I am clueless as to why nothing in my system is growing!

[seabass]

So to recap:

• Get rid of Dinos
• Keep alkalinity (and other parameters) stable
• Raise the temperature
• Start feeding corals (and monitoring nutrient levels)
• Increase lighting

Let's see how that goes, but don't expect immediate results. If you can accomplish that, I bet your tank will look much better in 6 months.

[Amphiprion1]

Here's an experiment I conducted a last year using radions. Also, I stated LEAST growth not NO growth.

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/327800-marquiseos-i-love-anthias-and-sps-tank-new-anthias-post-120/?p=4482885

 

Hmm, I'd have to see how the measured incident intensity fares with this sort of thing. Without knowing quantitative changes in light, it is hard to determine much. Of course there may be other factors involved that are unaccounted for.

 

Again, I wouldn't question in the case of halides and even many T5s, but LED efficiency is different and most of the PAR tests confirm this. It could be a spectrum issue as far as growth is concerned, but lots of "windex" tanks seem to get good growth when using LEDs.

 

Edit:

 

In any case, I would second the suggestions already made. It may also be worthwhile to see if there is someone local that may have a PAR meter with which you could at least establish a baseline.

[ReviloM]

Hmm, I'd have to see how the measured incident intensity fares with this sort of thing. Without knowing quantitative changes in light, it is hard to determine much. Of course there may be other factors involved that are unaccounted for.

 

Again, I wouldn't question in the case of halides and even many T5s, but LED efficiency is different and most of the PAR tests confirm this. It could be a spectrum issue as far as growth is concerned, but lots of "windex" tanks seem to get good growth when using LEDs.

 

Edit:

 

In any case, I would second the suggestions already made. It may also be worthwhile to see if there is someone local that may have a PAR meter with which you could at least establish a baseline.

My parameters were stable and I dosed using BRS dosing pumps. I used biopellets and fed heavily because I had anthias. As for the light, I can't remember the exact schedule but it was on 10,000K.

 

The test can be replicated. Just simply conduct it.

 

Very interesting. This could also be why so many people give up on LED since most are so heavy in the blue spectrum. I might have to try this with my Razors at some point, maybe vacation like you, to see if I can get a jump on growth.

Yeah that was the perfect time for me to conduct it because I wouldn't be at home to messed with the tank and possibly ruin the experiment.

[seabass]

I used biopellets...

I wonder if the ULN system affected the outcome.

[ReviloM]

I wonder if the ULN system affected the outcome.

It wasn't an ULNS. I hadn't achieved that yet. I still had nitrates and phosphates but it was maintained. If I remember correctly my nitrates stayed at 10 ppm and phosphates at 0.03 ppm

[Lawnman]

Corals not growing lol I wait years for my chalices to grow a 1/4 of a inch. Then if alk swings the won't grow or die. Welcome to the wonderful world of LPS.

[Amphiprion1]

My parameters were stable and I dosed using BRS dosing pumps. I used biopellets and fed heavily because I had anthias. As for the light, I can't remember the exact schedule but it was on 10,000K.

 

The test can be replicated. Just simply conduct it.

 

Yeah that was the perfect time for me to conduct it because I wouldn't be at home to messed with the tank and possibly ruin the experiment.

 

The thing is, it can't necessarily be replicated across the board with LEDs based on the wide array of fixtures and their layouts/components. The point I was trying to make is that the recommendation made is not universal across fixtures. It's just not that simple. As an example, based on PAR readings alone, the Radion Gen 2 on 12000K mode is actually brighter than 10000K. I'm not doubting that you probably had a growth boost from extra PAR @10000K, since you likely started with little white and most blues on. It was simply additional at that point. Just that the generalized chart made earlier is not necessarily accurate regarding current LED fixtures.

 

That being said, yes, I'd pit my 250w XM 10000K halide (or Iwasaki 6500K) up against any bluer metal halide bulb, including Radiums, any day of the week in terms of intensity.

 

In any case, I never intended this to become an argument, so I'll respectfully stop here. Sorry to the OP for getting off track, as well. I just wanted to clear that misconception, as I thought it would be relevant.

[ReviloM]

I was simply stating a fact with supported data. I'm not a scientist nor is anyone here. I conducted a study based on what I had available, which the Op has, and got results. Until someone here shows me a Masters Degree in Lighting and disprove it, I am going to stand by it. Because you read one book on reef lights doesn't make you an expert.

Also, all tests are replicated as closely as possible. There are always unforeseen variables that can occur in any experiment.

[ps2cho]

What is your wc schedule?

 

I had the same issue -- no growth and dinos. I was overexporting nutrients. Remove carbon, gfo, biopellets. Stick to the basics -- live rock, skimmer and maybe filter sock...nothing else. Push back water changes to min 2 weeks and start feeding the tank some aminos such as reef fusion.

 

My dinos were gone in a month.

[evan127]

I have had corals that are taking their sweet time to recover from mistakes I made 8+ months ago. It can take a loooong time for them to get to their happy spot.

Thanks for the input! That is quite a while. This will teach me to watch my alkalinity like a hawk!

 

Your Radion Intensity is very low for a tank that size. Over my 20g, my Radion Pro peaks at 60% and that has an extra UV channel and a bit more power (thought I have 120 degree optics). I bet your PAR is incredibly low in the bottom half of your tank and off to the sides and that is contributing to your slow growth. Since you have a single light, it would probably be a good idea to throw on the wide angles to even out PAR and run your lights at double their intensity after acclimating.

 

Also, Alk swing 2 months ago is not a long recovery period. It took 4 months for any growth on my acros at all after I finished treating for AEFW. Then, one day, they exploded again with growth and haven't looked back.

 

Get your stability back and use acclimitzation mode on your Radion to slowly bring the intensity up.

Thanks for the suggestion and input! I am slowly bringing my Radion up from 40% to 60% over the next month.

 

I guess I didn't realize the incredible effects alkalinity swings caused. I am going to be watching alkalinity like crazy!

[evan127]

So to recap:

• Get rid of Dinos
• Keep alkalinity (and other parameters) stable
• Raise the temperature
• Start feeding corals (and monitoring nutrient levels)
• Increase lighting

Let's see how that goes, but don't expect immediate results. If you can accomplish that, I bet your tank will look much better in 6 months.

Thanks so much for the help seabass! I really really appreciate it!

 

I totally agree with this checklist and I think this is a good roadmap to get back on track. I have increased my flow to keep more detritus in suspension. I have turned my heaters up one degree since yesterday, bringing the system temperature up to 80F. I fed my tank twice yesterday. Mysis for the LPS and fish. Plankton for the smaller corals. I am going to get some SPS food like many have mentioned in this thread and give that a try. As I stated above, I am increasing my lighting from 40% intensity to 60% over the next 4 weeks. I altered the Kelvin too. I changed it from 18k and 14k (if I remembered correctly) to 10k and 12k, excluding the sunrise and sunset.

[jservedio]

Thanks so much for the help seabass! I really really appreciate it!

 

I totally agree with this checklist and I think this is a good roadmap to get back on track. I have increased my flow to keep more detritus in suspension. I have turned my heaters up one degree since yesterday, bringing the system temperature up to 80F. I fed my tank twice yesterday. Mysis for the LPS and fish. Plankton for the smaller corals. I am going to get some SPS food like many have mentioned in this thread and give that a try. As I stated above, I am increasing my lighting from 40% intensity to 60% over the next 4 weeks. I altered the Kelvin too. I changed it from 18k and 14k (if I remembered correctly) to 10k and 12k, excluding the sunrise and sunset.

 

I wouldn't make that change in Kelvin - with a Radion you should never go below 12K (100% on all channels) with a reef, and for good reason. Anything less than that is 1. useless since you are getting less power 2. ugly as hell and 3. potentially damaging when coupled with an intensity increase (since you are drastically increasing the red light). With a mixed reef, you are going to be better off at the original color temperature you picked - the 14K to 18K range is perfectly fine. The Radion (just like most other LEDs) looks more blue at lower intensities, don't let your eyes fool you. Also, changes in light quickly (like completely changing color temperature) is just ANOTHER source of instability - stick with your current schedule and slowly increase intensity.

 

Personally, my Radion never dips below around 14K and it is only around that level to give my acros a nice blast of white light while I am not home - otherwise it is sitting 16-18K and I have crazy growth.

[evan127]

Hey everyone! I wanted to do a 1 week update

 

So far I have made a few changes. Here is a short list of everything that has been changed so far to improve my coral health.

 

 

-Installed TIR lenses to my Radion. I can't believe the difference!

-My Radion is primarily producing 20k throughout the day with a 2 hour peak at 14k

-My alkalinity is in check. It has been stable at 8.5 dKH. I have done 3 tests since the first post and made adjustments by dosing with BRS two part.

-Added 16 tablespoons of GFO to my reactor.

-Changing out my filter socks every other day

-Started to feed corals BRS Reef Chili. I am using 2 scoops (about 1/8 tablespoon) of Reef Chili every other day. I target feed all my SPS and some LPS that are too small to take mysis or krill.

-System temperature is at 81F

-Dusting off rocks every other day

-Sand bed has been untouched to not distribute dinos further

 

That's about it so far. Any other suggestions besides sit back (beer in hand ) and watch the progress?

[sunburn]

16 tablespoons of GFO for a 49 gallon tank? Is that correct? I only used about 3-4 TBS for my 36 gallon.

[evan127]

The BRS directions state 1 tablespoon per 4 gallons. I calculate that I have about 65 gallons total with sump. Hopefully that isn't a overdose

[Builder Anthony]

Try blasting your tank with light 14 hours do a water change weekly with reef crystal salt and stop skimming and feed heavy then turn on your skimmer every now and then for like 2 days out of the week.I think most likely its your lighting schedule being to wem

[evan127]

Try blasting your tank with light 14 hours do a water change weekly with reef crystal salt and stop skimming and feed heavy then turn on your skimmer every now and then for like 2 days out of the week.I think most likely its your lighting schedule being to wem

 

My lights are already on for about 14 hours a day. They are only up to 55% intensity for about 8 hours. I use Red Sea Pro Salt. What does turning the skimmer off a majority of the time do? If I am feeding heavier I want to leave the skimmer on. What do you mean "wem"? Wimpy?

[ps2cho]

Why are you starting GFO when you have no idea what your phosphates are?

As I previously said, you may in fact be nutrient deficient and by adding GFO you will start having more issues.

Stop the GFO until you get a po4 kit.

[Builder Anthony]

Just turn your lights 100 percent for 14 hours and see what type of algae starts to establish.if its green your fine and can increase snails.

If its red go back to your old schedule right away.I know its the light though 55 percent 8 hours is just keeping corals alive and in a dormant state.

If you feed heavy and give a lot of light things just grow.its not a hard hobby I run my corals on a air pump and not honing else with no filter or sand bed.I use a kessel that was dropped in water and only has 5 less and one 10watt flouresnt.it does get natural sunlight direct for about three hours with the lights still on.my light cycle is 7am to 1am.I have no algae and moderate growth.my acans right under the light are a good spicens and grow fast compared to other a cans.

[thegambler26]

Lighting might be one of you're issues but I wouldn't recommend going from 55 to 100 for 14 hrs. Increasing feeding, turning off you're skimmer, and adding more light is just a recipe for major algae growth. Get the po4 test kit, keep all your levels in check, and time. That will be what helps you fix your problem.

[Horerczy]

Do not bump that light up to 100% from 55%.

 

Raise it slowly (no more than 5% a week) if you feel the coral isn't getting enough light.

[evan127]

Just another update

 

 

-GFO has been turned off. Phosphates were high, but nothing insane. They are coming down.

-5 gallon water changes every week

-BRS Reef Chili is being target fed to SPS every other day

-Filter socks changed every two days

-Dinos are widespread, but haven't increased

-Radion is a 20k and 14k combination at a peak intensity of 60%

[metrokat]

What does not make sense? I don't have any algae outbreaks, just a few spots of dinos here and there on my sand bed.To add as a safety blanket on top of the water changes and reduced feedings. Regarding the test kit, you can gather some of that information by reading above

Hi Evan, I see the solutions and effort you are putting in but they aren't solutions to your problems. If you don't have phosphates you don't need GFO. If you don't see algae, you don't have phosphates. Now this is a broad summary of the relationship between GFO,phosphates, algae but more importantly it points to GFO not being the solution. Kind of like getting a tetanus shot when you have a cold.Alk swings retard coral growth, how long the growth is retarded is dependent on your individual tank and the species of coral.Lastly, I see poor nutrition for corals, they need energy and food.

 

If you are dosing and using RSCP salt, you should get to stability eventually. Are you auto dosing or manual dosing? What is the daily consumption of alk and calcium in your tank? If you don't know, you can't dose accurately and these swings will not stop.

 

Another thing to remember is that corals need time to recover from stress. This includes the stress of fragging, shipping, alk swings, heat, cold, beating with a stick. A fragged coral can take up to a year to recover. I have some of these idiots in my tank. To revcover they need stability. So we are back to alk and calcium.

 

Didn't read all the responses to your thread yet but I hope that you are no longer clueless as the title states. Good luck.

[metrokat]

Oh god, 16 tablespoons of GFO?! You want to suck those corals of life like a vampire huh. Ha. Glad you stopped that.

[Lawnman]

16 tablespoons I use 4 teaspoons in my 30 gallon with 10 gallon sump.