ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have a 29 gallon hex with about 45 lbs of live rock and 5 gallons of live sand. Aqua top 256gph circulation pump Aqua top 150 watt heater 30 gallon mechanical hang on with carbon bag only "Power glo" t8 15" I think My goal is to affordable as possible have a sufficient system to begin adding corals and fish but I do know know enough about lighting and couldn't find anything that could suggest what kind of light for such a tank. Just retrieved the rock tonight and would like to also know the necessity of a skimmer at the moment or when to begin skimming. All information is greatly appreciated! Will add a picture once I figure this out. Really just need to know if I am on the right track! Link to comment
joy13 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You don't need a skimmer if you are doing softies and lps for a tank that size, However you have to keep up on your water changes. The light will depend on the type of corals you are wanting to keep it is better to buy once and not have to upgrade to something. If you go with bulbs you will have to replace them every 6 to 10 months usually. They cost more to run than led. I have had everything from compact fluorescent, t5 and metal halide before getting some leds. The first year it paid for itself because the cost of electricity and replacement bulbs. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Thanks so much would you happen to know what the light I have is sufficient for if anything at all. The packaging reads that it's a 14 watt 15" t8. Shows high outputs of everything but reds and uv. Edit: Beginning to answer my own questions apologies.... Funny thing called research Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 In order to know for sure how good the light is, you'll need to figure out the PAR readings on it. I'd suggest taking a look at nanobox or reefbreeders for lights, since they'll help you out with PAR and the like, though coralcompulsion has nice, standard-socket PAR30 and -38 bulbs. Not sure how well they'd light up a 29 gallon, though; dimensions would be useful. What's the GPH on the hang-on-back filter? If you're cycling, it's best to just run filter floss. Afterwards, though, when you've got an actual bioload, carbon can be added to take on some of the toll. Unless you're trying to soft cycle, and keep things on your live rock alive. Then by all means, carbon away and make sure that you introduce additional bioload slowly. You'll know the cycle's done when you have nitrates but not ammonia or nitrite. Unless you've got photosynthetic animals in there, keeping the lights off will help. Things like algae can actually use up ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, and fool you into thinking your beneficial bacteria has built up enough to handle the bioload. Then you get rid of the algae and bam, no way to support livestock. This means you can wait until the cycle's done to upgrade your lighting, if you choose to do so. For the record, carbon may not be the only thing you want to filter with. Getting something like Chemi-Pure Elite (or Blue) will filter out phosphates and add a whole list of benefits on top of straight up carbon filtration, but you're going to find that without a skimmer or reactor, carbon won't quite be enough. Growing a macroalgae will help compete with nuisance algae, but look into your filtration options very closely because there are a lot. Even different grades/efficiencies of the same kinds of media. Good luck! Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 18" x 25" And hang on is 210 gph Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Ah, yeah. With a hex tank, you can probably get away with PAR bulbs or any smaller fixture (given that it's got enough light penetration, or course). Looking at the photo, I just feel I should mention: -Hydrometers can be evil pains. They can be off by quite a bit. If you don't want to go the digital hydrometer route, then a refractometer will be best. -Is that a stick-on thermometer? Those, too, aren't very accurate. A glass thermometer that sticks to the wall from inside will be much, much better. And cheaper, from what I recall. -The airstone. What's it for? It can cause salt creep, and while it does keep water aerated it also speeds up evaporation, so make sure you've got a way to top off with RO/DI water. There's a 'smart ATO' system that's optical and only costs about $150, you may want to look into it. Again, what's the GPH on the HOB filter? You want to make sure the turnover is good enough that the water flows through media often and thoroughly, that way you get plenty of filtration. Link to comment
joy13 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have a couple of reefbreeder lights on my tanks one is the value one which doesn't have a fancy timer to ramp up and down the lights the other has the fancy timer. That is really the only difference in them. For the money they are decent lights. Nanobox lights are fantastic lights. If you decide to go for budget minded leds make sure they are at least dimmable. None of my lights are run over 30 percent on each color at the highest. Someone on the forum is always getting out of the hobby or upgrading so keep your eyes out for something you are needing for your tank. Local forums are always a good place to check for things as well. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Haha not a stick on it is a glass thermometer the scale around it is a squared aluminum thing. Again hob is 210 gph. I am used to freshwater and assumed oxygen rich environment would be beneficial for the biological bacteria establishment. If not I will gladly avoid the problem I imagine salt creep could be. And being completely naive here I am a big fan of high volume canister filtration which is what I use in my 75 gallon cichlid display tank, any way that could be beneficial? And what stages of filtration to use, media, ect...? Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Again I sincerely appreciate your help and advice. Very glad to see this community is very active Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Haha not a stick on it is a glass thermometer the scale around it is a squared aluminum thing. Again hob is 210 gph. I am used to freshwater and assumed oxygen rich environment would be beneficial for the biological bacteria establishment. If not I will gladly avoid the problem I imagine salt creep could be. And being completely naive here I am a big fan of high volume canister filtration which is what I use in my 75 gallon cichlid display tank, any way that could be beneficial? And what stages of filtration to use? Ah, okay. And I must've missed the HOB line there, sorry about that! You should be getting enough oxygen via the filter and powerhead, try and angle the powerhead upwards a bit if the surface isn't agitated enough. Canister filters need to be maintained meticulously and often when it comes to saltwater, otherwise they get really good at bringing up nitrates. I'd say make sure you have a good HOB filter or sump or something along those lines, but if you want a canister filter I'm sure you can make it work. While you're cycling, just mechanical filtration (filter floss that you can use to trap detritus and then throw out) should suffice and is best. Afterwards, your media will depend on what it is you want to remove from the water. Carbon will adsorb organics, medicines, etc. GFO or Phosguard or something along those lines will remove phosphates and stunt algae growth as well as stop high phosphate concentrations from inhibiting calcification of corals. There are different grades/qualities to these filter medias, so picking one can get tough. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Awesome! So: 1. Surface agitation should provide adequate aeration 2. No lights needed while cycling and considering that the sand is even illuminated some half inch down I may have mediocre lighting for now 3. Skimmer (plan to diy) 4. Use filter floss for time being and get ready for managing phosphates And considering what you have mentioned of canisters it doesn't seem ideal Now I will ask what would you recommend for some hardy beginner corals? I imagine 2-3 weeks should cycle pretty the tank pretty well considering the amount of bottom substrate and overload of live rock. Correct? But of course only time will tell. Link to comment
joy13 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I know someone that use a canister filter for years on a 75 gallon tank and was very successful. Make sure you keep it clean and it is overrated for that size tank. HOB filters you want to make sure they are overrated as well on that size tank I would use something like the aquaclear 110. Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Cycling isn't really a matter of time as much as it is a matter of bacterial population. So make sure you're testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You can find pure ammonia (no scents or surfactants) and dose it into the tank until you have a concentration of 2ppm. When your tank can go from 2-3ppm to 0ppm within 24 hours, you'll know you're cycled. After that, some hardy low light corals would be good. I'd suggest cheap zoanthids (radioactive dragon eyes or something like that), but some zoas love melting on you for no good reason. Ricordea florida are good, and decently peaceful! They've also got mouths big enough for target feeding, which is something you'll want practice with. Mushrooms are also low light, but keep in mind that they're more aggressive. They'll send out chemicals meant to aggravate nearby corals, and that's something that you combat through the use of carbon. When you've got a handle on those, pick up test kits for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, and phosphate. Something reliable, that'll measure accurately and precisely. Maybe Salifert or Red Sea Pro? You'll need to keep those parameters stable before you can move on to stony corals, and when you do I suggest trying your hand at LPS (large polyp stony corals). They're less sensitive to water fluctuations than SPS, and tend to enjoy less clean water, so you don't need to be completely meticulous about filtration. Start off with something nubby and less aggressive, like a hammer coral or candy cane coral. Acanthastrea can also be nice, but they're mean, so watch out for them. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 http://m.ebay.com/itm/171442247117?nav=SEARCH Or http://m.ebay.com/itm/261577940953 Any opinions? Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I wouldn't trust the Marineland LEDs, not unless you can get PAR information that tells you they'd grow anything well. The T5HO is an okay option, but keep in mind that you may have to replace the bulbs (and that over time, the cost of bulb replacement will vastly outweigh the cost of getting a good LED fixture to begin with). Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 They say only 130 par at 12" Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Looks like a lot of bang for the bucks... http://www.marinedepot.com/Ecoxotic_E_Series_Full_Spectrum_LED_Light_System_20_Inch_LED_Light_Fixtures-Ecoxotic-XX09400-FILTFILDTN-vi.html Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 How tall is the tank? 130 PAR is enough to grow some lower light LPS. That's not to say that you should definitely get it: If you can save up while the tank is cycling, invest in a light that'll be able to grow anything you may want in the future, and that you can dim down for your needs in the meantime. I purchased the light that you linked to a few months back (the Current USA Marine Orbit, in case that's not still up), and I'm already looking into upgrading them for the future. Right now it's just enough to keep the trumpet, hammer, and acanthastrea happy (at 6", 3", and 3" from the light respectively), as well as some zoas and ricordeas, and my tank is less than 12" tall so I'm getting 50 PAR tops at the sandbed. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Tank is 25" deep, well more like 21-22 with substrate Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 For deeper tanks, you'll need something stronger if you want to put anything near the sandbed. Off the top of my head, I remember PAR measurements for the reefbreeders value/superlux fixtures being pretty amazing, especially with 90 degree optics, for only $200 if you go with the Superlux and save yourself the trouble of two outlets and two external timers. They've got the readings on their website, I suggest checking it out if you haven't already. And you can add/remove optics without voiding the warranty. There are also PAR38 bulbs that may penetrate far enough with the right optics, and Dave over at Nano Box does custom work. Ah! Forgot to mention! Your lid will reflect back some of the light and bring down PAR measurements, so keep that in mind. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Wow the reef breeders stuff is awesome. And affordable Link to comment
Mariaface Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I agree! I should've posted here and asked about lighting so someone could've pointed me at them... But maybe I'll just save up and get them next, assuming I don't get fixated with color channel control and all that fun stuff. Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ok so does anybody know if you can use an automotive refractometer to measure sg of salt water? Most auto ones' scales read in the range Link to comment
ctopher318 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 So no joke I think I am going to use an old 55 gallon I have laying around and make it my sump! Thoughts? Link to comment
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