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Cultivated Reef

more big dumb light questions


Fross

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Hey guys, I am looking for a few more lighting opinions before I go ahead and pull the trigger on something.

 

Im planing on picking up a 90 gal 48Lx18Wx24H tank but the lights need to be upgraded for tank use

( I know i was asking about a different tank yesterday but things changed). The current lights are 2x54 T5 HO blue and white. What i am trying to figure out is the best way to light this thing up enough for SPS on top and softies, zoos etc lower at the cheapest possible price.

 

I know most of you guys are all about spending the money to get the top of the line thing, but fact is, the tank is already breaking the budget so I am looking for something that can get me by for a few months before I can really invest in something long term.

 

Here are two different items I am thinking about:

6x54 T5 http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-324W-T5-HO-Aquarium-Light-Hood-6x54W-Fluorescent-Actinic-Lamp-LCD-Timer-REEF-/310901236151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48632861b7

 

LED: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-X-ReefBar-COMBO-4Ft-Aquarium-LED-Light-Reef-Bar-48-inch-48-210W-Grow-Coral-/271270991347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3f2902d5f3

 

The LED is a bit over budget, but I can possibly swing it if its thought to be a good deal. I assume I will need better/differnt bulbs with the T5

 

Any help is always greatly appreciated. all my experience is with nano (14gal) tank so im a little over my head in this 90 gal upgrade.

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Between those two the T5 hands down.

 

Neither unit is particularly phenomenal but the t5 can at least have the cheap lamps replaced over time.

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NanoBiscuit

I was in your same position a few years ago when I was setting up a tank. I didn't wait to get the light that my tank really needed and rushed to buy a cheap fixture until I could "upgrade." That tank didn't last long before I got bored because all my corals were dying from lack of light. I probably spent more money replacing corals than if I would have bought the right thing the first time. You get what you pay for which is why I bought the right light for my current tank before anything else.

 

I doubt the reflectors are of high enough quality in the T5 fixture to really support any SPS but I'm not an expert with them so I don't know for sure.

 

Cut the corners and save some money elsewhere, spend more on the light now. Just my 2 cents.

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If $250 is over budget for lighting for a 90g tank, I've got some bad news for you.

So much this.

 

The light over my smallest reef (Aqueon evolve 8) was $300.

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Have you ever stopped your car behind a guy pulling a BassTracker boat? (Any boat really, besides a 12' Klamath or something.)

 

I have.

 

That guy spends a lot of money on his hobby. Reef hobby is way less expensive than that.

 

 

 

 

After clean water (RODI filter), the lighting is the most important purchase. It is how your photosynthetic corals EAT. Kinda important, wouldnt you say?

 

Honestly, none of us LIKE spending a lot of money on lights. We just know that proper lighting is needed to grow nice corals and clams. The reef animals that we keep in this hobby use equatorial sunlight to live, 3 to 15 feet under water. That is what you have to duplicate in order for these animals to survive and thrive, in this hobby.

 

There are several people here who are experts at creating proper light the least expensive way possible. So youre in the right place.

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Thanks for the input everyone its mostly what I expected. I understand that lighting is the most or 2nd most important item one can purchase for this hobby, I have a StevesLED retro fit light in my current biocube. $250 is only currently breaking the banks becuase I am spending about $600 for the tank, stand, sump, rock livestock etc. The tank is coming as a fish only setup but I have corals in my biocube that I want to move over, so I was just looking for a light to get me by for a month maybe two until the wife cools off and I can spend money again on a more long term solution

 

I know many of you are very smart when it comes to this hobby and well informed what is best for your tanks and that is why I always come here for advice. I also can not help but think that there are some people that are told that they need to go with an expensive fixture, buy it, and then regurgitate stuff that they were told without ever really knowing why that light is better than something a bit cheaper.

 

I had a feeling the LEDs would be of poor quality, but I know very little about how to gage quality of a T5, is there more to them then just the bulbs? I know people have been running fantastic tanks with them for decades so I would think someone would need the latest and greatest technology.

 

is there any fixtures that could be recommended that would be good for my situation?

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T5s have a lower cost of entry than other lights.

 

4 tubes fixtures are not double cost of 2 tube fixture, 6 are not 3x 2 tubes. They scale cheaper for the fixture. They use more electricity than LEDs, tube replacement is an expense you do every 6 months.

 

LEDs last 10 years, no bulb replacement. Use less electricity. And they scale arithmetically, 2 cost double what 1 costs.

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T5s have a lower cost of entry than other lights.

 

4 tubes fixtures are not double cost of 2 tube fixture, 6 are not 3x 2 tubes. They scale cheaper for the fixture. They use more electricity than LEDs, tube replacement is an expense you do every 6 months.

 

LEDs last 10 years, no bulb replacement. Use less electricity. And they scale arithmetically, 2 cost double what 1 costs.

Thats what I was thinking and why I am mostly leaning to T5 for the time being. Do you think 6 tubes is enough for a 90gal? 24" deep

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NanoBiscuit
Thats what I was thinking and why I am mostly leaning to T5 for the time being. Do you think 6 tubes is enough for a 90gal? 24" deep

 

I think what can separate T5 fixtures are the reflectors. I doubt a cheaper fixture will give you much light at any depth if the reflectors are no good.

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The reflector in that fixture isn't much of one. It's a single sheet if thin aluminum that's arched over the six lamps. There's not even any bends in the aluminum to simulate individual reflectors. I have a 36" version in pieces collecting dust.

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Mr. Microscope

If you're really on a budget and have a small amount of DIY skills, you can get lot of really cheap Bridgelux LEDs, but you'll probably want to swap them out with higher quality LED's later. Though, you'd be able to keep and reuse the same drivers and heats sinks if you plan it right.

 

 

With optics, you could probably wire up a small array strong enough to support SPS. Though, perhaps not across the entire 48 inches. Maybe just start out by lighting up one side of your tank with a nice rock pillar and let the other side be unlit and unscaped until you can afford to build a second array. It'd probably create a really dramatic look and add a nice sense of minimalism to the overall appearance of the tank.

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Thats what I was thinking and why I am mostly leaning to T5 for the time being. Do you think 6 tubes is enough for a 90gal? 24" deep

 

Youre looking at $200 to 300 in replacement tubes every six months. Are you sure you want to go that route?

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NanoBiscuit

You could maybe look at expandable fixtures that might allow you to pick up one unit now to light a portion of your tank like Mr. Microscope said then add more down the line.

 

I found its always easier to ask my wife for forgiveness than asking her for permission when buying tank stuff. ;-)

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NaturalViolence

Just get 2 evergrow LEDs on ebay for $180. They're almost as bright and colorful as a high end fixture for a tiny fraction of the cost. And most people that have bought them have not had any issues with them dying prematurely. Which is why so many of the reputable US LED sellers just sell rebranded evergrows with warranty. The biggest issues they have is fan noise (easily fixed by swapping out the fans) and lack of features (not programmable for example).

 

Cheap LED fixtures are way better than cheap T5HO fixtures. T5HO fixtures require very good reflectors to perform well. There is no cheap way to make these reflectors which is why all of the cheap fixtures have a single flat reflector. Cheap LED diodes on the other handle last a really long time as long as they are properly cooled and and are extremely bright/efficient, in some cases almost as good as cree. Cheap T5 bulbs on the other hand do not last long and quickly lose their color/brightness. The same goes for power supplies. Ballast elecronics use much higher voltages and are more complex. There is more room for things to go wrong with a cheap design. LED power supplies can be greatly simplified to the point where they cost next to nothing and still last a long time. LEDs provide control over color without the need to buy lots of expensive bulbs to swap out. They're several times as energy efficient. They produce shimmer. They're insanely bright (even the cheap ones will grow pretty much anything as long as the spectrum is good). The parts all last a really long time as long as they're kept cool. And in addition to the savings on your energy bill they don't require constant expensive bulb replacements.

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You could maybe look at expandable fixtures that might allow you to pick up one unit now to light a portion of your tank like Mr. Microscope said then add more down the line. I found its always easier to ask my wife for forgiveness than asking her for permission when buying tank stuff. ;-)

 

I completely agree. im starting to think I'll get one nice fixture now and a second one later and just go with coral on the one side for now.

 

one of my favorite lyrics from my favorite band "I'd rather beg for permission then solicit permission" words for a married man to live buy,

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Just get 2 evergrow LEDs on ebay for $180. They're almost as bright and colorful as a high end fixture for a tiny fraction of the cost. And most people that have bought them have not had any issues with them dying prematurely. Which is why so many of the reputable US LED sellers just sell rebranded evergrows with warranty. The biggest issues they have is fan noise (easily fixed by swapping out the fans) and lack of features (not programmable for example).

 

Cheap LED fixtures are way better than cheap T5HO fixtures. T5HO fixtures require very good reflectors to perform well. There is no cheap way to make these reflectors which is why all of the cheap fixtures have a single flat reflector. Cheap LED diodes on the other handle last a really long time as long as they are properly cooled and and are extremely bright/efficient, in some cases almost as good as cree. Cheap T5 bulbs on the other hand do not last long and quickly lose their color/brightness. The same goes for power supplies. Ballast elecronics use much higher voltages and are more complex. There is more room for things to go wrong with a cheap design. LED power supplies can be greatly simplified to the point where they cost next to nothing and still last a long time. LEDs provide control over color without the need to buy lots of expensive bulbs to swap out. They're several times as energy efficient. They produce shimmer. They're insanely bright (even the cheap ones will grow pretty much anything as long as the spectrum is good). The parts all last a really long time as long as they're kept cool. And in addition to the savings on your energy bill they don't require constant expensive bulb replacements.

 

Thanks for that info. My endgame is always to go LED, I was just thought that i could get by on the cheap with t5 for the time being, but i am starting to understand that that is not likely and seem more like a money sink.

 

I really appreciate everyones input on this topic

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