Battling a Cyano outbreak: source water parameters?

[klick81]

First some info on my tank:

 

14g Biocube, about 10 months old.

 

Livestock: 1 small zoa colony, 1 Clown, 1 Cleaner shrimp, 1 Pom Pom crab, and good size CUC.

 

Hardware: JBJ 1/15 hp chiller, Maxi-Jet 1100 pump, Hydor Koralia 240 circulation pump, Biocube skimmer, and inTank media basket with filter floss, Chemi-Pure Elite, and Seachem Purigen.

 

So as the title states, I've been battling a cyanobacteria outbreak for the last couple of months. I started Red Sea's NO3PO4-X treatment two weeks ago (using Red Sea's Algae Control test kit as well).

 

Before treatment, Nitrates were 4ppm, Phosphates .04ppm. After one week, they dropped to Nitrates 0ppm, Phosphates stayed at .04ppm.

 

Following Red Sea's instructions, I cut the dose by 50%. Today, nitrates are at .25ppm, phosphates at about .03.

 

I went ahead and tested my source water (Catalina sea water sold by my lfs) last week, and it tested at .50 ppm for Nitrates, and .08ppm for phosphates. Is this acceptable for source water? Is the source water also the source of my algae woes?

[ghostgr]

I would say so especially if they are using RODI water. Im using tap water treated with prime right now and have no real algae issues that my CUC cant take care of. Whats your feeding like?

[klick81]

Its not RODI. Its ocean water. I feed a pinch (about 8 pellets) of New Life Spectrum. Also, I top off with distilled water.

So you would say the source water parameters are ok?

[farkwar]

Fine out what makes cyano grow.

 

Then remove those things.

[klick81]

Haha…well it's my understanding that high phosphates is what makes cyano grow. Hence the NOPOX treatment.

 

My question is whether the source water parameters (as described in my initial post) qualify as "high" in nitrates and phosphates to warrant a different water source.

 

Anyone?

[Admonition]

Try using RODI water with a good salt mix and see if your parameters change. This way you have complete control over the "purity" of the water.

[klick81]

Sounds good.

 

This brings me to my next question: I do a 18% weekly water change. Is it okay to start the next water change using RODI water with salt mix at the same percentage, or should I do smaller water changes?

[Admonition]

I would think it depends on which salt mix you plan to use. Each one 'settles' with different parameters. For example, I use Tropic Marine Pro which bottoms out at 8.4 pH, 430 calc, 1350 mag, 8 alk, etc. while most brands will result in 'average' reef parameters, you'll still want to find out what those are.

 

Basically, do whatever level of water change you want, as long as it's not a dramatic change in your normal parameters. Given your current stocking list, I doubt you'll have any issues though.

[farkwar]

Haha…well it's my understanding that high phosphates is what makes cyano grow. Hence the NOPOX treatment.

 

My question is whether the source water parameters...

 

You mention a large CUC.

 

They eat algae, right, algae eat nitrate and phosphate, and potassium. What happens to the algae after the CUC eat it?

 

It becomes CUC poop.

 

What does cyano eat?

 

CUC poop. Thats what it eats, you guessed it correctly.

 

Try an extreme treatment of NoPooP. That will help you get rid of cyano. Are you suctioning the poop out every day? If not, why not?

 

Are you suctioning the cyano out daily? If not, why not.

[klick81]

I would think it depends on which salt mix you plan to use. Each one 'settles' with different parameters. For example, I use Tropic Marine Pro which bottoms out at 8.4 pH, 430 calc, 1350 mag, 8 alk, etc. while most brands will result in 'average' reef parameters, you'll still want to find out what those are.

 

Basically, do whatever level of water change you want, as long as it's not a dramatic change in your normal parameters. Given your current stocking list, I doubt you'll have any issues though.

 

Ok, thanks for that info.

 

You mention a large CUC. They eat algae, right, algae eat nitrate and phosphate, and potassium. What happens to the algae after the CUC eat it? It becomes CUC poop. What does cyano eat? CUC poop. Thats what it eats, you guessed it correctly. Try an extreme treatment of NoPooP. That will help you get rid of cyano. Are you suctioning the poop out every day? If not, why not? Are you suctioning the cyano out daily? If not, why not.

 

Did not know about the CUC poop and algae connection. I'm suctioning out the cyano on a weekly basis - I'll get to work on that on the daily. Thanks for the info.

[Mojado]

Boyd Chemiclean will get rid of cyano with one treatment and a few days.

[klick81]

Thanks Mojado. I'll add that to the arsenal list.

[NaturalViolence]

The source water is not your problem. Both RO/DI and distilled water contain zero nutrients so switching over won't help. Vacumming detritus (including CUC poop) will help but it's a lot of work and you really need to stay on top of it. I would check to make sure your flow is being evenly distributed first. As in no dead spots. Make sure there is a lot of flow over the sand bed and rocks in particular to keep detritus from settling. Get yourself a better skimmer too to remove the suspended detritus after your flow issues are fixed.

 

Previous post I made on this topic:

I had a major cyano problem when I first setup my tank that persisted for 8+ months despite trying virtually everything I can think of. I did eventually fix it. Here are some of the things I tried based on the advice of others.

 

 

 

Things that didn't help or weren't enough:

 

-Increase flow. Everyone says this despite the fact that I can't find anyone online who had a cyano problem, tried this, and actually saw an improvement. This made no difference. Even at 100x turnover with pumps shooting in every direction. In fact the cyano grew best in the areas of highest flow.

 

-Decreased light cycle. No difference. The stuff seems to need very little light to thrive. All it did was reduce coral growth.

 

-Lights out. Killed it. Then it came roaring back within a day as soon as I turned them back on.

 

-Raise magnesium to 1600+. No effect.

 

-Water changes. At one point I was even doing 50% water changes every day on my 30 gallon tank. It did absolutely nothing.

 

-Switch to RO/DI water. No effect.

 

-Change out old bulbs and get bluer bulbs. Nope. Even at 20000K it grows just fine. It grows just as well under them as it does under 6500K.

 

-Reduce feeding. This reduced growth rates but did not kill it. I even tried starving the tank for a week while scrubbing it off. As soon as I resumed feeding it just grew right back. You can't starve this stuff out. It just stops growing until some nutrients are available. And there will always be some available nutrients as your filtration cannot remove 100% of all detritus before it breaks down.

 

-Scrubbing/siphoning. Nope, just grows right back.

 

-Switching from two part to kalkwasser. Nope.

 

-Running GFO. Nope.

 

-Running seachem purgien. Nope

 

-Running activated carbon. Nope.

 

-Running seachem phosguard. Nope.

 

-Wet skimming with a good protein skimmer. Helped, but did not eliminate it.

 

-Get a CUC. Nope. I tried every single animal that is claimed to eat cyano. None of them touched the stuff. No matter how many people try to tell you otherwise I promise you this is the truth. And yes I did try a custom cleanup crew recommended by reefcleaners.

 

-Deeper sand bed. No effect.

 

-And probably more that I can't remember.

 

 

 

Things that helped:

 

-Reduced feeding

 

-Wet skimming

 

-Eliminate dead zones. Rearrange your rockwork if necessary. No matter how much flow your tank has if your rockwork creates deadzones detritus will settle there instead of remaining suspended in the water column until your protein skimmer can remove it.

 

-Discontinue any carbon dosing. Carbon dosing helps promote cyano over algae.

 

-Discontinue any trace supplements. Same as above.

 

-Discontinue any supplements with chelators. Same as above.

 

-Vacuum the sand bed and get more sand sifting organisms. Cyano in my tank would grow over the detritus anywhere detritus settled.

 

-Blast your rocks to remove detritus.

 

-This is the number one thing that helped. The final pillar that killed it for good. Add a refugium. All of the above helped, but even together they were not enough. You need something else to remove any nutrients that do wind up in the water column before the cyano get get them. A macro filled fuge will do this. The fuge killed it in 1-2 weeks and it never came back.

 

 

 

Ironically all of the things people usually recommend for treating cyano or algae had zero effect (change your bulbs, reduce your lighting cycle, get a CUC, run GFO, get a better skimmer, siphon/scrub, use better water/salt, do a lights out, increase flow, etc.). And yet I've never seen anyone recommend stopping supplements or adding a fuge. Both of which helped tremendously. I just wish it hadn't taken me so long to figure it out.

[klick81]

NaturalViolence, can you recommend a skimmer that is well suited for the Biocube 14? I have the Biocube skimmer, but it doesn't seem to do a good job AT ALL.

[NaturalViolence]

Sorry but I can't help you there. I've never had a biocube and don't know what skimmers fit it. I do know that the stock skimmer is crap according to everybody who has used it.