melmel Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 hey cycling a new tank with some dry rock and previous live that were both in vinegar bath. Its been 2 weeks since i put a piece of frozen calamari tests show About: Ammonia 1ppm Nitrite 5ppm Nitrate 5-20ppm Using the api freshwater kit........ Was wondering \why nitrites and ammonia havent zero'd out WTF? should i remove the calamari? too much ammonia? (its a big piece about 1.5x1.5") Link to comment
LVCaniac Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 mine took a full month to finish cycling Link to comment
anizato Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 did you remove the frozen calamari? Ammonia nor Nitrite will drop until the constant source of Ammonia (squid) is removed, this will allow for Nitrates to do their thing for a week or two then drop to 0. Once Nitrites & Ammonia are at 0 for a week, do 50% WC vacuuming the rock (blow it with a turkey baster as you suck with your hose into your waste bucket). That should drop the Nitrates to 0, hopefully. If not, continue to do WC until they are low. Once they are below 10 for at least a week, you are solid and should add livestock asap. Link to comment
Snow_Phoenix Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Using the api freshwater kit........ Why are using a freshwater kit to test a saltwater tank? Link to comment
melmel Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Don't think that's a problem the colors are the same.... Link to comment
Neebles Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Don't think that's a problem the colors are the same.... Right, but I'm pretty sure freshwater kits are made to react to freshwater and saltwater kits are made to react to saltwater. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 I looked online as well as API the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are the same for fw/sw so that's not it, I did take out the calamari and just threw a pinch of flake food so im gonna check the readings tonight Side note posted this on another forum and guy said his tank took a full month to cycle; that sucks..... Link to comment
anizato Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Sometimes up to 6 weeks. Listen, your freshwater kit is designed for a specificity of ions and chemicals found in THAT particular type of water. Regardless of the colors being the same, my API kit, came with separate FRESH & SALT cards. On the feeding flakes, you don't need to do that anymore. Once you removed the squid, your cycle began. So by adding more ammonia you are only prolonging the first stage. The waiting game begins my friend. Just take tests every two or three days to monitor the cycle. First stage. Ammonia rises. Second stage. Nitrite rises, Ammonia begins to disappear. (longest waiting period of the cycle) Third stage. Nitrate rises. Nitrate begins to disappear. Ammonia should be 0 by this point. Keep the lights off during this entire process, otherwise you will encourage algae growth. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 as of today tests show about: ammonia: 0.5ppm nitirite: still 5ppm nitrate: 80-100 ppm Link to comment
fishphi784 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I have always used live rock and experience virtually 0 cycle. However, I believe cycling a tank w/o an established bio-filter can tank upwards of a month. Link to comment
Tamberav Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 two weeks isn't long enough for the cycle to finish. Sometimes it may take 4-6 weeks even. Give it time. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 two weeks isn't long enough for the cycle to finish. Sometimes it may take 4-6 weeks even. Give it time. I have always used live rock and experience virtually 0 cycle. However, I believe cycling a tank w/o an established bio-filter can tank upwards of a month. You guys seem to be right but i thought it would be like my FW tanks which took a 1-2weeks tops Do you think it would speed-en things up if I buy live rock? or the cycle already started and its redundant? Link to comment
markalot Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 as of today tests show about: ammonia: 0.5ppm nitirite: still 5ppm nitrate: 80-100 ppm This is perfectly normal. Ammonia is most likely near 0. Nitrite takes a while, it's slow. My concern with this type of cycling is that by the time you read 0 ammonia (API tends to always show .25) and 0 Nitrite the bacteria will be dead already due to the lack of a constant food source. So everything looks good, add fish, mini cycle, disease due to stress, bad start. If I were you I would find a source of pure ammonia and use it to do a fishless cycle. You say buy live rock. That has life on it, if cured, life and death if uncured, and will provide a small source of ammonia regardless. There's no magic here. Bacteria needs food, and in this case the food is ammonia and nitrite. If either of those goes to 0 and there is no new source the bacteria will die off and you will be back to square one. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 This is perfectly normal. Ammonia is most likely near 0. Nitrite takes a while, it's slow. My concern with this type of cycling is that by the time you read 0 ammonia (API tends to always show .25) and 0 Nitrite the bacteria will be dead already due to the lack of a constant food source. So everything looks good, add fish, mini cycle, disease due to stress, bad start. If I were you I would find a source of pure ammonia and use it to do a fishless cycle. You say buy live rock. That has life on it, if cured, life and death if uncured, and will provide a small source of ammonia regardless. There's no magic here. Bacteria needs food, and in this case the food is ammonia and nitrite. If either of those goes to 0 and there is no new source the bacteria will die off and you will be back to square one. I'll just add a pinch here and there of flake food , should keep it goin till everything levels out..... Link to comment
tetraodon Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 what ive allways done to my tank is start with live sand, a seed source, and bottled bacteria like stability or even a cup of sand from a fellow reefer, ive just finished cycling my 20 long with a 10 fuge in about 2 weeks, Link to comment
anizato Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 DUDE, if you are in a hurry, get Dr. Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria. I swear you add that stuff and add you CUC the day after, give it a week for your Diatoms to appear and another for them to die off. Then I would suggest adding your first coral. Because if you do not wait, then you will suffer what I have been dealing with, algae killing your coralline algae - eating it's light - (of many kinds), growing on your Coralline Algae (killing it/slowing its coloration) AND your Corals themselves will suffer. In my opinion DO NOT ADD ANY CORAL (especially any "special shrimp or invertebrates" such as Pistol Shrimp, or Sexy Shrimp, etc until you are DONE with your algae (will come and go in a matter of weeks) and after you are done acclimating any special CORAL (like Anemones, or SPS).You can add HARDY fish... like Clownfish (if you plan on having them at all, or any other 'hardy' fish) or just wait until you are done with algae and after having FUN with Water Changes and getting your system DOWN with your daily top offs, biweekly testing, daily inspections and cleaning, algae scrubbing, blowing the rock from debris while sucking it with the other hand is a skill all on its own. So once you get yourself on lock-down with your tank's rhythm, then it is why when, what everyone suggests: 'waiting 4-6 months' makes sense. Because simultaneously while you understand how to do proper water changes and vacuum your rock - care for YOUR ecosystem - algae from scrubbing glass, you are learning how your tank behaves on a weekly/biweekly basis as well, so it is a win-win. Different things occur at different times, periodically in each and every system. Learn your own's patterns. Then you add your first animal. At this point you are expected to already know what your tank needs without animals. So this addition should guarantee you to understand what your tank does with that particular amount of "bioload", and how long your particular ecosystem takes to digest this amount of bioload. Then your next week/biweek will consist of learning how to cope with that amount of bioload and figuring out your next addition. The "behavior" of your tank with each addition and such that that bioload brings along will cycle itself out each time, and so forth... which is why it is recommended at least a week or two between each addition, until fully stocked for your tank's particular capacity. (but there are always ways to stretch that "limit" : extra filtration, etc) Link to comment
LEEWINK Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Cycling isn't a text book "2 weeks", just take your time. I would suggest getting rid of the API tests though, go towards salifert or D+D deltec ones, API are notoriously un reliable. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Just took a test and I very confused lol ammonia : .25-.50 (light green ok) Nitrite: still 2-5 ppm ( purple koolaid still lol) Nitrate: 0-5ppm(took 2 tests- 1 dark yellow, 1 amber if familar with api) keep in mind the last time i checked my Nitrates were straight red(over 80ppm) how the hell did they drop so much and my Nitrites are still crazy high?!!! 18 May 2014 - 18:06 : as of today tests show about: ammonia: 0.5ppm nitirite: still 5ppm nitrate: 80-100 ppm Link to comment
anizato Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 This is a good sign! Give it time my friend. Your tank is still in Nitrite mode, which is the longest part of the cycle. Once they drop to '0' your Nitrates will rise and then you are ready. Keep testing. Keep us posted! Link to comment
melmel Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 Update : Finally Cycled, I think Ammonia- 0-0.25 ppm Nitrate- 0.25 (light blue not turquoise could be because, im using the freshwater kit as ammonia also looks different and very thick compared to my FW tank) Nitrate-5-10ppm Btw did a 25% wc and turned the skimmer on a few days ago Link to comment
Chew_Magna Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Don't think that's a problem the colors are the same.... Right, but I'm pretty sure freshwater kits are made to react to freshwater and saltwater kits are made to react to saltwater. No the bottles are the same but the color charts are different. You need to get the color charts for the saltwater. I don't have a fresh water chart anymore but iirc the two are very different. Link to comment
melmel Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 No the bottles are the same but the color charts are different. You need to get the color charts for the saltwater. I don't have a fresh water chart anymore but iirc the two are very different. My FW chart is the same as pretty similar SW chart except, for the Ph and Nitrate(only the higher part >40ppm) which looks a littler brighter on my FW chart. The main things I see the Sw Ph is about .4 ppm higher and the Nitrate on the Fw is red at 40 and orange on the SW SW One: http://www.aquariumtiptank.com/water-quality-testing-tjs-cycling-30-gallon-saltwater-aquarium Fw same as mine: http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B000255NCI?ie=UTF8&action=setImg¤tImageID=mo165J7F4652BJX¤tImagePage=0¤tImagePageOffset=4&isremote=0&page=0&pageSize=10&sort=rating&totalImages=9 Are you growing algae yet? No algae yet running an AI vega blue very low about 20% around( stil didnt make the sched....) Link to comment
anizato Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Before adding any sort of livestock, I have read recommendations that having the lights on for 4 hours, at a time, will enhance the growth of your coralline algae (IF you want it), as well as quicken the sprouting of your algae (which you eventually start killing off by less photoperiodic lapses of time and then finish it off with your CUC - which can be designed by John at ReefCleaners) I made the mistake of putting my livestock in a little early. I should have waited another month. I started having algae blooms and stuff grow on my substrate, which hasn't gone completely, but mostly. I would recommend waiting as long as you are capable of Link to comment
lil0618 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 +1 on the waiting. (Patience is key) Nothing comes quickly in this hobby except tragedy. Happy reef keeping. Link to comment
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