Korallen-Zucht ZEOvit Nano Thread

[NanoTopia]

Copper, hmm. Trace amounts, I would hope.

Actually I think the amount is pretty high, this is why such a small dose is needed.

[nova423]

I wonder if they will do the October sale too.

 

Facilitator is a great explanation... This is from zeovit guide :Coral Snow is a liquid form secondary biological facilitator for elements such as Bbalance and Potassium-Iodide/Flouride Concentrate. It is also compatible with Amino Acids and Coral Vitalizer. Coral Snow contains a natural calcium-magnesium carbonate among other ingredients. The particles as well as the other compounds can be taken up directly by the corals. Coral Snow neutralizes unwanted acids and yellowing compounds and can be beneficial in the prevention of e.g. slime algae and cyano bacteria. We dose Coral Snow daily, every time with a different element, The necessary amount of Coral Snow is poured into a small container and mixed with the to be dosed element. Gently mix and let it sit for about 5 minutes. Then add it directly to the tank at an area with high water flow. You can use 0.5 to max. 4 ml Coral Snow per 25 gallons daily. The initial cloudiness is not harmful to fishes or even the most sensitive corals. We have been successful eliminating cyanobacteria with the help of Coral Snow. In order to do that, add 1 drop of ZEObac per 25 gallons of tank water to the Coral Snow. Dose every two days until cyanobacteria is gone. It is not necessary to turn the skimmer down or off during dosing. You will notice the water is extremely clear after the initial cloudiness disappears. It appears very similar to when fresh activated carbon is placed into a tank. Please be aware that the clear water in combination with intense lighting can initially burn your corals. We recommend you raise your lights for about a week if that occurs.

It's magic German flocculant!

[Kalanianaole]

I put together a spread sheet for people wanting to dose the KZ Nano Pack, based on my past experience with the products, this is what I think are good starting doses based on your net water volume. Some tweaking may be required based on your current nutrient levels, less is generally more when it comes to the ZEOvit products as they are quite concentrated. It is best to start dosing one product at a time so you can see what effects each product has on your corals and tank in general.

 

 

Thanks so much for this. Just to be sure, when you say drop you mean using the pipette from the bottle itself, correct? And is there any reason to not dose the four products on the same days?

[evo_2679]

The Nano Pack bottles already have the dropper built in the lid. I have be using the guide above with out any issues and been using the dropper provided by the nano bottles. But if you buy the bigger bottles then you will need to most likely need pick up some (1ml - 3ml) plastic syringes as they do not come with a dropper or pipette.

[evo_2679]

Each cube has a set release rate based on 50L net water, they last for 4 months. The release rate is based on regular suggested dosing of the liquid counterparts, but IME that can sometimes be too much. This is why I am not fond of the idea, I would start with half the cube personally and take it from there. Of course none of these products should be dosed unless the tank is running low nutrient, stable, and algae free.

 

NanoTopia,

 

Ok - so I guess I'll be the guinea pig on the cubes. I am planning on ordering the B-Balance / PIF. But do you think the Iron cube is worth it? Not too sure on this one / is there any actual benefit to adding the iron? I know it helps with the color green. Also the cube rate per piece is 50L = roughly 13 gallons. Do you have any suggestion on how to calculate the consumption rate for the cubes? If I add 1 piece to my tank (roughly about 32 gallons w/ sump maybe a little more) 13 gallons / 32 gallons = a rate of .41ml per day, and if I cut the piece in 1/2 - 6.5 gallons / 32 gallons = a rate of .20ml per day. Is this correct?

[Kalanianaole]

The Nano Pack bottles already have the dropper built in the lid. I have be using the guide above with out any issues and been using the dropper provided by the nano bottles. But if you buy the bigger bottles then you will need to most likely need pick up some (1ml - 3ml) plastic syringes as they do not come with a dropper or pipette.

 

Thought so, but with how concentrated these are wanted to make sure.

 

-I remember reading (maybe earlier in this thread) that the Nano Pack is something of a random assortment of products. Are there any other KZ products (non-Zeovit system) that synergize well with these four?

-I'm debating prioritizing pocillopora and seriatopora - is Stylo - Pocci Glow recommended?

-Does Amino Acid High Concentrate (intended for SPS, right) overlap with AA LPS or SP Glow? Meaning, would I be overdosing if I use it as well?

-Finally, since Coral Snow acts as a facilitator for uptake on the other supplements, is that recommended too?

 

Sorry for so many quesitons, but the literature that I've found on this is a bit vague. Rather surprised KZ hasn't laid out their product line incomprehensive charts to answer questions like these. Maybe they can subcontract NanoTopia...

[evo_2679]

Thought so, but with how concentrated these are wanted to make sure.

 

-I remember reading (maybe earlier in this thread) that the Nano Pack is something of a random assortment of products. Are there any other KZ products (non-Zeovit system) that synergize well with these four?

-I'm debating prioritizing pocillopora and seriatopora - is Stylo - Pocci Glow recommended?

-Does Amino Acid High Concentrate (intended for SPS, right) overlap with AA LPS or SP Glow? Meaning, would I be overdosing if I use it as well?

-Finally, since Coral Snow acts as a facilitator for uptake on the other supplements, is that recommended too?

 

Sorry for so many quesitons, but the literature that I've found on this is a bit vague. Rather surprised KZ hasn't laid out their product line incomprehensive charts to answer questions like these. Maybe they can subcontract NanoTopia...

 

Kalanianaole

 

I dose vinegar to stay as close as possible to a ULNS. Vinegar is must more forgiving then Vodka. I never used Stylo-Pocci Glow but have read good reviews on the stuff. The AAHC I believe is intended for SPS but I have had such good results with the AA LPS, that I have just bought a big bottle of it to continue use of this product. I only have about 8 LPS but all the SPS and LPS respond great to this product. I would only dose one AA product as it would be probably over kill to dose both and could create an unwanted algae outbreak. I just started dosing Coral Snow about 2 weeks ago / so far I like it. NanoTopia / SF Tron recommend mixing with my MB 7 and letting it sit for 5 minutes then dump into the tank. It's cloudy for about 30-40 minutes but after that it’s crystal clear water. I agree some the KZ products / literature is not to clear on how the product(s) will affect the tank. But all in all I am extremely happy with the KZ products. I agree KZ should subcontract NanoTopia or aleast let her sample the new products to give the public an unbiased opinion / review!!

[NanoTopia]

Thought so, but with how concentrated these are wanted to make sure.

 

-I remember reading (maybe earlier in this thread) that the Nano Pack is something of a random assortment of products. Are there any other KZ products (non-Zeovit system) that synergize well with these four?

-I'm debating prioritizing pocillopora and seriatopora - is Stylo - Pocci Glow recommended?

-Does Amino Acid High Concentrate (intended for SPS, right) overlap with AA LPS or SP Glow? Meaning, would I be overdosing if I use it as well?

-Finally, since Coral Snow acts as a facilitator for uptake on the other supplements, is that recommended too?

 

Sorry for so many quesitons, but the literature that I've found on this is a bit vague. Rather surprised KZ hasn't laid out their product line incomprehensive charts to answer questions like these. Maybe they can subcontract NanoTopia...

LOL, yes I would be happy to do it "if" the money was right.

 

Coral Snow is a great product for keeping the tank clean, also you may like to check out BIOmate.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about AAHC if you are dosing Xtra as Xtra contains AA as well. They are different AA than in AALPS.

 

You could try Stylo/Pocci Glow if your corals are already healthy. This product will expel zooxanthelle from those corals and lighten them, thus the glow.

 

Consider also, B-Balance and K-Balance to your regimen.

 

Have a look, this might help a little also...

produkt_finder_dosage_schedule.pdf

KZ Problem Solving Guide.pdf

[farkwar]

Thom should already be writing you checks.

[NanoTopia]

NanoTopia,

 

Ok - so I guess I'll be the guinea pig on the cubes. I am planning on ordering the B-Balance / PIF. But do you think the Iron cube is worth it? Not too sure on this one / is there any actual benefit to adding the iron? I know it helps with the color green. Also the cube rate per piece is 50L = roughly 13 gallons. Do you have any suggestion on how to calculate the consumption rate for the cubes? If I add 1 piece to my tank (roughly about 32 gallons w/ sump maybe a little more) 13 gallons / 32 gallons = a rate of .41ml per day, and if I cut the piece in 1/2 - 6.5 gallons / 32 gallons = a rate of .20ml per day. Is this correct?

I would not touch the iron IMO. The other cubes are okay but the delivery amount is slightly sketchy.

 

The issue I have with the auto-dosing elements is that it goes against the rule of dosing based on the look of corals. Now BB is generally steady delivery, I dose the same on a schedule so I can see that one being okay. Iodine I also dose on schedule but there are times I stop dosing based on what I see in the tank, you have to pull out the half dissolved cube to do that with auto elements. Messy IMO.

 

If you have 32 gallons NET then 2 cubes every 3-4 months would be maximum dose IMO. If you wanted to dose conservatively then just put one cube in. I assume the delivery is equivalent to standard bottle dosing recommendations, something I never follow personally. The cubes were designed to keep a stable concentration of element in the water at all times. Whether or not it makes much difference is yet to see. It also makes it easier for people with dementia who can't remember to dose it twice a week or people who are on vacation.

 

Let me know how it goes.

[NanoTopia]

Thom should already be writing you checks.

LOL, he won't even answer my emails, it's true.

[evo_2679]

I would not touch the iron IMO. The other cubes are okay but the delivery amount is slightly sketchy.

 

The issue I have with the auto-dosing elements is that it goes against the rule of dosing based on the look of corals. Now BB is generally steady delivery, I dose the same on a schedule so I can see that one being okay. Iodine I also dose on schedule but there are times I stop dosing based on what I see in the tank, you have to pull out the half dissolved cube to do that with auto elements. Messy IMO.

 

If you have 32 gallons NET then 2 cubes every 3-4 months would be maximum dose IMO. If you wanted to dose conservatively then just put one cube in. I assume the delivery is equivalent to standard bottle dosing recommendations, something I never follow personally. The cubes were designed to keep a stable concentration of element in the water at all times. Whether or not it makes much difference is yet to see. It also makes it easier for people with dementia who can't remember to dose it twice a week or people who are on vacation.

 

Let me know how it goes.

 

Thanks NanoTopia!!! Going to get the BB and PIF a try at 1 cube and see how long it actually last in the sump. So far I am impressed with the KZ supplements and I cant see this cube thing being a bust (only time will tell) / maybe Thomas Phol will make Xtra Special in a cube too!!

 

LOL, he won't even answer my emails, it's true.

Really - i just got an email from him earlier today. Had a question on how to place an order on the zeovit website / and if they take paypal. PS they do. But shipping and customs is PITA to the states!!

[NanoTopia]

Thanks NanoTopia!!! Going to get the BB and PIF a try at 1 cube and see how long it actually last in the sump. So far I am impressed with the KZ supplements and I cant see this cube thing being a bust (only time will tell) / maybe Thomas Phol will make Xtra Special in a cube too!!

 

Really - i just got an email from him earlier today. Had a question on how to place an order on the zeovit website / and if they take paypal. PS they do. But shipping and customs is PITA to the states!!

I am the forgotten one I guess

[evo_2679]

I am the forgotten one I guess

I'll email him back and put in a good word for you. Not sure if that will help or not ? But shoot it can't hurt. Heck I just might be putting myself on his black list email too!!!

[NanoTopia]

I'll email him back and put in a good word for you. Not sure if that will help or not ? But shoot it can't hurt. Heck I just might be putting myself on his black list email too!!!

LOL, not to worry, all is good, he's a good guy, just busy I guess. I just share my limited knowledge of the ZEOvit method with others who are interested because I can, no other reason.

[D Z]

If you install a return pump that pumps 50GPH and run the stones in a mesh bag in the rear middle or last chamber, this will allow for you to shake the stones daily and you should get around 25GPH flow through the stones. It is not optimum and may require some tweaking along the way but it should work. You don't need a lot of flow through the rear chamber for filtration to be effective, in fact lower flow is much better for filtration, sump or otherwise.

 

One of the things that make ZEOvit so effective are the stones, not their specific bacteria so much however, their bacterial strains are the best on the market IMO. There are many people running hybrid systems successfully so that is also an option for you.

 

Part of running a successful ULNS is what materials you start off with in the first place, mainly rock and substrate. If those have PO4 leaching it will not be achievable for quite some time. Choose rock and sand carefully, soak both in RO water (if dry rock) for some time and check for PO4 before adding it to the tank. If live rock it can also leach bound nutrients to the tank so rock should be clean and healthy, well cured.

I decided to just go passively for now, i.e. no stones. I will have to see how it goes, but I am going to attempt to get the system running and achieve a stable ulns with just the skimmer and careful feeding. As far as my rock and substrate, I went with dry rock from reefcleaners and Seaflor special grade aragonite. I have had the rock soaking in RODI for about 5 days now and will be checking the PO4 levels tonight. The sand is going to go into a soak once the rock is done.

 

Once that is done and I get the tank filled with substrate, rock and water, I am planning on seeding with a combo of Zeobak and MB7 to give a nice diverse bacteria colony for the tank to cycle off of. I really do not want to seed with live rock. What is you thoughts on this? Any idea on how much of each I should add and if it should be just once, daily, etc.

 

Once the system is done cycling and I have stable and low nutrients, this is the dosing schedule I am planning on starting. Let me know what you think.

https://flic.kr/p/oAQmbX'>https://flic.kr/p/oAQmbX'>Capture by https://www.flickr.com/people//'>cchsoracle, on Flickr

[NanoTopia]

I decided to just go passively for now, i.e. no stones. I will have to see how it goes, but I am going to attempt to get the system running and achieve a stable ulns with just the skimmer and careful feeding. As far as my rock and substrate, I went with dry rock from reefcleaners and Seaflor special grade aragonite. I have had the rock soaking in RODI for about 5 days now and will be checking the PO4 levels tonight. The sand is going to go into a soak once the rock is done.

 

Once that is done and I get the tank filled with substrate, rock and water, I am planning on seeding with a combo of Zeobak and MB7 to give a nice diverse bacteria colony for the tank to cycle off of. I really do not want to seed with live rock. What is you thoughts on this? Any idea on how much of each I should add and if it should be just once, daily, etc.

 

Once the system is done cycling and I have stable and low nutrients, this is the dosing schedule I am planning on starting. Let me know what you think.

Capture by cchsoracle, on Flickr

 

My thoughts are that you will never achieve ULNS without some kind of media long term. Nutrients will build up over time and PO4/NO3 will go up. I am dealing with this now as my 7 gallon LPS tank has NO3 climbing, this is not a ZEOvit tank, I am going to try the "All in one" bio-pellets for this tank. They came in the mail today.

 

Live rock brings with it the good and bad. The good can not be replicated artificially, these organisms need to be introduced either through live rock, frag plugs, or snails etc. The bad can often be dealt with in the beginning with a bit of attention and husbandry, once any unwanted pests are identified they can be removed. Always helps to start off with quality live rock. Dry rock only acts as a habitat for the bacteria you introduce and it takes months to become fully saturated and functional. Expect cycling and stability to take some extra time, I would give it 3-6 months personally.

 

I have introduced more unwanted pests to my tanks (including bryopsis and AEFW) from frag plugs/mountings over the years than I have ever with live rock. Live rock has a bad wrap IMO.

 

I would only dose Xtra Special 0.5mL twice a week. 1mL daily is a big over dose of AA as the Xtra Special is very concentrated. I would start with 1 drop AA a week, this can be increased later if needed.

[4x5]

Expect cycling and stability to take some extra time, I would give it 3-6 months personally.

I went dry rock only and I agree, it took a good 6 months for the system to stabilise and when it did it seemed to change overnight. So you'll know when it happens. I'll be using good quality live rock as well as dry rock for my next tank.

[D Z]

My thoughts are that you will never achieve ULNS without some kind of media long term. Nutrients will build up over time and PO4/NO3 will go up. I am dealing with this now as my 7 gallon LPS tank has NO3 climbing, this is not a ZEOvit tank, I am going to try the "All in one" bio-pellets for this tank. They came in the mail today.

 

Live rock brings with it the good and bad. The good can not be replicated artificially, these organisms need to be introduced either through live rock, frag plugs, or snails etc. The bad can often be dealt with in the beginning with a bit of attention and husbandry, once any unwanted pests are identified they can be removed. Always helps to start off with quality live rock. Dry rock only acts as a habitat for the bacteria you introduce and it takes months to become fully saturated and functional. Expect cycling and stability to take some extra time, I would give it 3-6 months personally.

 

I have introduced more unwanted pests to my tanks (including bryopsis and AEFW) from frag plugs/mountings over the years than I have ever with live rock. Live rock has a bad wrap IMO.

 

I would only dose Xtra Special 0.5mL twice a week. 1mL daily is a big over dose of AA as the Xtra Special is very concentrated. I would start with 1 drop AA a week, this can be increased later if needed.

Let me know how the AIO pellets work out for you. If/when I do end up with the same issue, I will consider my options(bag of stones with proper flow rate, biopellets, vodka or vinegar dosing).

 

The dry rock was also more of a aesthetic choice for me. I just love the look of the clean dry rock, even though it will not stay that way forever. I will take it slow and careful to make sure I have a solid cycle before over-doing it with inhabitants.

 

I had a feeling the 1ml of Pohl's xtra special daily was a lot. That is what was recommend on the bottle, but I have heard that it is very concentrated. Here is my final revised dosing schedule.

https://flic.kr/p/oz8ycd'>https://flic.kr/p/oz8ycd'>Capture by https://www.flickr.com/people//'>cchsoracle, on Flickr

[D Z]

I went dry rock only and I agree, it took a good 6 months for the system to stabilise and when it did it seemed to change overnight. So you'll know when it happens. I'll be using good quality live rock as well as dry rock for my next tank.

Can you elaborate a bit more? Did you seed with anything, whether it be live rock or bottled bacteria? What were the biggest changes that you noticed or the biggest problems that you had before it stabilized? Just wondering what to expect and watch out for. I also noticed from you build thread that you started adding coral appx. 3 weeks after filling it up with water. Is that about right?

[4x5]

Can you elaborate a bit more? Did you seed with anything, whether it be live rock or bottled bacteria? What were the biggest changes that you noticed or the biggest problems that you had before it stabilized? Just wondering what to expect and watch out for. I also noticed from you build thread that you started adding coral appx. 3 weeks after filling it up with water. Is that about right?

I added some Ammonia and dosed Seachem Stability to kick things off. And yes, added my Hammer Coral after about 3 weeks once everything looked OK.

 

As far as issues; Nothing was dying but I was struggling to nail down my parameters, Alk and Cal were fluctuating, one week I'd use more Calcium and the next more Alk, at that point I was also using up quite a lot of Magnesium and then one day everything just stabilised and I've pretty much had solid numbers since then.

 

It's hard to explain, it was just a very real feeling of the tank saying: "Ok, I'm ready now". Either that or I had a really crap batch of salt and the whole zen moment is a fraud.

[AJ_Tsin]

I used almost 100% Reef bones (AKA dead dry old Live Rock) and eventually added a single small piece of Coraline coated Live Rock to speed things up.

I soaked the Bones in RO-DI with a powerhead for weeks and weeks, rinsing, turkey baster blasting and doing 100% water changes while running GFO to completely strip it of dead and decaying nutrients and more importantly PO4. Once Phosphate was no longer testing positive or rising after a few days of no GFO, I added salt, heat, a skimmer and cured them for another month or so before adding them to the display to begin the 14 Day Zeo Cycle. At this time I added 1 piece of LR. Things still took a while and things would ebb and flow for another couple months until stability was noticable and as 4x5 stated you can just tell when you finally hit that equilibrium.

This process took quite some time but worth it. It is incredibly easy to keep this system clean.

[farkwar]

I like that term "reef bones".

[D Z]

Thanks for the information everyone. Last night, I did a water test on the RODI that the "reef bones" have been soaking in a PO4 was undetectable. Am I missing something here? Is it possible I got good quality dry rock that is not leaching any PO4? For now, I am planning on starting to play with the rock to come up with a nice solid scape, while my aragonite soaks in RODI for a couple days, and then move from there.

[NanoTopia]

Thanks for the information everyone. Last night, I did a water test on the RODI that the "reef bones" have been soaking in a PO4 was undetectable. Am I missing something here? Is it possible I got good quality dry rock that is not leaching any PO4? For now, I am planning on starting to play with the rock to come up with a nice solid scape, while my aragonite soaks in RODI for a couple days, and then move from there.

How long has it been soaking and is the test kit you are using capable of measuring PO4 in freshwater?