DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 430nm is nothing like 450nm, or even 440nm.Please understand me. I mean not how light is visible for human eyes, but how this light can working with corals. My opinion is clear now? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Please understand me. I mean not how light is visible for human eyes, but how this light can working with corals. My opinion is clear now? Opinion is fine, but the fact is that the three wavelengths are not similar in their effect. Link to comment
hypostatic Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Does anyone use any UV LEDs? I'd imagine that you'd need UV to bring out the color in the shorter wavelength fluorophores of corals, since they'd exhibit a stokes shift, right? Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Does anyone use any UV LEDs? I'd imagine that you'd need UV to bring out the color in the shorter wavelength fluorophores of corals, since they'd exhibit a stokes shift, right? I do,I can't remember which ones exactly since when I got them from Rapid they didn't have them labeled 400-410 or 410-420 but violets I have definitely bring out the greens,oranges and reds without having to go full on actinic with royal and regular blues. Which I'd imagine any violet would really. Link to comment
hypostatic Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I do,I can't remember which ones exactly since when I got them from Rapid they didn't have them labeled 400-410 or 410-420 but violets I have definitely bring out the greens,oranges and reds without having to go full on actinic with royal and regular blues. Which I'd imagine any violet would really. Anything in the UVA range of 315-400nm? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Does anyone use any UV LEDs? I'd imagine that you'd need UV to bring out the color in the shorter wavelength fluorophores of corals, since they'd exhibit a stokes shift, right? UV light fluoresces particulate matter in your tank, and does little else. There are few (none that I can remember, but I'm sure there are some) pigments that would fluoresce under true UV light that would not also fluoresce under violet or blue light. I do,I can't remember which ones exactly since when I got them from Rapid they didn't have them labeled 400-410 or 410-420 but violets I have definitely bring out the greens,oranges and reds without having to go full on actinic with royal and regular blues. Which I'd imagine any violet would really. Those are not UV. Anything in the UVA range of 315-400nm? They would be frighteningly expensive for any with respectable output. What I've seen are $20-50 for just a few percent efficiency, and those are for higher end UV (~385nm). Lower is worse. Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 That I don't know,I just took at look at this article: https://reefworks.co.uk/articles/obtaining-the-best-colours-from-your-corals/ Kinda gives you some info but nothing really about 400+ like we use. I just read a post from Ben from around last year some time and he proclaims 430's are par monsters. Which is what I plan to use on my build with my 2 NanoBox clusters. Well shame on Rapid for labeling them as such. -___- . They have them as true violet UV and violet UV hahaha. I'll just stick with LGB's hyper's or meow. Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Anything in the UVA range of 315-400nm?Wavelength 315-400nm will cause strong fluorescence of small particles in water, because of this water will look very muddy. Jedimasterben - my opinion about how work different wavelength of violet LEDs is based not only on my own opinion, but on statistic of several hundreds of our customers all over the world. Please excuse me, I will not argue on this issue. If you wish, you will be able to collect the same statistics and verify this. Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Wavelength 315-400nm will cause strong fluorescence of small particles in water, because of this water will look very muddy. Jedimasterben - my opinion about how work different wavelength of violet LEDs is based not only on my own opinion, but on statistic of several hundreds of our customers all over the world. Please excuse me, I will not argue on this issue. If you wish, you will be able to collect the same statistics and verify this. I sense so much sarcasm here Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some light reading on coral coloration by Dana Riddle. (and a few others of his series)His 'Coral Coloration' series:Feature Article: Coral Coloration: Fluorescence: Part 1 ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 2: Fluorescence: Pigments 510 - 565 and Notes on Green Fluorescent Proteins ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 3: Pigments Responsible for ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 4: Red Fluorescent Pigments, a Preliminary Report of Effects of Various Environmental Factors and Color Mixing ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 5: Non-fluorescent Chromoproteins (CP-480 to CP-562) ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 6: Non-fluorescent Chromoproteins (CP-568 ? CP-610) And A Newly Discovered Colorant ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration - Part 7: Coral Reflectance, Chromoproteins and Environmental Factors Affecting Non-fluorescent Pigmentation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 8: Blue and Green Coral Fluorescence: Environmental Factors Affecting Fluorescent Pigmentation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 9: Tridacna and Other Photosynthetic Clam Coloration, With Observations on Possible Functions ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogHis 'How to Make Corals More Colorful' series:Feature Article: How to Make Corals Colorful, Part One: New Information, With Particular Attention to Blue-Green Fluorescent Pigments ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: How to Make Corals More Colorful, Part Two: New Information! Green Fluorescent Pigments, Pigment Clades, and Photoconversion from Green to Orange/Red ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: How to Make Corals More Colorful Part 3 - New Information: Red Fluorescent Pigments: DsRed-type ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogAquarium Corals: Making Corals Colorful: New Information on Acropora species ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog A few misc pieces of note:Feature Article: How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates' Light Requirements ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Spectral Data from a Shallow Hawaiian Tidepool ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Lighting by Number: "Types" of Zooxanthellae and What They Tell Us ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: An Update on Zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium spp.) What a Difference a Year Makes! ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: A Different Look at Lighting: Effects of Prolonged Photoperiod, Spectral Quality, and Light Dosage ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Getting Really Up to Date on Zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium spp.) ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Glitter Lines: More Than Aesthetic? ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Lighting the Reef Aquarium - Spectrum or Intensity? ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Too Much Light! ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Playing With Poison - Ultraviolet Radiation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some light reading on coral coloration. His 'Coral Coloration' series: Feature Article: Coral Coloration: Fluorescence: Part 1 ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and BlogFeature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 2: Fluorescence: Pigments 510 - 565 and Notes on Green Fluorescent Proteins ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 3: Pigments Responsible for ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 4: Red Fluorescent Pigments, a Preliminary Report of Effects of Various Environmental Factors and Color Mixing ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 5: Non-fluorescent Chromoproteins (CP-480 to CP-562) ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 6: Non-fluorescent Chromoproteins (CP-568 ? CP-610) And A Newly Discovered Colorant ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration - Part 7: Coral Reflectance, Chromoproteins and Environmental Factors Affecting Non-fluorescent Pigmentation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 8: Blue and Green Coral Fluorescence: Environmental Factors Affecting Fluorescent Pigmentation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Coral Coloration, Part 9: Tridacna and Other Photosynthetic Clam Coloration, With Observations on Possible Functions ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog His 'How to Make Corals More Colorful' series: Feature Article: How to Make Corals Colorful, Part One: New Information, With Particular Attention to Blue-Green Fluorescent Pigments ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: How to Make Corals More Colorful, Part Two: New Information! Green Fluorescent Pigments, Pigment Clades, and Photoconversion from Green to Orange/Red ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: How to Make Corals More Colorful Part 3 - New Information: Red Fluorescent Pigments: DsRed-type ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Aquarium Corals: Making Corals Colorful: New Information on Acropora species ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog A few misc pieces of note: Feature Article: How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates' Light Requirements ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Spectral Data from a Shallow Hawaiian Tidepool ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Lighting by Number: "Types" of Zooxanthellae and What They Tell Us ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: An Update on Zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium spp.) What a Difference a Year Makes! ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: A Different Look at Lighting: Effects of Prolonged Photoperiod, Spectral Quality, and Light Dosage ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Getting Really Up to Date on Zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium spp.) ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Glitter Lines: More Than Aesthetic? ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Lighting the Reef Aquarium - Spectrum or Intensity? ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Too Much Light! ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog Feature Article: Playing With Poison - Ultraviolet Radiation ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog ..... Those will take a year to read lmao. Damn you.. Link to comment
hypostatic Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 hmmmm OK. In the lab I work with some fluorophores that are excited by UV lasers, but I haven't read much on any coral fluorophores that are excited by UV. It seems that there isn't enough technology in place to find out this sort of information, so there seems to be a hole in the literature in regards to pigments and excitations in the UV spectrum. I wouldn't expect too much fluorescence from particles in the water unless you had an array LOADED with UVs. And most people keep crystal clear water anyways.... I'd also expect that it would be good for coral health, since chlorophyll does have a good amount of excitation in the UV range EDIT: Oh ALSO, I think I've read that many non-fluorescent pigments in coral are a response to strong lighting? If this is the case I'd expect UV to bring out these colors too. I guess as coral sunscreen. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I wouldn't expect too much fluorescence from particles in the water unless you had an array LOADED with UVs. And most people keep crystal clear water anyways.... We aren't talking just the large visible flecks (in the 20-500 micron range), of which there are still thousands upon thousands of even in tanks that have insane mechanical filtration and skimming, but even smaller, which slip straight through any filter socks. My tank has very efficient skimming and proper flow to it and through it, and even after a dose of KZ Coral Snow (which is a clay flocculent), under low violet light the tank has immense fluorescence of particulates. I'd also expect that it would be good for coral health, since chlorophyll does have a good amount of excitation in the UV range Not really. There is a sharp drop below 430nm for chlorophyll a (primary) and PCP drops very sharply below 450nm. Will it hurt to add down to ~380nm? No. Is it cost efficient for anything noticeable? Not at this time. Anything lower than that is beginning to be in the range of harmful to corals. Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some light reading on coral coloration by Dana Riddle.Sure, I had read it. Thank you for remind. Dana has done a big work, exactly. But you forget to indicate one more Feature Article. I think, it contain the basic matters to understanding principle of lighting in MA. Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I sense so much sarcasm here I'm sorry if this looks like sarcasm, really. But in fact, many hobbyists, that had another opinion, has changed it when receive enough practice with violet radiation. Anybody may read tons of articles, it is simple. But build in own mind clear understanding - is more difficult. I'm sorry again if it's again looks as sarcasm, but it is true. Many people tend to be skeptical of what goes against their opinion. This is especially characteristic of Russian-speaking peoples. I have extensive experience in such discussions on Russian forums, and I would not want to repeat this again. It's tedious. Who wants to know - that will understand. And who does not want - no one can persuade it neither by words nor by arguments. By the way, we see this right now Please pay attention to the discussion of the necessity of 380nm radiation. Link to comment
Steve973 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Your text certainly does read with a Russian accent! Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Will it hurt to add down to ~380nm? No. Is it cost efficient for anything noticeable? Not at this time. Anything lower than that is beginning to be in the range of harmful to corals.Sure, you right. Only one addition. Sunscreen proteins (i.e. shield against UV radiation) in corals is transparency. Because of this 380nm radiation can't increase coloring, at least for most species of corals. Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm sorry if this looks like sarcasm, really. But in fact, many hobbyists, that had another opinion, has changed it when receive enough practice with violet radiation. Anybody may read tons of articles, it is simple. But build in own mind clear understanding - is more difficult. I'm sorry again if it's again looks as sarcasm, but it is true. Many people tend to be skeptical of what goes against their opinion. This is especially characteristic of Russian-speaking peoples. I have extensive experience in such discussions on Russian forums, and I would not want to repeat this again. It's tedious. Who wants to know - that will understand. And who does not want - no one can persuade it neither by words nor by arguments. By the way, we see this right now Please pay attention to the discussion of the necessity of 380nm radiation. I'm just giving you a hard time man. I understand what you're saying. Also,you can read all the articles you want personally,put teaching yourself and actually putting forth the effort to do trial and error is my personal preference. Yeah a lot of people have helped me along the way of building my light I have now ( thanks Ben,Tom,Evil and Hor ) but until you actually do it yourself like wiring,arrays,heatsink heat transfer ect you really don't learn anything until it's been done,plain and simple. Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Your text certainly does read with a Russian accent! I hope, this accent will not kill meaning in it To be honest, my English is very weak, I'm sorry. Link to comment
Reefkid88 Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I hope, this accent will not kill meaning in it To be honest, my English is very weak, I'm sorry. Don't worry. Your Russian is better than 75% of the Spanish people I know lol. Another quick question while I have all you led junkies attention,I know lime should be on it's own channel,but how stupid would it be to add a single line in the middle of 4 430's and on the same channel ? I'm assuming pretty stupid lol ? Link to comment
DNK Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thank you for compliment. I know, it is undeserved, but still nice Lime is extremely bright LED, but 430nm LED has a ~40 times lower visibility of light. But, if united light of this LEDs will suit you for all levels of brightness, feel free to use it together in one channel. I think, visual appearance of this united lights in this case will be near the same as from Lime only Link to comment
hypostatic Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So let me elaborate on what I meant with this (more precise) image Looking at chlorophyll a, at the 400nm mark the molecule still exhibits 60% activity. In fact, chlorophyll b also starts to get a small peak in activity around that mark. There is still a lot of area under that curve. There's still stuff going on below 400nm. I haven't found much information on what goes on much below that mark -- perhaps because there isn't the technology in place to accurately measure this with the proper wavelengths. With regards to health benefits, not only do you get a small boost in energy production (photosynthesis) with a little added UV, but UV (in animals like humans at least) is essential to the production of vitamin D. I wouldn't expect a little bit of UV in the UVA range to be harmful to corals. Especially in the case of shallow species, they get bombarded with UV rays, I think down to UVB. Link to comment
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