What do you call a reef tank without a filter?

[krourke85]

My friend Sarah was a member here years ago and she had a beautiful 80 gallon tank.

 

To my amazement, she had zero filtration.

 

She had a lot of chaeto and live rock, and she would use a power head to push water through some chemi pure elite for a few hours each month.

 

The thing is, she said she got the system set up design here and there was a specific name for this kind of reef build.

 

Has anyone heard of this before??

 

Also, her corals grew like weeds. She would sell $100 worth of coral to her LFS every month.

[MirandaCaine]

I have seen several tanks with this natural filtration set up. The rock and sand bed provides enough areobic and anaerobic surface areas for bacteria to grow, and the powerheads move the water over/ through the live rock so the bacteria can have at it. The bacteria is the filter and the cheato consumes tons of nitrate which you remove by pruning up your cheato. Im still in the research and planning stage for my 37 g, and the more I read the more I see this natural filtration, the more I love it! Less equipement = less cost, not to mention less that can break or go awry... As long as you keep your fish stock at a bare minimum you shouldn't have to worry about a protein skimmer. Lots of people run just filter floss, and if need be a little chemi pure, seagel, or phospure. Bioballs and ceramic rings tend to be nitrate factories so lots of people avoid them. Now this is all my opinion, and own conclusions from my research, but from what I can gather natural is the best way to go. Besides people have had successful reefs WAY befor the invention of all this new filter media, and UV sterilizers. I've have one LFS that insists I need a huge protein skimmer a canister filter and a UV sterilizer in order to have any luck at all, but it's their JOB to sell that stuff so of course they are going to claim its completely nesscary especially if you have any hint of being a beginer to the hobby. Again this is all personal conjecture.

[Timfish]

Delbeek and Sprung discuss the pumpless, filterless, skimmerless systems by Lee Chin Eng and Dr. Jaubert in Vol III of "The Reef Aquarium" Here's a system I've been maintaining for over 6 years that has four small pumps for water circulation that does not have external or internal filtration (except bacteria and microorganinsms) and no skimmer. Typically 3 times a month I add about 15 gallons to replace evaporation and then do a 20 gallon water change.

 

[xlzerolx]

Delbeek and Sprung discuss the pumpless, filterless, skimmerless systems by Lee Chin Eng and Dr. Jaubert in Vol III of "The Reef Aquarium" Here's a system I've been maintaining for over 6 years that has four small pumps for water circulation that does not have external or internal filtration (except bacteria and microorganinsms) and no skimmer.

 

WOWWWWWW....

how long did it take for the tank to stabilize? Does your tank sometimes get algae or cyano blooms that pass. That looks ridiculously good for such a simple setup... that birdsnest is huge!

Any tank thread for it?

[joy13]

I call it my KISS tank Keep It Stupidly Simple.

 

I had a HOB overflow that was a noisy PITA, When I changed to the aquaclear filter I got tired of trying to get in the back to change out everything so I slowly kept removing stuff first the CPE and then the filter sponge. The corner tank had developed a leak so I had to change it out. I had a friend help me he asked where all the filter media was. I got lazy. He asked if I was going to change anything I said no. When he took down the filter so I could actually see in it I was amazed how many little feather dusters was in it. There is a little hair hair algae and red bubble algae on the filter that remains in tact. I never bubble algae I could see in the tank and the hair algae on the rocks slowly died out.

 

The first tank didn't even have a heater the new one I put a heater in it and changed the koralia for a wp10 I might bump it up to the wp 25 if I decide to put some monti in it. It is a little fancier. I still top it off twice a day, feed the one fish daily and do a water change once a week.

 

BTW I used all the original sand I washed with used tank water. I am keeping my fingers crossed that everything keeps doing well in the next few months I plan on adding back the lps.

[krourke85]

Thanks everyone, especially Tim. That tank is exactly what I'm looking for, except I would like to breed ocellaris'. It has the natural, organic look of a reel reef, rather then one artificially built!

 

I know my friend said hers was based on specific set up with a name. I'm trying to find that name so I can search for future research. Maybe it's called the 'Jaubert system' or something?

 

I know this is going to sound lazy, but it isn't. While we are challenging normal conventions: Why do you need to change water?

 

My last 40g went 6 months without a water change and all 7 tests still said my water quality was perfect. Nitrogen (NH4/NO2/NO3) was leaving as gas, phosphate was leaving as algae, calcium and other minerals were added as supplements.

 

When you break it down to basics: what is removed in a water change that can't be removed by another method?

What is added in a water change that can't be added as a supplement?

[Timfish]

@ xlzerolx, Thank You! The system was presumably set up in 2004 when a house, that my friends bought in 2008, was remodeled. They knew nothing about fish, didn't even know it was saltwater and I've been taking care of it for them. It's a 240 gallon tank gets a 20 gallon water change with tap water usually every 10-12 days. Every tank will see cycles of algae and microorganisms this one is no different. A big mistake I think many aquarists make is over reacting and trying to fix something that will disappear on its own.

 

@ Krourke85, You're welcome! When Delbeek and Sprung first wrote about Dr. Jaubert's methodology in Fresh and Marine Aquarium in 1990 they made a point that Dr. Jaubert was able to maintain excellent water quality with no water changes for 4 1/2 years. This with a system that only had air bubbles providing water motion and no GFO or carbon.

 

While it is possible to maintain systems for years without water changes at some point there are going to be issues. When we look at Total Organic Carbon, or TOC, there are thousands of compounds, including refractory compounds, that we cannot test for AND the vast majority can only be removed with water changes. Additionally when you start examining at the research looking at how corals and bacteria interact the picture gets even more complex. Here's some research by Dr. Feldman, et al, I found eye opening:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature

 

Here's a 22 year old system that's been getting small weekly water changes, I doubt it could have been maintained even half as long without water changes:

 

 

 

 

 

[Alexraptor]

My 10g Mandarin tank(formerly Mantis tank) runs with Zero artificial filtration.

Nothing but a pump to move water around.

 

 

I find that systems free of mechanical filtration seem to be much much richer with and diverse with microfauna.

And with greater biodiversity they seem to be able to take much more abuse.

[krourke85]

Cool tank Alex! Biodiversity and self sustaining is what I'm aiming for. I love the idea of having successive generations of snails and shrimps, but it gets tough when all their babies get sucked through a filter...

I'm guessing the lack of filter allows a lot more food to grow for the mandarin?

 

Thanks for the reading Tim. Had some trouble loading. I am happy doing water changes every 6 months, and it is cool to see that they can go much longer. I remember a while back chemi pure was stating that with CPE you didn't have to do water changes anymore.

[iceet]

I think it's called the Berlin method. If you use it it's important to have a lot of live rock and maybe even a deep sand bed. A sump/refugium is also always a plus for the additional water volume and ability to grow chaeto and other beneficial microorganisms.

[johnmaloney]

Doomed.

 

 

Get some filtration! Rock and algae count though.

[joy13]

Doomed.

 

 

Get some filtration! Rock and algae count though.

I assumed that it was mechanical filtration not natural filtration as in rock.

 

Surface movement I think is one of the most important things that is why i run an empty AC110 on my tank.

[GoingPostal]

I'd call it nothing new. The vast majority of my tanks have been run this way, just live rock and a powerhead, it's not difficult. Don't overstock and keep up on regular water changed. Keep a hob filter around in case you want to run carbon sometimes.

[frankdontsurf]

What about food bits and turds? They just keep swimming till they land on a rock??

[Alexraptor]

Detritus generally drifts around until caught by filter feeders or until it settles in a low current spot.

The interesting part is depending on the size and biodiversity of the tank, the detritus may or may not need to be removed.

 

If you look closely at my first picture you can see some large brown patches on the rockwork, those are very large and very dense colonies of small fanworms, which feed off the particulate matter floating around in the tank, and theres even more on the opposite side.

[Nano sapiens]

'Natural System' or 'Natural Method' are the terms usually applied.

 

Side note: I've seen a B&W photo of one of the first tanks that we'd roughly recognize as a 'Reef Tank' that goes back to the 1930's in Indonesia, but what we call the 'Natural Method' was first developed by Tan Soen Hway (Lee Chin Eng was the first to write about it so his name is attributed to the method). It was originally a method designed to keep fish, but later was enhanced in Europe and combined invertebrates and fish. In Germany it became the 'Berlin System' which is how we call a system utilizing live rock and live rubble or sand along with activated carbon and a protein skimmer.

 

In it's purest form the Natural Method has some form of water movement, stable/proper temperature, fresh water top-off, live rock, live sand and water changes. And this is my method of choice...

[frankdontsurf]

What about bare bottom just live rock, high flow?

[Nano sapiens]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2014 at 8:29 PM, frankdontsurf said:

What about bare bottom just live rock, high flow?

 

The typical 'Natural Method' uses a sand bed, but as long as there is sufficient live rock for the nitrogen cycle bacteria to grow then a bare bottom tank can work, too.

[tennis20]

Sorry to be off topic but when I read the title I thought there was going to be a joke

[FlowerMama]

I guess you'd call it simpler for sure.

 

My question is where does the detritus go. Does it break down further? I just bought a sand sifting sea cucumber from Sealife Inc to help w/ that. I can't wait to get him.

[CrazyEyes]

Isn't it called the Berlin method?

[Nano sapiens]

I guess you'd call it simpler for sure.

 

My question is where does the detritus go. Does it break down further? I just bought a sand sifting sea cucumber from Sealife Inc to help w/ that. I can't wait to get him.

 

Organic material can be 'reduced' by various organisms in a system, but only up to a point.

 

The longer version. Various organisms in the food chain consume organic material and, if processed efficiently, it will end up as 'relatively' inert detritus. However, as organic material is consumed some of the contents (for example phosphates) are released into the surrounds since no organism is anywhere near 100% efficient in it's utilization. Detritus is composed or carbon, phosphates and other elements which are released slowly into the environment which increases eutrophication (the process by which a body of water becomes enriched). In addition, detritus buildup decreases the amount of flow into a substrate and therefore the number and efficiency of substrate bacteria declines.

 

Some form of detritus removal is essential for any system to survive long term. Substrate vacuuming, stirring the substrate and catching the detritus in a sock or floss, stirring and removal via water changes...they all accomplish the same goal of detritus removal.

 

There will always be some detritus in a reef tank, but good husbandry will help ensure it doesn't build up and will promote a healthy system for years to come.

[Alexraptor]

The type of sandbed also plays a huge role.

I have noticed that most people seem to use a coarser grain sandbed that is unsuitable for a lot of the needed microfauna, and its also prone to letting detritus slip through the cracks into the sandbed itself.

Macroalgae also plays it part as does microalgae.

Think of it as trying to do your very best to create a complete ecosystem.

 

The greater the biodiversity, the more stable and self-sustaining the tank becomes.

Though you can never eliminate water changes, since you need those to replenish trace elements.

[Chew_Magna]

Though you can never eliminate water changes, since you need those to replenish trace elements.

Sure you can eliminate water changes. Myself and others here run tanks without doing water changes. I haven't done one in maybe 6 months now, others have gone years without doing them. Replenishing trace elements is done via dosing.

[NanoTank1]

Sure you can eliminate water changes. Myself and others here run tanks without doing water changes. I haven't done one in maybe 6 months now, others have gone years without doing them. Replenishing trace elements is done via dosing.

 

Huh? Wow. How are you able to do that? That is my dream:-)