your mechanical and chemical filtration. It's also a convenient place to run ATOs, skimmers, reactors, etc. A refugium derives from the word refuge. From a functional standpoint, most folks use a fuge to maintain pod populations and other detritus-eating critters away from the main display, where they otherwise might be gobbled up and depleted. They can also be used to keep macroalgae which aids in absorbing nutrients. If you run your fuge on an opposite lighting cycle from your display, there is an added benefit of reducing pH swings that can occurs when the lights are on/off. If you plan on keeping macros you will need a lighting source for your fuge.

 

Are corals quarantined like fish, or just washed thoroughly like freshwater plants?

 

There are coral dips available like Revive and Coral Rx that most people use. I think it's good practice to dip each and every coral no matter what the source. I don't have the ability to QT corals at the moment but when I move and have a more permanent living arrangement I will most definitely have a QT tank for corals and one for fish. The issue with most dips is that they are good at removing most pests but they are not effective at killing off eggs of some nasty hitchhikers, like zoa and monti eating nudibranchs. I have also heard that some of these dips are too harsh for delicate corals like acros and other SPS. I think the optimal set up would be to have a QT tank where frags can be placed into after dipping for observation.

 

The same goes for fish. If you can manage, a separate QT tank for fish is highly recommended. There are a number of medications you can use proactively or for preventative purposes and there are others available to cure observed infections. It's important to have a QT tank for fish so sick fish don't infect your other population but also because some medications are copper-based and could have devastating effects on your inverts or other inhabitants if added to the display. There is a good video on youtube by Vivid Aquariums that talks about setting up a QT tank for fish and other medications. Just google and you should find it.

 

How does cycling a new system work in comparison to cycling a new freshwater tank? From what I understand live rock is one of the primary forms of biological filtration, so when live rock is introduced, can/should a fish or two be introduced at the same time?

 

I'm no bioethicist but you will find people who are OK with cycling with fish and there are others who find it cruel and unnecessary to use a fish when cycling. Personally, my fear when setting up my tank was nasty live rock hitch hikers versus ethics. So I used about 90% ceramic rock and used 10% very well-inspected and observed live rock to introduce beneficial bacteria. In order for that bacteria to live and spread, it needs an ammonia source. Some people use a fish, some people use non-living sources (like a piece of table shrimp or fish food), and some people use chemical sources. Personally, I went with the chemical source for both introduction of diverse bacteria and ammonia. I used Dr. Tim's line of products. The Dr. Tim's One and Only contains living nitrifying bacteria and it comes with a bottle of pure ammonia. I like this method because it allowed me to precisely know how much ammonia was in the tank so I could see when the cycle was nearing completion. What I didn't like about the other methods: First, with using a fish, I didn't want to get started in this hobby by killing off a poor fish in the first few days/weeks even if it only cost a couple dollars. Plus I didn't have any food at the time. I didn't go with the table shrimp or fish food because ultimately, the food needs to break down into ammonia before it can be utilized by the bacteria. This can add a substantial amount of time to the cycling process. Plus I've heard it stinks up the room pretty bad.

 

I suggest you just do your research and pick the method that you are most comfortable with.

 

Do corals and anemones contribute to the bio-load of the system, or do they have a more neutral effect on the filtration needs? (other than needing a protein skimmer)

I actually don't know this one all that well but I will google it! I suspect certain LPS that feed on larger pieces of food like scolys and acans also produce some kind of waste and that waste contributes to the bio load.

 

I am sure there is alot more that I don't know yet. Any other advice or tips for me?

 

Everyone will tell you this: Go slow! In this hobby nothing good happens fast. Also, some of the best advice I got, buy quality products first. They may cost more up front but over time you will end up spending even more if you buy shoddy equipment. The shoddy stuff will either break/fail and nuke your tank, become ineffective as your expand or add to your tank, or leave you with zero confidence which leads to nights and days at the office wondering if your tank is blowing up rather than getting work done. It also kind of makes logical sense, right? If you plan on stocking your tank with a few hundred or thousand dollars worth of fish and corals, why would you trust all of that to a $20 heater?

 

Also, get an RO/DI filter and ATO first. Especially if you are going to run an open top. Best early purchases I made. You probably have some semblance of a maintenance schedule with your current tank but most newbs in saltwater become disinterested or fed up with the maintenance portion of the hobby. I for one enjoy doing the maintenance but I also believe in spending money on things that make that maintenance easier. An ATO will give piece of mind and also take care of having to do daily or multiple daily manual top offs. RO/DI water will reduce the likelihood of an algae bloom, which is also a huge frustration among hobbyists. Do it right the first time and you will enjoy this hobby that much more in the long run.

 

Finally, the most basic, but important advice that I was given and I recommend. Do regular water changes, they are vital (for most setups). And do not overfeed.

 

HTH. Good luck OP!

[Waterhobit]

Thanks for the quick replies. I learned quite a bit from those answers and the resulting google searches. I guess I'm pretty set now on using at least a 20g sump with a refugium. I'll run lights on opposite patterns, and will sync the light cycles of the salt and freshwater tanks together. I may lower the front tank by a couple more inches in order to allow extra room for the light, although I will probably get an LED fixture that sits a couple inches above the aquarium. My goal with this setup is to do everything I can before adding corals and fish to ensure the tank's success. This means researching, asking questions, and purchasing the most effective setup I can the first time, without completely breaking the bank. Point taken on the RO/DI and ATO, it is something that I had heard before, and just forgot about.

 

Are there benefits other than cycle time in regards to buying live rock and risking unwanted hitch-hickers, over buying dry rock and using TSS or Dr. Timms.

[seabass]

Are there benefits other than cycle time in regards to buying live rock and risking unwanted hitch-hickers, over buying dry rock and using TSS or Dr. Timms.

Unless you really build up the biofilter on the dry rock, live rock will support a larger initial bio-load. Along with some unwanted hitchhikers, you'll get a lot of diverse beneficial life. However, it does cost more, and there is some risk involved.

 

However, you do tend to get some beneficial life on coral rocks/frags; but again, there is some risk in getting unwanted pests.

[Waterhobit]

I'm guessing a mix of the two would also work well, giving beneficial hitch-hickers, which can spread, but with a lowered cost. After looking over some other threads on the debate, I think I have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth avoiding live rock since most pests will come in on corals anyway.

 

I have been looking at stocking options and have seen what seems to be conflicting opinions on damselfish which I find rather attractive. It looks like most varieties stay with the 2-3 inch range which seems ideal for a tank this size, but they may or may not be aggressive, and they may or may not be recommended for tanks under 30g. Anybody have experience? Would a single damsel have issues with other common options like clowns or gobies?

 

Also I see alot of differentiation online between soft corals, SPS, and LPS, but my local stores don't seem to differentiate this way. Are there any concerns with mixing the types. I understand that soft corals tend to be hardier and SPS is usually the hardest to keep, but can they all be mixed and matched?

 

Are there certain types of corals to avoid in a nano setup for reasons such as growth rate, invasiveness, ext.?

 

My wife likes the idea of having a clown and BTA, but I have read that hosted clowns tend to stay very close to their anemone, and am wondering if I should be concerned about him not being as interesting as a result. Also would an anemone's movements become a problem in such a small tank?

 

Does anyone have specific suggestions regarding LED lighting for such a shallow aquarium? Ideally, the lighting should have blue and white LEDs independently dimmable, customization would be great, but not as important as functionality. I suppose that I should probably address this question in a separate thread.

 

What should be physically added to a new refugium other than macroalgae and some live rock?

[seabass]

Would a single damsel have issues with other common options like clowns or gobies?

For a nano, I'd keep a Damsel as the only fish. If you want a community, stick with a False Perc (or pair), and other nano fish like Gobies. Damsels and Clownfish are related and tend not to get along in nano tanks.

 

Also I see alot of differentiation online between soft corals, SPS, and LPS, but my local stores don't seem to differentiate this way. Are there any concerns with mixing the types.

They can compete in various ways (stinging, chemical warfare, or just outgrowing other types of coral). Besides that, their ideal environment (like lighting, flow, and amount of nutrients in the water) aren't the same.

 

My wife likes the idea of having a clown and BTA, but I have read that hosted clowns tend to stay very close to their anemone, and am wondering if I should be concerned about him not being as interesting as a result. Also would an anemone's movements become a problem in such a small tank?

A host anemone can be more demanding (harder to keep) than certain types of coral. They can also grow quite large and move about the tank if unhappy. They can pose problems for small (and especially new) tanks.

 

Clownfish sometimes stick to certain areas of a tank. They are still interesting, but having other fish in your tank that exhibit other behaviors will add to the general interest of the tank.

 

What should be physically added to a new refugium other than macroalgae and some live rock?

Many refugiums are just Chaeto macro algae. They are mostly used to consume nutrients in the water. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish with it.

[Waterhobit]

Ok, what about media rectors. Is one really necessary. I understand that they can be filled with different things based on what is required, be it carbon, calcium, or several others. Is having one necessary? What are the most common types of media used? What signs might indicate that a particular media should be added?

[seabass]

A media reactor isn't necessary. There are actually different reactors for different types of media (for example a calcium reactor and bio-pellet reactor are different). Probably the most common type is a carbon/GFO reactor: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-gfo-carbon-reactor-single-1.html

You might run GFO if phosphate levels are creeping up, while carbon can help clear yellow water.

[Mariaface]

I just reintroduced carbon into my tank (as chemipure, because I got rid of my reactor when I moved), and it turns out my acanthastrea has been torturing the rest of the corals faster than I could keep up with the chemical warfare via water changes. That's another benefit to carbon. If you have a sump and the space, a small reactor would be a great idea. Try to go easy on the media so you don't suck nutrients out of the water too quickly, and also keep in mind that media gets covered in bacteria over time so smaller amounts changed out more frequently will be better than larger amounts left in for months at a time.

 

You may not see phosphate levels rise on tests, but algae growth is a good sign of it.

[Waterhobit]

Another question: If I place a glass cover of the tank to prevent evap and jumpers, is their a concern over letting the tank breath?

[seabass]

Gas exchange can be a concern. A mesh top is typically better for jumpers. If the goal is to limit evaporation, then a glass top is the way to go. Having a sump with a skimmer should provide adequate gas exchange.