Biopellets and Hair Algae

[Riddler05]

Hey Nano-Reefs,

 

Short Version: I have been fighting a loosing battle to hair algae, and after trying many things I have decided to try the new All-In-One Biopellets. I started running the biopellets a little over a week ago. Already my water looks clearer but it has not had any affect on my hair algae. My question is how long should I wait before adding some more biopellets to my reactor. I did not want to shock the system so I put in the minimum that the manufacture recommends.

 

 

Long Version: About 4-5 months ago I had to travel to Singapore for one month for work and during this time I had a friend watch my tank. During this time I had a crazy hair algae. I have tried reducing feeding, large water changes, 3-day blackouts, manual removal, purigen, liquid carbon dosing. But nothing seemed to help. I know that running biopellets can be risky but after trying everything else I decided to try the new All-In-One biopellets. The manufacturer recommends using 50-250ml for ~26G. My total water volume, with my sump included, is ~40G (15G sump + 25G display). I was worried about crashing my system so I started with only 50ml of biopellets. I should also mention that I have been monitoring NO3 and PO4 for the last 4 months and the whole time both NO3 and PO4 have been undetectable which I assume does not mean much since the hair algae is probably consuming all the nutrients.

 

Equipment:

Hydor Slim Skim Protein Skimmer

CPR Nano Reactor

 

Parameters: (I am following the Red Sea program so the numbers are a little higher then what most people would consider normal):

pH: ~7.98

dKh: ~11.8-12.2

Ca: ~450ppm

Mg: ~1325-1375ppm

Temp: 78.5F

 

Feeding: 2 times a day for a total of about 1 cube of food a day. I know that this is a little high but feeding is my favorite part of the hobby.

 

Bioload (Heavy): I have 4 fish in my 25G display (2 Ocellaris, 1 Banggai Cardinalfish, and 1 Watchman Goby), and 2 fish in my 12G sump (1 Firefish and 1 pink-streaked wrasse).

 

Maintenance: I do a 5 gallon water change every week and I scrub the glass every couple of days. I also change my filter socks once a week.

[metrokat]

Mexican Turbo snails.

[cet98]

my experience with NPX BioPlastics (TLF version of BioPellets) has been extremely positive...

 

read about it here

[Riddler05]

Mexican Turbo snails.

metrokat, I tried Mexican turbo snails (~5 in my 25G display tank and ~2 in my 15G sump). I also have about 10 hermit crabs (mostly in the sump because they were bad citizens), 2 emerald crab, 5 limpets, 1 fuzzy chiton, plus an assortment of other snails from reefcleaners.org. I think it has helped keep my tank from being completely overrun with hair algae but they have not been reducing the algae. I thought about a Sea Hare but I did not want to risk it dying and crashing my tank.

[brandon429]

trying to kill active biomass with an indrect method is a cause of your headache

 

make the tank totally free of gha then do all thats advised regarding prevention.

 

if you were to google and read "pico reef pest algae challenge thread" how could you possibly have any algae afterwards

[Riddler05]

trying to kill active biomass with an indrect method is a cause of your headache

 

make the tank totally free of gha then do all thats advised regarding prevention.

 

if you were to google and read "pico reef pest algae challenge thread" how could you possibly have any algae afterwards

Brandon,

 

I skimmed through that thread and it looks very interesting. I will read through it in more detail tonight, but it seems that you either have to be able to pull the rocks you want to treat out of the tank or not have sensitive animals in the aquarium. Unfortunately I am unable to pull the rocks out of my aquarium, and I have shrimp, crabs, and anemones in my tank. Do you have any recommendations? Here is a pic of my tank (which I am sort of embarrassed to show). As you can see it is in need of some help.

 

http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Riddler05/media/photo3_zps7c8cd2ca.jpg.html'>

 

http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Riddler05/media/photo1_zps2fb62f7c.jpg.html'>

[brandon429]

I want that tank for sure for some reasons Ill state here

 

but lets state biases first

 

I always go this route

 

secondary nutrient control of algae is ideal because its both a preventative and a remover, if you get lucky. there are people who tune that approach well, consider their options.

 

But as for why I would use peroxide, its because I think you will stress those sensitives just as well on the backside trying to starve algae that is now seeded and basically rooting on phosphate reserves in your rocks.

 

thats considered a high bioload tank, by people who fix tanks

 

but so is mine

and there is a way to act with them thats deliberate

 

 

So, to get your tank shockingly clean in three days you need to remove the rocks or drain and treat, do it anyway. they always say they cant be moved, but the alternative is total eutrophication. we dont have to act fast, we can plan well.

 

you keep the anems wet w saltwater while working around them.

 

you have a really correctable tank

 

if we do this, please update the rc thread with this one, I like to add to it when that thread was the reference.

 

 

you have many options since your tank is small, its only a challenge when they are large.

 

start with the shrimp, what kind are they

 

a drain and treat is highly likely for you, and we can perfectly make sure every anem is just fine. we will treat one spot at a time with a drain and treat and nothing bad will occur.

 

I prefer the mitigated stresses of peroxide to those of heavy nutrient sapping in a system not used to that. I think you'll bleach everything using pellets for this reason

 

what you do is remove the biomass either with an aggressive clean up crew and then run the pellets, or take it all by hand/chem then run them

 

there is one thing we are very good at in the peroxide threads, and its not permanently fixing algae. MetroK in here has algae, bryopsis, that we barely control as some invaders are just mean heh

 

what we do well is preserve your non targets in our predictions. peroxide may not work, but we predict the safety side well

[metrokat]

Gosh. Peroxide is your friend. Just read the outline below. Of course it is up to you to try it if you feel comfortable.

 

Have plenty of saltwater on hand for a 100%. Water change if needed.

If you have a cleaner shrimp, he needs to be re homed or put in a separate tank/ bucket.

Drain the tank till some of the rock is out of the water.

Save the water that you drain, do not throw it away.

Dribble straight peroxide with a pipette on the affected rocks. Do not pour. Dribble. 3 minutes after your last dribble, fill the tank back up.

 

Suggest you peroxide treat only partially at a time to avoid a tank crash due to die off.

It takes 3 days to see it die. Then you can repeat with more of the tank water drained and working on different areas.

 

There is another alternative. I have been using a goo rather than liquid peroxide. The formula is 1 tsp baking soda, 1 capful peroxide. Using this ratio you can make small batches. With a pipette suction up this gooey thing and put it slowly and precisely on the problem areas. Again do only partial treatment at a time.

 

Suction back up the goo after 3-5 minutes. It is okay that some of it did not get suctioned back up.

Same thing, 3 days later it is gone. Wait a few days and then do another section.

 

Monitor levels. Ammonia especially because of the die off.

Change water if levels are off.

 

I have been experimenting using an inert binder for this goo to enable a blob of it to be mashed on to problems. I tried xanthan gum, but it made the goo very slimy and it floated to the top.

[brandon429]

yes I cant deny the goo option Im loving that binder thread

 

I think we should go more individual treatments vs large heavy ones due to the anems and whatever shrimp is at hand

you will do more than one drain and treat, or rock removal run, to break up the peroxide used over time.

 

one patch dead of algae at a time, slowly.

 

almost nothing is as important as correcting the tank, or it will house nothing so here we go. either way, your follow up pics will be shocking and you'll like them.

 

Read up on any application method you choose, consult that application provider don't mix opinions on this stuff, do it someones way exclusively to be safe. if you do a binder method, then consult that thead and run it that specific way. dont extrapolate info between liquid application of peroxide and bound application between threads, if they show anemone safety in that thread then run that method exactly as they do in your anemone tank, id have to go reread to see how much shrimp and anemone work they did with binders

 

 

 

 

I personally would never run pellets on this tank at all, we can fix it this way and then you choose between lessening your fish bioload, better export, or repeating this as needed as the outcome. this way is safer for your tank in terms of giving you a finite time you will be done battling algae. for me, it would be about 5-8 days.

B

[brandon429]

There is a really unique way I see eutrophicated tanks when we talk about sensitives, consider it this way.

 

what if they are keeping you from being able to reef?

 

we put too much stock in sensitive organisms that are sometimes meant for us to house at a later date when we can force a reef to do our bidding. heavy fish bioloading is your main issue here.

 

some may say its not heavy fish loading, they dont fix tanks like we do their analysis works because they can run their own tank with it. you dont have grazer fish bioloading, just contributing fish bioloading.

.

Im not saying get rid of anems or shrimp, Im saying that one post in the future when one or more of them does die, but the tank is fixed so that future sensitives wont live among algae -or- peroxide, I wont feel too bad. they bought a porche before they were ready, shoulda been a nissan

 

 

I think we can save every anem for sure, shrimp is a maybe depending on species.

[Riddler05]

I want that tank for sure for some reasons Ill state here

 

but lets state biases first

 

I always go this route

 

secondary nutrient control of algae is ideal because its both a preventative and a remover, if you get lucky. there are people who tune that approach well, consider their options.

 

But as for why I would use peroxide, its because I think you will stress those sensitives just as well on the backside trying to starve algae that is now seeded and basically rooting on phosphate reserves in your rocks.

 

thats considered a high bioload tank, by people who fix tanks

 

but so is mine

and there is a way to act with them thats deliberate

 

 

So, to get your tank shockingly clean in three days you need to remove the rocks or drain and treat, do it anyway. they always say they cant be moved, but the alternative is total eutrophication. we dont have to act fast, we can plan well.

 

you keep the anems wet w saltwater while working around them.

 

you have a really correctable tank

 

if we do this, please update the rc thread with this one, I like to add to it when that thread was the reference.

 

 

you have many options since your tank is small, its only a challenge when they are large.

 

start with the shrimp, what kind are they

 

a drain and treat is highly likely for you, and we can perfectly make sure every anem is just fine. we will treat one spot at a time with a drain and treat and nothing bad will occur.

 

I prefer the mitigated stresses of peroxide to those of heavy nutrient sapping in a system not used to that. I think you'll bleach everything using pellets for this reason

 

what you do is remove the biomass either with an aggressive clean up crew and then run the pellets, or take it all by hand/chem then run them

 

there is one thing we are very good at in the peroxide threads, and its not permanently fixing algae. MetroK in here has algae, bryopsis, that we barely control as some invaders are just mean heh

 

what we do well is preserve your non targets in our predictions. peroxide may not work, but we predict the safety side well

 

 

Gosh. Peroxide is your friend. Just read the outline below. Of course it is up to you to try it if you feel comfortable.

 

Have plenty of saltwater on hand for a 100%. Water change if needed.

If you have a cleaner shrimp, he needs to be re homed or put in a separate tank/ bucket.

Drain the tank till some of the rock is out of the water.

Save the water that you drain, do not throw it away.

Dribble straight peroxide with a pipette on the affected rocks. Do not pour. Dribble. 3 minutes after your last dribble, fill the tank back up.

 

Suggest you peroxide treat only partially at a time to avoid a tank crash due to die off.

It takes 3 days to see it die. Then you can repeat with more of the tank water drained and working on different areas.

 

There is another alternative. I have been using a goo rather than liquid peroxide. The formula is 1 tsp baking soda, 1 capful peroxide. Using this ratio you can make small batches. With a pipette suction up this gooey thing and put it slowly and precisely on the problem areas. Again do only partial treatment at a time.

 

Suction back up the goo after 3-5 minutes. It is okay that some of it did not get suctioned back up.

Same thing, 3 days later it is gone. Wait a few days and then do another section.

 

Monitor levels. Ammonia especially because of the die off.

Change water if levels are off.

 

I have been experimenting using an inert binder for this goo to enable a blob of it to be mashed on to problems. I tried xanthan gum, but it made the goo very slimy and it floated to the top.

Thanks Brandon and Metrokat. So I know this is a dumb question but I really dont want to risk loosing any of my corals. I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly.

 

1. Drain tank 50-90% to expose the rock I am interested in working (small pieces at a time). Save the old water

 

2. Add peroxide or peroxide past and let sit for 3-5 min. Do I have to worry about harming my SPS and LPS corals if I expose them to air for the 5-10 min it will take to do this?

 

3. Fill the tank back up with the same water that I removed. Do I need to try and remove excess peroxide before filling up the tank?

 

4. Test water for ammonium spike. Do a large water change if ammonium is detected.

 

I have a blood red fire shrimp and a peppermint shrimp. You said that this is considered a heavy bioload, do you think it is overstocked. Should I relocate a fish or two. I would rather not but I can if you think it will be better for the fish.

 

I also have a pistol shrimp which will probably be rather hard to capture and relocate.

[metrokat]

The steps are correct. Corals can handle exposure to air for a lot longer than that. Mine including a couple of clams were waterless for over 2 hours when I moved my tank a couple of times.

[brandon429]

my take on those details is this:

nice job on details, we need to get something set before we act and we're on that track now, nice brainstorming. waiting another week to do anything is like last week for this tank, not much will change...so no rush. but peroxide is fast so when we do apply the first test run, you will like the results.

cant comment about binder setups, only because am used to using the liquid. those binder setups are great and prob just the same if you want to research them in the disease and pest forum, its up top right now.

.

those two shrimps have a fair chance of dying with peroxide exposure, consider that as you will. by treating one patch at a time as a drain and treat, with about 1-2 mils of peroxide liquid placed on the algae and allowed to wick into place, I think they might live

I have references in that big rc thread of lysmata shrimp surviving more ml/gallon of peroxide is what this is based on

I leave my sps and lps in the air for 10-20 mins on a monthly basis and the longest was about half an hour, the whole tank, sat empty.

you dont need to push your stuff past 3 mins for this deal. drain and treat for 1-2 to 3 mins maximum, even the one minute treatment w kill that algae. then refill the tank, let that tiny bit of liquid go into solution, that patch will start dying and falling off in a week. if your nearest anemone gets stressed, I dont think it will die and thats the cost of hesitation in algae battling. we are reversing that, its painful at times

make sure no api readings are included with your ammonia measurements

 

I believe pistol shrimp w be ok as is, I think your only risk on using 3-6 drops on tufts once a week is it not working and the algae stays, and maybe a single shrimp loss worst case scenario.

 

95% chance says your algae dies slow over the course of a month as we work slowly around sensitives. but the readers will see the predicted course off one treatment, that kind of algae is the most susceptible of all to peroxide.

[Riddler05]

those two shrimps have a fair chance of dying with peroxide exposure, consider that as you will. by treating one patch at a time as a drain and treat, with about 1-2 mils of peroxide liquid placed on the algae and allowed to wick into place, I think they might live

 

How often would you repeat this treatment? Should I treat 1 area in the morning and a different area in the afternoon? Or just once a day?

[brandon429]

I would literally do this if your tank was mine

 

 

Focus on one patch one treatment

 

Easy patch, up top, so you don't drain much. Any corals you do put in air can be squirted with a kids squirt gun cleaned and filled w sw, be creative. I don't bother, but you can.

 

6 drops of 3% new bottle peroxide from a pharmacy or grocery store. Not a half used bottle, new for this run. Place six drops on the patch of algae exposed to air

 

Be creative to keep drops drips and wicking off nearby anems

 

Let sit two mins as a set point midpoint

 

Refill tank and post update pics in four days zoomed in on that patch

 

 

You can try three drops if you want, these turf wick a small amount of peroxide via capillary action efficiently

 

I bet your shrimps survive, but if not, factor that before you treat.

 

 

 

 

Start doing large water changes as your action, until we get control of eutrophication as insurance water changes, not large technique changes.

 

Bio pellets represent a 180 for your tank done as a reaction to an undesired event, its the wrong approach for removal. Using less than the recommended amount as a test, when your tank has been running ideal for three months but you are having to change water a lot, is a great time to try pellets and or any other method

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can run your tank with the current fish loading.

 

The only ethical concern is whether or not they are fed and in disease free conditions, supporting a high bioload tank is fun stuff you just have to have a plan for algae.

[Riddler05]

Great. Thanks for all of your help. I will take a brand new before picture of the area of interest tonight, treat, and then get back with you in a couple of days and we can talk about the next step. Thanks Brandon and MetroKat for all of the help!

[brandon429]

thanks for considering the method its just one among many to use.

thanks for contributing.

 

I linked you to some heavy view threads mainly just to see how well predictions pan out, and, we are contrasting this technique of curing your algae to the timeframes and outcomes found in you hooking up one of the many algae based systems to try and starve that algae out. compare and contrast.

pm me if I mis the update notice

B

[Tamberav]

Have you tried a tuxedo urchin? They are algae bulldozers.

[DC5]

Have you tried a tuxedo urchin? They are algae bulldozers.

 

Mine seems to prefer bulldozing everything around my tank too

[Riddler05]

Focus on one patch one treatment

 

Brandon, I treated a small patch of algae on the top of one of my rocks. The peroxide worked within 24hrs and everything else in my tank still looks pretty good. Here are some pictures.

 

http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Riddler05/media/Untitled-2_zpsa4d227c3.png.html'>

[Tamberav]

Make sure to have a plan to keep the algae gone or it will just come right back. I would probably ditch a few fish. You aren't enjoying the ones fully in your sump anyways, just letting them poo for you.

[brandon429]

nice call on choice bioloading

 

 

in the end it's how much you store from them, so plan on increasing real export either way

 

first step in eutrophication reversal is celebrate our first prediction

 

now isnt the time to do algae prevention, be considering it, but it has basically no bearing here because tanks of all kinds of surety came to our challenge thread for help. Let fifty people sell you on ways to prevent algae, you and me are just going to make your reef like new then you take that journey

 

next steps are couple more patches, retreat this last one to wipe it good, I think we need a week of couple patches ever so slowly until dang clean. we found safe tolerable doses for your shrimp, push slowly.

 

be envisioning your tank finally all clear of algae and how you want to prevent

hit these top easy patches first, you can tell once a day is ok at six drops a patch

be doing good post water changes mid week using new water not tank water, let's do real export as we can. prevents peroxide buildup from daily work.

 

slow down if some anems stress but I don't think they will, that's tiny bit of peroxide per volume

but, prevention is not more important than removal or all these different tanks wouldn't have needed help.

 

removal of algae is drastically more important than prevention, to the point I personally focus zero on prevention. I remove algae less than I ever did, while preventing algae less than I ever did, simply because 7 years ago I refused to lose my last tank to algae, again, and I didn't know the power of simple man grazing/ removal.

 

 

overdoing algae removal means you have a great tank

 

overdoing prevention means you lose corals by bleaching and stress, focus a little on prevention and a ton on removal that's the long term advice for sure

 

I promise we just saved your corals. adding biopellets at the rate needed to burn off that much mass would have zapped em and taken 4 weeks to tell it.

 

prevention really has its place when we aren't overdriving it as the remover for sure for sure

[Riddler05]

Ok, so I guess I might as well give updates on this thread about my progress in my battle with green hair algae. I have decide to treat small patches of my GHA with peroxide and continue these small treatments until the GHA is gone. So today I apply my second spot treatment with peroxide. Thanks again everyone for all the advice. Hopefully I will be able to kick this GHA.

[brandon429]

Thank you riddler for such good feedback on the method

 

If you will update us w pics in a week that would be great ill link it thanks!,

[DC5]

Mine seems to prefer bulldozing everything around my tank too

 

Good news...my urchin decided to use my biggest hermit as cover, and the hermit ate him.