Saltwater Ich? (Cryptocaryon Irritans)

[AthenaAndApollo]

So just this morning I noticed a plethora of small white dots on both my clownfish. They're even on the eyes of the female. I'm assuming its saltwater ich, as I had to deal with it in my freshwater tank a few months ago. I will try and get a picture of it and post it here later. It looks literally like little grains of sand have stuck to them. What can I do to treat it and how do I know what it is? I'm so worried for my little pair! I will post a picture ASAP.

[AthenaAndApollo]

[hey]

Ya tht would be ich, are you familiar with treatment of it and the fallow period the main display needs to become ich free>?

[AthenaAndApollo]

I'm going to my LFS to get some treatment for them. I don't have a quarantine tank, so I don't know what to do.

[AthenaAndApollo]

I have a 5 gallon freshwater that I am currently disassembling, because my pleco got too big (it was just him, lol) so maybe I could use that as a quarantine tank. I'm all about treating the fish, but how do I treat the tank?

[MrNanoReef]

All the liquid ICH treatments don't work so don't bother wasting your money. One way to get rid of ich is hypo salinity for 8 weeks and leave your main tank fishless for that same amount of time, if you don't do it this way when you introduce new fish in they'll get ich as well, I've been thru this 9 months ago which forced me to setup a QT tank for good. You can pickup a cheap 10gallon tank at walmart or petsmart, they're usually $15, get a HOB filter like Aquaclear 30 or 50, a heater, that's it. Use half water from your main tank and mix up new water to fill the rest, use media from your current filter to seed the tank. Since the QT tank is new you want to keep testing for ammonia spike and keep doing water change 20% each day until it's fully cycled, replace with fresh RO/DI water because you're lowering salinity at the same time until it reach 1.008-1.009 and keep it there for 8 weeks, if you can do multiple water change in one day at smaller amount it's less stress for the fishes. You'll need to read up on Hypo treatment: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f184/hyposalinity-a-cure-for-ich-126949.html

 

There is also copper treatment which is faster but you'll never want to QT your corals and invert in the same tank or it will kill them. You still need to leave your main tank for 8 weeks anyway so why not do hypo in a QT tank. Hope that helps.

[AthenaAndApollo]

*sigh* okay, well I just want my fish to get better, but don't want to kill all the inverts and corals. I'll set up the QT today, and move all the fish to it. So after 8 weeks I can put the fish back and everything will be fine? I don't need to dose anything in the Main Display tank?

[AthenaAndApollo]

and what about my inverts? I have a fire shrimp, cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, and an assortment of snails and hermits. I've read that the cleaner shrimp will eat ich, but I'm not depending on that to do the job. Do I leave them in the tank, and just put the fish in the QT?

[MrNanoReef]

*sigh* okay, well I just want my fish to get better, but don't want to kill all the inverts and corals. I'll set up the QT today, and move all the fish to it. So after 8 weeks I can put the fish back and everything will be fine? I don't need to dose anything in the Main Display tank?

Yep! After 8 weeks, your main tank should be clear of ich without any fishes, I assumed those are the only fishes? You'll need to remove and treat them both even if the other one doesn't have it yet. No dosing in DT or QT tank, you'll only need to keep the QT maintained at 1.008-1.009 salinity, keep temp at 80F. After I did this, my clowns have been very healthy for over 8 months.

[NirvanaandTool]

Just the fish in QT, everything else stays in the DT to fallow for 8 weeks.

 

I recommend hypo as well. It's my tried and true QT method. In fact I do it to all newcomers now as a preventative. Once you get ich and beat it, you'll want to make sure you never get it again.

[MrNanoReef]

and what about my inverts? I have a fire shrimp, cleaner shrimp, emerald crab, and an assortment of snails and hermits. I've read that the cleaner shrimp will eat ich, but I'm not depending on that to do the job. Do I leave them in the tank, and just put the fish in the QT?

Yes, leave the invert and corals in the main tank, without the fishes as host ich will die off on their own after 8 weeks. If you get any new fishes, inverts or corals later on, you'll want to QT them as well.

[AthenaAndApollo]

Yes, leave the invert and corals in the main tank, without the fishes as host ich will die off on their own after 8 weeks.

Okay, this is sounding much easier now, lol. Unfortunately no, I have other fish in the tank as well however they are not showing signs. I'm going to put them in the QT as well. However, since my Freshwater tank is only 5 gallons, I'm afraid to stuff everyone into that QT. I have a coral beauty, sleeper banded goby, and a lawnmower blenny. All three are extremely hard to catch, because the blenny hides under my rock work. I don't think theres any other way to catch them other than to take everything out of the tank (but my corals are attached to my rock work so this is gonna be difficult) I don't think I have room for a 10 gallon tank, so would a 5 suffice? I'll get a 10 if I really need to, but prefer not to.

[MrNanoReef]

Okay, this is sounding much easier now, lol. Unfortunately no, I have other fish in the tank as well however they are not showing signs. I'm going to put them in the QT as well. However, since my Freshwater tank is only 5 gallons, I'm afraid to stuff everyone into that QT. I have a coral beauty, sleeper banded goby, and a lawnmower blenny. All three are extremely hard to catch, because the blenny hides under my rock work. I don't think theres any other way to catch them other than to take everything out of the tank (but my corals are attached to my rock work so this is gonna be difficult) I don't think I have room for a 10 gallon tank, so would a 5 suffice? I'll get a 10 if I really need to, but prefer not to.

Well I would go for a 10g, I was at petsmart and deciding between the two as well but went for 10 gallon, give you much more room if you want to QT inverts and lots of coral frags later on. Also bigger water volume is easier to maintain salinity level during hypo treatment, you don't want it to swing to 1.010 cause you'll have to start over again. I found a way to catch fish easier, you use a small plastic cup on one end and a net on the other end, while you chase them, try to get them to swim into your plastic cup and scoop them up toward the water surface and out, if you only use a net you'll just chase them around.

[AthenaAndApollo]

Well I would go for a 10g, I was at petsmart and deciding between the two as well but went for 10 gallon, give you much more room if you want to QT inverts and lots of coral frags later on. Also bigger water volume is easier to maintain salinity level during hypo treatment, you don't want it to swing to 1.010 cause you'll have to start over again. I found a way to catch fish easier, you use a small plastic cup on one end and a net on the other end, while you chase them, try to get them to swim into your plastic cup and scoop them up toward the water surface and out, if you only use a net you'll just chase them around.

Okay, I'll see if I can get a 10 today. They have those packaged boxes with HOB Filters already included, so I might just do that, and then take the carbon out and replace it with some of my filter media, I guess. Or Would I need to take the carbon out if I were just doing the hypo salinity? I'll try to catch them when I get the tank.

However, if it were absolutely necessary, could I keep them in the 5 for now? I'm a little short on money, and a little short on time, because of how many white spots are on my clowns. I'm a little scared that if I don't get them in the QT soon, they'll die.

[MrNanoReef]

if they just got them, they will be fine for a while. If I were you, I will setup that 5g tank immediately and put all the fishes in there and start lowering the salinity, the way I do it is take out about 1-2gallon of water every 30-40 min and replace with fresh RO/DI water at the same temp as the tank water, keep checking salinity until you reach 1.010 in a 2-3 days period, then finally replace with little bit of water until it reaches 1.008, i left it at 1.008 because if the water evap it will only go up to 1.009 at the most before I top it off, its better if you have ATO though. You'll want accurate salinity reading with a refractometer, if it gets above 1.009 ich can survive and the treatment becomes useless. Once you're at 1.008 and stable, then go grab the 10g tank, mix up 5 gallon new water and heat it up for 24 hours, then swich them over. I had to switch tank this way because my 10g from wal-mart was leaking, but the same apply in your situation. yeah I know, It's so sad to see them get sick and I feel responsible to getting them better again, my pairs has been very healthy for over 8 months. Good luck!

[AthenaAndApollo]

Since I am at school, I'm unable to do it until I get back. My parents went to the LFS and the guy there gave us Herbtana to dose. He said its safe for corals and inverts..

[MrNanoReef]

Every ich treatment in a bottle is said to be reef safe but it doesn't work, there is point other than polluting the water and stressing out the fishes more. It's up to you but I wouldn't do it.

[NirvanaandTool]

Since I am at school, I'm unable to do it until I get back. My parents went to the LFS and the guy there gave us Herbtana to dose. He said its safe for corals and inverts..

 

Snake oil.

 

Does nothing.

 

Only sure fire ways to treat ich are hyposalinity, copper, quanine sulfate or the tank transfer method. All require a separate hospital tank.

[Tamberav]

There is also copper treatment which is faster but you'll never want to QT your corals and invert in the same tank or it will kill them. You still need to leave your main tank for 8 weeks anyway so why not do hypo in a QT tank. Hope that helps.

 

Ever tried it? I have treated with cupramin in my 5g many times as a QT and now currently house corals and shrimp in it.

 

My understanding is copper is inert and shouldn't permanently stick to glass/silicone. According to Seachem's FAQ, they are not aware of any copper that sticks to silicone.

 

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq12

 

Another myth circulating in the hobby imo. Just thoroughly rinse/scrub your equipment after use.

 

Since I am at school, I'm unable to do it until I get back. My parents went to the LFS and the guy there gave us Herbtana to dose. He said its safe for corals and inverts..

 

Does not work. Marine Ich is not even listed as one of the things it treats so not even herbtana is claiming to work for marine ich It only has freshwater ich listed on the bottle.

 

This will tell you everything you need to know: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

[MrNanoReef]

Ever tried it? I have treated with cupramin in my 5g many times as a QT and now currently house corals and shrimp in it.

 

My understanding is copper is inert and shouldn't permanently stick to glass/silicone. According to Seachem's FAQ, they are not aware of any copper that sticks to silicone.

 

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq12

 

Another myth circulating in the hobby imo. Just thoroughly rinse/scrub your equipment after use.

Never did but im sure if you clean the entire tank/filter/etc and start new, then it shouldn't be a problem but then the tank need to be cycled again? since you're removing all the media filter.

[Tamberav]

Never did but im sure if you clean the entire tank/filter/etc and start new, then it shouldn't be a problem but then the tank need to be cycled again? since you're removing all the media filter.

 

I am just saying that the tank won't be ruined by using copper in it.

[AthenaAndApollo]

Well, I quarantined them and put copper in that QT tank, it worked until the male died. I took the female back to the LFS and bought a what I believe to be, Blood Orange clown pair. However, I don't think the employee knew for sure that they were paired because they're both roughly the same size, and one of them looked beaten really badly. I QT'd them for 24 hours, then put them in the tank a week later (which the LFS owner said to do.) So now one of them has ich, so she's back in the QT, and the other one has stayed in the DT because it developed a popeye after being mauled by the other clown. That one is doing just fine, really happy, hosted to the anemone I have. I'm scared to put the one in the QT back into the Display Tank after a few weeks because I don't want them to fight so I might just take one back?

I don't know how long I should keep her in the QT until its safe to put her in the DT.

[Tamberav]

Well, I quarantined them and put copper in that QT tank, it worked until the male died. I took the female back to the LFS and bought a what I believe to be, Blood Orange clown pair. However, I don't think the employee knew for sure that they were paired because they're both roughly the same size, and one of them looked beaten really badly. I QT'd them for 24 hours, then put them in the tank a week later (which the LFS owner said to do.) So now one of them has ich, so she's back in the QT, and the other one has stayed in the DT because it developed a popeye after being mauled by the other clown. That one is doing just fine, really happy, hosted to the anemone I have. I'm scared to put the one in the QT back into the Display Tank after a few weeks because I don't want them to fight so I might just take one back?

I don't know how long I should keep her in the QT until its safe to put her in the DT.

 

You can't put fish in the DT for 8 weeks. Ich will live in your DT for awhile so when you added then new fish, they became infected.

 

You need to remove the clown in the DT and leave it without fish for 8 weeks (this will give you 99% chance that the ich will die off without a host).

 

It is a huge pain but pretty much all you can do to prevent new fish you buy from getting ich.

[AthenaAndApollo]

What do I do to keep the "pair" from fighting? If I put them in the QT together, then the one already in there will try and kill the other one.. Should I take one back?

[Tamberav]

What do I do to keep the "pair" from fighting? If I put them in the QT together, then the one already in there will try and kill the other one.. Should I take one back?

 

How big are they? It's possible if they aren't juvi's that they are both female in which case... they will never pair. Also sometimes clowns just won't get along even if one is female and one male. Some bickering is normal while they work things out but if one is getting injured badly then I would take one back. If you try to re-pair one of them... then I would try a baby clown. Make the size difference obvious. I would first cure the Ich before getting any more fish though.