jgaepi Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I am at Day 19 of my tank up and running. Everything seems fine to me. But I am still at Ammonia 0 and Nitrate 0. I do not have a Nitrite kit. I have a 14g BioCube with 10g effective water. 12 pounds live rock and 12 pounds live sand. My LFS sold me on miracle mud and told me to put a hefty amount it - 6 pounds (about three times the suggested amount on the bag). LFS told me that my tank will have consistent parameters for at least a year by adding that much MM. So total in 14g Biocube is 12p LR, 12p LS, and 6p MM. 10g water. After the first 7 days, I went back to get my water tested. Essentially 0 parameters. No algae. LFS told me I need some livestock to kickstart and sold me 2 dwarf hermit crabs. I went back 7 days later and essentially the same 0 parameters. This time he suggested I add three starter corals. Still no algae. Last night, I did my own water test and I still have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrate. Still no algae. Could it be the MM? Either my tank cycled super fast? Or MM has delayed my cycle? Other than adding fish, I can't imagine I have missed something in starting my cycle. My zoa, frogspawn and mushroom all seem pretty content. Hermit crabs are still alive. Thanks. Link to comment
seabass Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Last night, I did my own water test and I still have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrate. Still no algae. Could it be the MM? Either my tank cycled super fast? Or MM has delayed my cycle? I wouldn't give Miracle Mud the credit. Your live rock was probably just fully cured. Some people use "cycle" the same as an ammonia spike. However, your tank can have an established nitrogen cycle without ever experiencing an ammonia spike (just by importing a working biological filter). Link to comment
jgaepi Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 I wouldn't give Miracle Mud the credit. Your live rock was probably just fully cured. Some people use "cycle" the same as an ammonia spike. However, your tank can have an established nitrogen cycle without ever experiencing an ammonia spike (just by importing a working biological filter). Seabass, so you are implying that my "cycle" may be done? I have a few more corals going in next week. Then I am going to wait at least 10 days and finally put my fish in. I am worried I am going to get an ammonia explosion. But I guess only time will tell. Link to comment
seabass Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm implying that the cycle is established for the existing bio-load. Increasing the bio-load too much, too quickly, can still cause an ammonia spike. Add your livestock slowly (in stages). For example, add a fish, wait a week and monitor ammonia; if ammonia is still undetectable, you could add another fish. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 agreed all to add to the miracle mud this is my challenge: find the number of tanks of the month or any professional tank using it on any common forum, just as an indication of what the reef masses do there are some but how many currents? doesnt mean they are always right, but trends come and go for a reason mm was 2002 specifically. refugiums are next out but give it two more lol mm/refugiums not bad or harmful in any way neither is keeping corals in a glass jar or 10K$ reef tank the only thing that matters is do you conserve and produce coral mass vs consume it and take from nature. any way you accomplish positive biomass counts. including mm setups it will not make a difference on any key param, or, the mass of todays best tanks would be using it so that starts my detraction. im not anti lfs, im pro critique and mm or no mm you must support your params. for sure in a nano what gets the current best accepted method isnt a mud sink which means it collects fecal waste and stores it up, forever. todays science says to export, export, export and feed, feed feed. typically people attack phosphates in some way, and mm is a phosphate producing sink, so there are good counter points to using it. anyone can setup a fine, successful, positive biomass producing tank off mm or 27 refugiums tied in line, or neither. so in the end its opinion and outcomes only that can be measured, but to say mm makes you not have to stabilize params isn't right. it can cause algae problems in your tank most certain, any area in which we collect and store fecal matter will, in time. all things to consider. another option is make a poll here before you buy anything. if you make a poll "would anyone use mm" you will have 7 out of 1000 that say yes my types are only for critical thinking exercise not to discourage mm. if someone tasked me with making a mm coral system, id do it. and then have it replaced from time to time to make up for the sinking. given my own way, i dont see miracle mud associated with long term aquarium keeping so I only replicate what has been shown to accomplish that. never storing up fecal material. Link to comment
farkwar Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 any area in which we collect and store fecal matter will, in time. . No sh1t. Funny, you can see the progression in terms of evolution of filters. UG filter, dead coral, marine tank. Canister filter, dead coral, dead rock, marine tank. Wet dry filter, dead rock, reef tank. Wet dry filter, skimmer, dead rock, reef tank Live rock, skimmer, reef tank... "What we gonna do with this big expensive acrylic wet dry box, now?" "I know, lets put mud in it, and algae in it as a filter. Mud is natural, right, algae is natural, right." Its natural filtration, ya, thats it, thats the ticket Freakin thing is one big SH1T catcher, is what it really is. Link to comment
brandon429 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 ha rofl and thats before happy hour/. Link to comment
JMarcink91 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 When I set up my 20L I had a mini cycle and it was done within a week. I used 15-20 lb cured live rock, so that helps it cycle more quickly Link to comment
thomas8man Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I am at Day 19 of my tank up and running. Everything seems fine to me. But I am still at Ammonia 0 and Nitrate 0. I do not have a Nitrite kit. I have a 14g BioCube with 10g effective water. 12 pounds live rock and 12 pounds live sand. My LFS sold me on miracle mud and told me to put a hefty amount it - 6 pounds (about three times the suggested amount on the bag). LFS told me that my tank will have consistent parameters for at least a year by adding that much MM. So total in 14g Biocube is 12p LR, 12p LS, and 6p MM. 10g water. After the first 7 days, I went back to get my water tested. Essentially 0 parameters. No algae. LFS told me I need some livestock to kickstart and sold me 2 dwarf hermit crabs. I went back 7 days later and essentially the same 0 parameters. This time he suggested I add three starter corals. Still no algae. Last night, I did my own water test and I still have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrate. Still no algae. Could it be the MM? Either my tank cycled super fast? Or MM has delayed my cycle? Other than adding fish, I can't imagine I have missed something in starting my cycle. My zoa, frogspawn and mushroom all seem pretty content. Hermit crabs are still alive. Thanks. If your tank no ammonia to start with and there is none present means that the tank has no waste as of yet but i am afraid that maybe down the road like it happened to me that the ammonia spiked and fighting with algae. So I would wait as my sugestion until a month at least so that you know that nothing is waiting to screw you over. Link to comment
jgaepi Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I have been tempted, from what I have read online, to track down some of that Dr. Tim's Ammonium and put some in my tank just to A) see what happens and/or to kick start the cycle if it actually hasn't happened yet. But Thomas8man, I am still a "noob" but I have a lot of stuff in my tank and it has been 21 days now for any form of cycle to not have happened at all. But yes, I have had zero algae, which has me a little concerned. Link to comment
seabass Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You already have livestock in your tank. Don't add any ammonia. The nitrogen cycle is continuous and good (it's your biological filter), while an ammonia spike is bad (it happens when your biological filter is overwhelmed). Algae will happen when nutrients (phosphate and nitrate) get higher. Enjoy your algae free tank while you can. Link to comment
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