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The Goby and Gorgonian Grotto ... Algae, algae everywhere!


Lynaea

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FTS 7/22/14

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FTS 07/05/14

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Original post starts here:

 

Hi all,

 

I've just started my first saltwater aquarium after at least a decade of keeping freshwater planted tanks and a brief foray into brackish. I've done a lot of reading and searching but I'm finding that there are some things that depend on the specific set-up so I figured I'd start a tank thread and hope for some helpful advice/insights from more experienced reef keepers.

 

So, my set-up so far:

30 gallon long, 36" x 12" x 16"

40 pounds of Bimini pink live sand with some small shells thrown in for added interest

About 27.5 pounds of live rock from my LFS

Current USA orbit marine LED 24-36" lighting

Neo-therm heater

AC 110 modded to a refugium in the works

Can add a power head or Koralia if more flow is needed

 

I have ordered some Miracle mud for the refugium and the refugium pack with live sand and macros from GulfCoast Ecosystems, both will be here this week.

 

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The tank is in the pass-through from my kitchen so its viewable from three sides, I'll get more picks after I've got the AC 110 set-up and filled it completely.

 

I added live rock and sand Saturday (6/7) and I think I've settled on the final scape. I may get another rock to make the small island a little bigger and may add more small barnacle shells if I can find them (is that what those are?)

 

Proposed stocking (at present :) ):

 

3 peppermint shrimp

Some sexy shrimp??

Dwarf Cerith snails

Small nerite snails

1-2 dwarf hermit crabs??

 

Bicolor blenny

Firefish (will 2 work?)

Yellow headed jawfish

Red scooter blenny (eventually)

I also like the yellow/orange striped cardinal fish, chalk bass and citron goby

 

Zoanthids

Paly's

Macro algae (getting a selection soon, will add others from there)

Gorgonian or two

Mushrooms (maybe)

Maybe some easy, small LPS much later

 

Okay, so my current questions are mostly about compatibility and stocking order, and not just of the fish. The start up info I've found gets pretty vague after the CUC is added.

 

So I guess first of all, is what I've chosen essentially compatible and likely to co-exist fairly well, will anything eat, kill or overgrow something else? (Fish, corals and macros)

 

Which (and how many) of the fish I'm interested in will do best together in this size system?

 

What order should I add things? Some macros will be here this week and I know I add the CUC after diatoms and nuisance algae appear but after that do I need to add most of the corals I want before adding fish? Should I let the macros get established first or is it best to add some of each (fish, corals, macros) a bit at a time?

 

I know I've got some time still to think about these things and figure out what exactly I want in the tank as it needs time to cycle and stabilize, I'll update as things evolve.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

  • Like 3
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darkdancer333

On your fish selection I would caution about scooter blenny's. They are like the mandarin goby and rely on live copepods to survive. 29 gal may support the fish but I've been told a much larger tank is better to sustain the copepods. I had a scooter blenny in my 14 gal and he ate copepods but when the supply ran dry he died. I saw him eat cyclops, mysis, and pellets but in the end I am not sure what killed him. He was thin from day one. There is decent articles here on blennys and mandarins that you should read. I wish I read some of the articles on these fish. Would have saved on headaches and spared the fish. I drover 1 hour on saturday to pick up live pods but to no avail ...

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Thanks for your reply.

 

 

Yeah I've been reading a lot about them, seeing a regular scooter blenny in an LFS is part of the reason I got interested in saltwater to begin with but now that I start researching......

 

 

LiveAquaria reads like the red scooter is a little easier to ween onto frozen/prepared foods but either way I planned to wait about a year before attempting it. Mostly though I just like the way they hop/scoot along the bottom of the tank. Are there any other fish that behave similarly but aren't so difficult to keep?

 

 

Besides the scooter are my choices compatible? I'm having trouble finding comprehensive info on reef fish, is there a database? I've been trying to find more info about zoa's too, the consensus seems to be that they are easy but toxic, but I haven't found anything specific about how they are toxic or what signs/symptoms I should watch for...... I see lots of people keep them though so they must not be too bad ????

 

 

I'm still setting up so I still have time to research and I'm getting very excited as a bunch of stuff will be delivered tomorrow. I also just read a few articles on aquascaping so I'm gonna try to tweak the rock formations a bit too.

 

 

Thanks again

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vegasgundog

Wait on peppermint shrimp until you have confirmed aptasia problem, even then id use AptasiaX. Peppers are murderers of feather dusters, I learned the hard way. Zoa toxin is probably over played, but it is there. Mostly more of a problem when it comes to fragging. Just be aware of it and take precautions, wash hands after handling and don't handle if you have any open wounds. Zoas are a staple in most of our tanks. Have fun with your new addiction and go SLOW. Yes, I said addiction.

 

Skunk cleaner shrimp are awesome beautiful additions. They are very entertaining and help clean up. they do aggravate me when I'm trying to feed coral s

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darkdancer333

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

Yeah I've been reading a lot about them, seeing a regular scooter blenny in an LFS is part of the reason I got interested in saltwater to begin with but now that I start researching......

 

 

LiveAquaria reads like the red scooter is a little easier to ween onto frozen/prepared foods but either way I planned to wait about a year before attempting it. Mostly though I just like the way they hop/scoot along the bottom of the tank. Are there any other fish that behave similarly but aren't so difficult to keep?

 

 

Besides the scooter are my choices compatible? I'm having trouble finding comprehensive info on reef fish, is there a database? I've been trying to find more info about zoa's too, the consensus seems to be that they are easy but toxic, but I haven't found anything specific about how they are toxic or what signs/symptoms I should watch for...... I see lots of people keep them though so they must not be too bad ????

 

 

I'm still setting up so I still have time to research and I'm getting very excited as a bunch of stuff will be delivered tomorrow. I also just read a few articles on aquascaping so I'm gonna try to tweak the rock formations a bit too.

 

 

Thanks again

They have a fish forum here also but if you are interested in a certain fish type the name in search on nano reef and you will find several articles. I have 2 clowns and 1 firefish. I want to get a bottom feeder so i'll prolly just get a regualr goby..

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I came home to a bunch of boxes today!!! Most of it was supplies from Amazon but I also got my refugium kit from Gulf Coast Ecosystems. Pics below are of what I received, everything was packaged well. The sand and rubble was full of snails and covered in red corraline algae. The bag of 'green' is stuffed full of chaeto, I also received a large red macro and at least three different varieties of caulerpa. A lot of the caulerpa was in pieces but this pack is intended for a refugium, I did get 4-5 pieces that were 'together' enough to put in my tank.

 

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I also redid the scape and with the added colors of the macros I'm very happy with it. I'll have to wait for the water to clear to get more pics.

 

Also I have a small starfish (?) that showed up on the glass this morning. It's maybe dime sized, beige and has seven stubby legs. I also think some of my rocks are getting diatoms already, so far so good!

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I got some pics of the re-scape with the macro's. I got lots of snails, both size ceriths and virgin nerites I think. I am really liking the rubbly sand, it looks very natural.

 

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I'm definitely getting diatoms and some beige spiderweb stuff, is that hair algae?

 

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I also found a tiny soft coral in the rubble, its hard to get a pic, it's barely pea sized but it looks like a ricordea!

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My nitrites are low and dropping and my nitrates are holding steady (low too), can I add some shrimp or additional CUC now or wait till I'm fully cycled?

 

Thanks!

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Update:

 

While one caulerpa might not make it, the others I put in a few days ago are all sprouting new growth, yay! I also noticed yesterday that my water looked more cloudy even though I hadn't messed with anything. Upon close inspection I can see tiny white creatures in the water and occasionally running around on the glass - I think I'm having a pod bloom too!

 

This is a pic of my AC 110 modded refugium, I have about 1.5 inches of Miracle mud with a thin covering of sand. I have since removed the foam filter, it was right after that that I started seeing the pods so I plan to leave it out for now there's CPE in the first section. I got a dolphin LED light for it, I didn't cut a hole in the lid but it seems bright enough anyway.

 

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Another update, I have a ton of copopods and Isopods running around on my glass, pretty neat. I also have a few amphipods hanging out in the rock, a little more bug looking but also cool.

 

Unfortunately I also have this brown hair algae type stuff growing all over, I manually removed some but it's not receding yet. I have been 'feeding' the tank flake food every other day or so to get a good cycle but I think I'm gonna stop for a bit and see if that helps.

 

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Also just noticed there's an amphipod out on the rock just below the red macro.

 

I'm thinking I should just wait out this diatom/algae stage before adding more life???

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Update: I've just been waiting out this hair algae ;) I did add a few nassarius snails and 3 dwarf blue leg hermits and I've been manually removing the bigger strands.

 

I'm also waiting for Petco's 1$ per gallon sale that starts next weekend so I can get two 5.5 gallons for QT and water changes.

 

In the meantime I've been reconsidering my stocking choices, the more I look at the tank the more I think several 3-4" fish will completely overwhelm it. So, I've been researching 1-2 inch reef safe fish, so far I'm thinking:

 

Pair of Rusty gobies

Pair of yellow clown gobies

Dusky yellow streak blenny

Priolepis nocturna

Tangaroa shrimp goby

Yasha shrimp goby

Coral croucher

3-4 masked gobies - Coryphopterus personatus

Still want a red scooter eventually

 

I'm also considering going with periclimenes yucatan (an anemone cleaner shrimp) instead of sexy's, I really like the peppermints so I may still get 1-2 of those too.

 

I've also been noticing that Acans seem to be smallish and very colorful so I might end up with an Acan area as well.

 

This seems like a lot when I put it all together but all of these fish are under 2" max, I probably won't end up stocking all of them anyway. I have tried to find fish that inhabit different regions too.

 

Anyone have any experience with any of these fish/inverts? Besides the YCG's and Acans they are somewhat rare and I can only find minimal info on them.

 

Thanks for reading!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update time!

 

The hair algae seems to have stopped spreading and I've been manually removing what I can reach but now I've got cyano on the back glass. My parameters have all been good so I've decided to just get some more stuff in there. I got a few zoa's last week and they have been doing well, opening full daily. I also found a pale orange to yellow ricordia and that seems happy too, the free baby is still hanging in there too.

 

So I decided to do a big order from KP Aquatics. I'm getting 3 masked gobies, 3 yucatan anemone shrimp, a red rock flower, some sort of fancy 'bubble-tip' mushroom, 2 gorgs and a red tree sponge. Oh and some Astraea snails (I think those are the ones???). Everything is coming tomorrow, I'm excited! I really wanted some rusty gobies but they're out so I guess I'll have to do another order later ;)

 

I really think all the small freebie ceriths and nerites aren't able to keep up with what's growing so hopefully the bigger snails and (maybe? the shrimp) will help out.

 

I've noticed others don't usually post pics with their algaed up tanks and it has made it frustrating for me to know what is normal so I will post some pics once everything's in, algae and all :)

 

Oh, I forgot, the 5.5's aren't on the $ per gallon so I just got one. After some research I'm planning to make my own water changer, similar to the Reef-float. I'll post a DIY once I get all the parts.

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Another quick update .....

 

I spent most of the day kind of bummed because KP said they were out of the rusty gobies I really wanted. Just got an email that they had one left so they sent it to me. Yay, can't wait for my stuff to arrive, I've got fresh saltwater mixing and heating so I can acclimate everything Woohoo!!!

 

I'm sure I'll still end up stalking their website for gorgs, I think I'm in love with those things!!!

 

Yeah, I'm silly ;)

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How's the algae doing? It is normal in the early stages but yours looks a little out of hand to the normal. Do you use RODI or distilled water?

 

Green banded goby is another fish you should check out. Great fish with big personalities.

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The brown hair stuff has stopped growing I think, I've manually removed what I can reach. I used tap water at initial set up, do you think a 30-50% change with DI/RO would make a big difference? I want to keep lots of gorgs and macro so I kind of want high nutrient levels but this is getting annoying.

 

However, even with adding the new fish, etc and feeding regularly last few days my params have stayed 0-0-20ish. The phosphates from the tap are less than 0.25 (the lowest on the scale). I kind of think I added too many new nutrients at the same time as the CUC. all the macros sprouted new growth but the original parts died off over a week or so. There was also a lot of stuff in the live sand they sent too so the little snails couldn't keep up with the growth rate. The 4 astreas I put in Tuesday are already making a dent in the stuff on the glass (cyano mostly, I think) and have made white areas on the rocks. I actually think maybe the gorgs are helping too and the macros have really taken off this week, the stuff on the glass seems to have stopped spreading/re-growing too. I might be getting closer to a nutrient balance anyway.

 

I will do pics soon, was busy at work but I have three days to play now, yay!

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Okay, picture time!

 

FTS 07/05/14

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One of my spotted shrimp in a gorg, masked goby too

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Another spotted shrimp in my new orange Rock Flower

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Cool black sponge with white tips

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Updated stocking list:

 

Caulerpa, 3 kinds

Halimeda, 3 kinds

Purple/red macro

 

Red tree sponge

Orange tree sponge

Men-in-Black sponge

 

Rusty orange gorg x2

Purple feather gorg

Grube's gorg

 

Zoanthids, several - don't know names

Orange Rock Flower

Fancy orange Rock flower

Green/brown Rock Flower

Spikey bubble mushroom

Ricordea: orange, yellow & bluish baby

Green clove polyps

Feather dusters: many small, one large

 

Virgin nerite snails

Cerith snails - small & large

Nassarius snails

Astrea snails

Blue leg dwarf hermits x3

Tiny brittle star HH

 

Masked gobies x3

Rusty goby

Tangaroa goby

Spotted anemone shrimp x3

Pederson's shrimp

 

I went to Poseidon Aquarium in Daytona yesterday and found the orange and black sponges, Grube's gorg, Tangaroa goby and several coral frags. I got the feather duster and large green/brown rock flower ($10!!) at Petco, as well as a Zoa covered rock which might not be super obvious but its front center.

 

I'd never seen a black sponge before, they had it in a softie tank, they are propagating it, he said it is quite hardy. However, after attaching it I remembered they had it in shady areas in the 3 tanks it was in, will have to see how it does there.

 

The Spotted shrimp are very pretty, they are see thru with spots like sexy's and purple, pink and white banding on their legs and antennae, the largest is slightly orange tinted. There weren't enough Rock Flowers and Ricordeas to go around at first but they seem happy enough to host the gorgs instead :)

 

The Masked gobies are out a lot, the Rusty comes out most of the day and hangs upside down under a rock then darts out to catch food, he's actually in the pics but is essentially invisible. The Tangaroa just went in yesterday, he's been out a bit today and was eating brine shrimp but still mostly hides.

 

I had to clean the front glass to get pics but it wasn't near as bad as the back which the Astreas have apparently decided to work on from the bottom up, they are making progress though!

 

And finally, I got all this stuff and put it in and it still looks too sparse to me, yesterday I told myself to wait but this morning I put in a big order from Fin-Addict. They were doing 15% off your whole order plus I got another 15% off for being a first-timer and free shipping cause I'm in Florida!!! I got 10 items for under $120. It's still way more expensive then Freshwater, but this stuff is just so COOL! I'm totally hooked!

 

.............. And will probably go completely broke! ;)

 

C-ya

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Looks nice! I love your stock, I have a gorg/macro/nem tank as well. No more tap water! It is best to keep phosphate and nitrate low (phosphate more so) as you don't want algae to start growing on the sponges and gorgs as it will smother them. Just be sure to feed them particle food, there are several kinds. I use reef-roids.

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Okay, I'll pick up some water for the next change and look into getting a RO/DI unit, thanks Tamberav.

 

I have read through your mandarin threads, and those of several others keeping gorgs and sponges. For some reason that's what I envision when I think of a reef tank (gorgs, sponges, macro) rather than lots of stony corals. I guess I'm not the only one though ;)

 

I have MicroVert from Kent and I picked up Reef Snow Friday, I'll look into Reef-Roids, I haven't seen it locally. The MicroVert says to feed 2-3 times a week, but the Snow doesn't specify, are you feeding daily?

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Hi Lynaea, very cool tank, I love it. Somehow I missed this thread until now. I too set up a macro, softie 30g tank but mine is the XH for a pair of seahorses I plan to get. I want gorgonians and sponges too but the feeding them has me worried. I will have some involvement just feeding the seahorses twice a day. I plan on placing some orders with either gulf coast ecosystem or KPA for more macros and maybe a hardy photosynthetic gorg. Good job and I will be following.

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Hi vlangel,

 

I just found your tank thread this weekend and started following it too. I've been working my way through any tank threads that have gorgs or macro to try to get as much info as I can. So far feeding the gorgs / sponges seems easy enough although I haven't had them long enough to be sure I'm doing it right. ;)

 

I had great experiences with both GCE and KP, don't think you can go wrong either way.

 

I noticed you and a few others also have soft corals in your tanks, I'm curious about adding one of those too, specifically a branching one.....?. Do the ones you have get really big or need any special care?

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Okay, so on Tamberav's advice I picked up 5 gallons of RO water and did a 20(ish)% change. I also used one of the baster-feeders I got this weekend to blow off the rocks......... EEEWWWWWWW! I think I found the source of my excess nutrients! I put a sponge back in the HOB and stirred up the gunk several times when it settled, I think I'll change more water and blow out the rocks again Tuesday and maybe again larger in the week. Yuck!

 

On a positive note the fish and amphipods were enjoying all the food bits I stirred up, probably the gorgs and sponges did too. :)

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Hi vlangel,

I just found your tank thread this weekend and started following it .

I noticed you and a few others also have soft corals in your tanks, I'm curious about adding one of those too, specifically a branching one.....?. Do the ones you have get really big or need any special care?

 

Soft corals are super easy and pretty much don't need anything special. Some prefer low flow and less light but most of our tanks can accommadate that somewhere. Sinularia is a very nice green branching leather. I think that is what I have on the right side on the box but its not as green as most. I am hoping my colt coral grows fairly big but if leathers get too big you can just cut them and either give the cuttings away or heal them in a frag tank and sell them. Soft corals will wage chemical warfare on each other though if they are competing for space and light. For that reason I run carbon which absorbs most of the toxins they give off and move something if a softie is all closed up.

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Cool, the green sinularia is one I was researching. I guess the 'chemical warfare' might be why LiveAquaria suggests giving them lots of space? That's the one thing I won't have a lot of, I'd really like a full looking tank. Thanks.

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I think they can be near some corals, just not other leathers and certain softies. They can grow fairly big if they like everything.

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