Korallen-Zucht ZEOvit Nano Thread

[Alex B]

Uugghuhh..so here I am all excited, ready for my light to make a entrance tom..and boom!

Cloudy water...this sucks...I'm sure it's just a bacteria bloom. Any zeo heads care to comment? I lowered my zeostart dose a few days ago...I'm now dosing it twice daily at .15

 

Anyone have any ideas? I'm hanging my light tom and picking up a lot of stuff on sat and sun. Reefapalooza!

Ohhh well guess I will have to deal with it. It really doesn't bother me, but would like to know if it's something in my dosing schedule.

 

Zeostart 3 twice daily at .15 .30 total

Zeobak 3 drops twice a week

Sponge power 3 drops daily

[Walker]

If it's a bacterial bloom, I'd adjust my skimmer to skim wet for a couple of days. I've had it a couple of times and it's always cleared up within a day or so.

[AJ_Tsin]

Uugghuhh..so here I am all excited, ready for my light to make a entrance tom..and boom!

Cloudy water...this sucks...I'm sure it's just a bacteria bloom. Any zeo heads care to comment? I lowered my zeostart dose a few days ago...I'm now dosing it twice daily at .15

 

Anyone have any ideas? I'm hanging my light tom and picking up a lot of stuff on sat and sun. Reefapalooza!

Ohhh well guess I will have to deal with it. It really doesn't bother me, but would like to know if it's something in my dosing schedule.

 

Zeostart 3 twice daily at .15 .30 total

Zeobak 3 drops twice a week

Sponge power 3 drops daily

From what I recall you just added your fish 4 or 5 days ago?

 

This is absolutely a bacterial bloom just dealing with the excess nutrients likely from adding 4 fish at once. Water changes won't help the cloudiness much but it will help to keep nutrients down. If fish are breathing heavily add an air stone. Not much you can do but wait it out and if the fish are not struggling because of a lack of O2 then not much you should do.

 

Your Autotrophic Bacteria (Slow multiplying Nitrifying kind) need to catch up to your Heterotrophic (quickly reproducing organic carbon loving kind) which is causing the bloom.

 

I would stop dosing ZeoStart3 until the cloudiness subsided and then SLOWLY ramp back up.

 

We almost all get these blooms in the early months of a reef. I dealt with a weeklong bloom in my reef with only two clowns at the 1.5 or 2 month mark.

 

I suggest dosing Coral Snow every other night or so to help clear things up. Skim wet, and do some additional water changes to keep nutrients down while your tank deals with the new fish.

[Alex B]

From what I recall you just added your fish 4 or 5 days ago?

This is absolutely a bacterial bloom just dealing with the excess nutrients likely from adding 4 fish at once. Water changes won't help the cloudiness much but it will help to keep nutrients down. If fish are breathing heavily add an air stone. Not much you can do but wait it out and if the fish are not struggling because of a lack of O2 then not much you should do.

Your Autotrophic Bacteria (Slow multiplying Nitrifying kind) need to catch up to your Heterotrophic (quickly reproducing organic carbon loving kind) which is causing the bloom.

I would stop dosing ZeoStart3 until the cloudiness subsided and then SLOWLY ramp back up.

 

We almost all get these blooms in the early months of a reef. I dealt with a weeklong bloom in my reef with only two clowns at the 1.5 or 2 month mark.

I suggest dosing Coral Snow every other night or so to help clear things up. Skim wet, and do some additional water changes to keep nutrients down while your tank deals with the new fish.

Thanks Aj. I know it's just a bloom. You are right about adding all 4 fish at once. I shouldn't have done it. I was only going to add my tang, and my wife surprised me with the anthias. It was a nice gesture but I was worried about something like this happening. All the fish seem to be ok. The tank is a month and a half in so it is expected. No one is breathing heavy or acting weird. I have another cycled tank incase of emergencies. I'm prepping 10 gallons now and will hold off on dosing zeostart for a few days. It's funny everything was fine before I split my zeostart dosing into twice a day.

 

Just did a water test and everything is at 0 so thats a good sign. Every bacteria bloom I have ever had only lasted a few days. Hopefully this one will be the same. I have leaned it's better to let nature take it's course when something like this happens. I will do just 1 water change and let it ride out. Thanks again Aj

[mclayj]

I'm planning to set up a new pico tank focused on SPS and am thinking about trying Zeovit. I also plan to stock a few high end zoa's. Please see below for my tank specs

 

Tank Specs

Tank: 14.5"x12"x7" custom AIO built by PicO Aquariums

Lighting: Nanobox Mini Tide

Water Movement: MP10 on short pulse (level 2-3)

Filtration: Poly Filter Floss (Mechanical) & KV Carbon/Seachem GAC (Chemical)

Water Change: 25% WC weekly

Aquascape: Plan is to have 2 shallow live rocks to attach the SPS to and allow maximum room to grow given the extremely shallow profile of the tank. I am also planning to run this tank without sand (I have no found any reference to negative effects of BB and Zeo dosing)

Stocking: Due to the small size of the tank and running without a skimmer I plan to have this tank extremely lightly stocked. Thinking about either a tailspot blenny or green clown goby

 

I will not be running a skimmer on this tank so my biggest concern is around dosing Zeovit additives without the nutrient export usually found in tanks running skimmers.

 

After researching the program over the last few weeks the additives I was planning to dose are:

1. Zeobac
2. ZeoStart? (worried about concentration given prior comments in this thread among others and how little water volume I will have in this tank)
3. Nano Power Pack
   1. Coral Vitalizer
   2. Pohl's Xtra
   3. Amino Acid LPS
   4. Sponge Power

I would really appreciate if the Zeovit experts could let me know their thoughts on my plan. Tank will not be ready for 3-4 weeks so I have plenty of time to decide on my dosing regime. Thanks!

[farkwar]

No stones and no skimmer?

 

Honestly, one could take a small inexpensive reactor, like the small TLF reactor, and give it a good shake daily. Maybe even one of those IM or Aqua Gadget nano reactors.

 

I would only go skimmerless on any system, if I planned 100% water changes weekly.

[mclayj]

No stones and no skimmer?

 

Honestly, one could take a small inexpensive reactor, like the small TLF reactor, and give it a good shake daily. Maybe even one of those IM or Aqua Gadget nano reactors.

 

I would only go skimmerless on any system, if I planned 100% water changes weekly.

 

I wasn't planning to run either stones or a skimmer but I certainly understand where you're coming from. The reason I am not planning to is not an issue of cost but more of ease of use (wanting to use as little equipment as possible) and aesthetics (any skimmer would stick out 5-8" above the tank due to the shallow profile). I have seen many tanks that go skimmer/reactor-less with much higher bioloads then I am planning which is what has made me comfortable with this plan. I am also not against running this tank with no fish if most people feel I will run into issues with high nutrients from fish or dosing zeovit and plan to routinely test parameters so I can adjust accordingly.

 

That being said, I don't want to distract this thread from its purpose which is Zeovit. Is there a specific concern with using zeo additives with no skimmer or more generally just running skimmerless? Is there concerns with dosing specific zee products with no stones/skimmer?

 

Candidly the purpose of this tank is to prep some SPS frags into colonies as I slowly put together a 24"x24"x12" sumped system in ~18 months when I purchase my first home and finally stop renting. I will then use the pico as a small quarantine tank.

 

Thanks everyone!

[AJ_Tsin]

I'm planning to set up a new pico tank focused on SPS and am thinking about trying Zeovit. I also plan to stock a few high end zoa's. Please see below for my tank specs

 

Tank Specs

Tank: 12"x12"x7" custom AIO built by PicO Aquariums

Lighting: Nanobox Mini Tide

Water Movement: MP10 on short pulse (level 2-3)

Filtration: Poly Filter Floss (Mechanical) & KV Carbon/Seachem GAC (Chemical)

Water Change: 25% WC weekly

Aquascape: Plan is to have 2 shallow live rocks to attach the SPS to and allow maximum room to grow given the extremely shallow profile of the tank. I am also planning to run this tank without sand (I have no found any reference to negative effects of BB and Zeo dosing)

Stocking: Due to the small size of the tank and running without a skimmer I plan to have this tank extremely lightly stocked. Thinking about either a tailspot blenny or green clown goby

 

I will not be running a skimmer on this tank so my biggest concern is around dosing Zeovit additives without the nutrient export usually found in tanks running skimmers.

 

After researching the program over the last few weeks the additives I was planning to dose are:

1. Zeobac
2. ZeoStart? (worried about concentration given prior comments in this thread among others and how little water volume I will have in this tank)
3. Nano Power Pack
   1. Coral Vitalizer
   2. Pohl's Xtra
   3. Amino Acid LPS
   4. Sponge Power

I would really appreciate if the Zeovit experts could let me know their thoughts on my plan. Tank will not be ready for 3-4 weeks so I have plenty of time to decide on my dosing regime. Thanks!

Carbon Dosing, or ZeoStart3 specifically, without a skimmer is not advisable, it is certainly not effective and in most cases detrimental.

 

The main mechanism for an ULNS is the skimmer. You add organic carbon as a food source for bacteria which then reproduces quickly (or faster than a tank without a carbon source), as they reproduce they consume Nitrate and Phosphate. At this point the skimmer is needed to pull the bound nutrients out of the system. If this wasn't the case you would get bacterial blooms or just recurring dieoffs causing problems and never really depleting nutrients.

 

With ZeoVit the Zeolites also work to absorb ammonia before it even gets a chance to become Nitrate or Nitrite so your nutrient "starting point" is even lower.

 

A Skimmer, ZeoLites, Zeobak and Zeo Start3 are the basics to the method and without them you aren't really running a Zeovit ULNS system.

 

If you plan on running no skimmer or reactor, you may be better off just dosing ZeoBak from time to time and keeping up with water changes. You may eventually find that the power pack additives help you, but if you are switching out water often I would think the corals would be happy enough without supplementation and you will probably not be hitting ULNS with this style setup so to add amino acids or nutrient supplements may be overkill.

[D Z]

Carbon Dosing, or ZeoStart3 specifically, without a skimmer is not advisable, it is certainly not effective and in most cases detrimental.

 

The main mechanism for an ULNS is the skimmer. You add organic carbon as a food source for bacteria which then reproduces quickly (or faster than a tank without a carbon source), as they reproduce they consume Nitrate and Phosphate. At this point the skimmer is needed to pull the bound nutrients out of the system. If this wasn't the case you would get bacterial blooms or just recurring dieoffs causing problems and never really depleting nutrients.

 

With ZeoVit the Zeolites also work to absorb ammonia before it even gets a chance to become Nitrate or Nitrite so your nutrient "starting point" is even lower.

 

A Skimmer, ZeoLites, Zeobak and Zeo Start3 are the basics to the method and without them you aren't really running a Zeovit ULNS system.

 

If you plan on running no skimmer or reactor, you may be better off just dosing ZeoBak from time to time and keeping up with water changes. You may eventually find that the power pack additives help you, but if you are switching out water often I would think the corals would be happy enough without supplementation and you will probably not be hitting ULNS with this style setup so to add amino acids or nutrient supplements may be overkill.

I will be able to provide some input to this over the next month or so. I have a tank around the same dimensions as the one being discussed and I am not running a skimmer or reactor. Up until now, I have had both chemipure and purigen in the tank and have been consistently reading under 1 ppm of nitrate and 0 phosphates. From what I have been told, though, chemipure and purigen do not play well with zeovit.

 

Therefore, I am planning on taking out the chemipure and purigen and replacing it with just Seachem Matrix Carbon and then starting to dose zeobak and the nano power pack. I plan to monitor the nitrate and phosphate levels as I do this to see if they remain low. Hopefully they will, but if I run into any issues, I am prepared to add a skimmer, probably the Tunze 9004. I also have thought about adding stones to the bottom compartment of my InTank basket and just giving the basket a shake every day. I am not aiming to run a true Zeovit ULNS. I am looking to just take advantage of the benefits of the power pack additives. I plan to try to document this as best as possible and will let you all know how it goes.

[NanoTopia]

Any bacterial driven system other than "full" ZEOvit, is a "hybrid" system, there are a multitude of possible applications but IMO not running a skimmer with any biologically driven filtration system is not advisable long term. Most of the ZEOvit products can be run on non-ZEOvit hybrid tanks that are also running strong skimming, results will seldom be as good as running the full system as specified however.

 

Using a few ZEOvit additives on a non-bacterial driven system is only "supplementation" with ZEOvit products, some are not advisable to use as they require strong skimming and a low nutrient environment to work effectively.

 

The coloration additives (ones that enhance colour primarily) are only effective if the system is running low nutrient and stable, corals should appear pale. Many of the ZEOvit products will have little to no effect if nutrients are high, basically you are just wasting your money.

 

The ZEOvit food products like Coral Vitalizer, AAHC, AALPS, and Sponge Power are your best bet on any system that is running fairly low nutrients. The addition of Pohl's Xtra, Potassium Iodide Flouride (PIF), and B-Balance to name a few, can be used as a colour enhancer if necessary.

 

The problem solvers like Biomate, cyanoclean, ZEOzym, and Coral Snow require strong skimming, often wet skimming after use. Water changes do not replace strong skimming IMO.

 

I will say that my 7 gallon nano runs well off just a skimmer, filter sock, and GAC. I dose 1-2 drops ZEObak a week with Coral Snow, Sponge power 1 drop daily, AALPS 1mL once a week. The system is stable and pest algae free but I would not consider it to be low nutrient or even a hybrid system, mainly because I do not drive the bacteria with any kind of liquid or solid carbon source.

[mclayj]

I really appreciate the feedback. My primary reason for wanting to dose the zeovit products is for SPS coloration. Given that objective, I will have to put some thought into either just dosing something like Pohl's after my system is stable and seeing if that has any positive reaction on coloration or going down the route of a skimmer and full zeo system. Thanks again for the help everyone

[NanoTopia]

I really appreciate the feedback. My primary reason for wanting to dose the zeovit products is for SPS coloration. Given that objective, I will have to put some thought into either just dosing something like Pohl's after my system is stable and seeing if that has any positive reaction on coloration or going down the route of a skimmer and full zeo system. Thanks again for the help everyone

Have you talked to Tron (member) regarding adding ZEOlife to your system. I have not used it personally but I know he has just started using it. ZEOlife is a biological facilitator for use in all tanks but it can help to support a system that does not use a reactor or PO4 absorber. Basically it can help keep nutrients low by maximizing the live rock/substrate biology. There is one tank on the ZEOvit forum, "Island Reef", that is running low nutrients, dosing some ZEOvit products including ZEObak, strong skimming, and not much else. His tank is award winning and has been featured in magazines, you may have seen it. I still say you should do the skimmer, it is the back bone of any successful SPS reef and should not be over looked IMO.

[NanoTopia]

Any full zeovit users running more than the recommended amount of stones in their reactor?

 

What are your thoughts?

[Walker]

What are people's thoughts about switching from Microbacter7 as a bacterial additive to Zeobak? I'm just about out of MB7 and am thinking of switching over to Zeobak for a vinegar-driven carbon dosing regimen. MB7 has been working well for me but I'm always thinking Zeobak may be more effective.

[exactlyobp]

Any full zeovit users running more than the recommended amount of stones in their reactor?

 

What are your thoughts?

Ive always wondered about this too. But I'm running the recommended amount with 3 hours on/off.

 

 

What are people's thoughts about switching from Microbacter7 as a bacterial additive to Zeobak? I'm just about out of MB7 and am thinking of switching over to Zeobak for a vinegar-driven carbon dosing regimen. MB7 has been working well for me but I'm always thinking Zeobak may be more effective.

I have always used MB7 in the past when I cycle/cure dry rock with decent results, i think. With the current setup tho, I have used it with zeobak while the tank/cabinet was being built, and I had a minor bacterial bloom. Im not saying it was because of MB7 but it did. If it was me, and if its working, don't change it. If i wasn't doing zeovit, id use BP with Probidio stuff.

 

Im pretty convinced that you need full blown zeovit set up to get all the KZ additives to be fully effective.

[NanoTopia]

You should be running your reactor 24/7 now. No need to run it 3on 3off unless you are switching from one method to ZEOvit and then only for about 2-3 weeks max. Stones should not be exposed to air for more than a couple minutes as well.

Ive always wondered about this too. But I'm running the recommended amount with 3 hours on/off.

[exactlyobp]

You should be running your reactor 24/7 now. No need to run it 3on 3off unless you are switching from one method to ZEOvit and then only for about 2-3 weeks max. Stones should not be exposed to air for more than a couple minutes as well.

Oh really. Hmm. I thought doing 3on 3off helps lowing the nutrients. What about when you change out the zeolites? Still 24/7? (the zeolite stones are never exposed to air.)

[NanoTopia]

Oh really. Hmm. I thought doing 3on 3off helps lowing the nutrients. What about when you change out the zeolites? Still 24/7? (the zeolite stones are never exposed to air.)

You only run 3 on/off when you are transitioning from one method, like say bio-pellets or GFO, to the ZEOvit stones. The 3 on/off is actually less effective at removing nutrients, this is why it is more gentle for the transition. Otherwise, you run the reactor 24/7, new cycle, stone change, Bar mitzvah, all 24/7 And yes, stones should not be exposed to air for more than 5 minutes, preferably never.

 

This is a very confusing topic in the ZEOvit Guide, many people misinterpret the writing. Steady flow will reduce nutrients as they are intended to do so using the method and proper amounts of stones, FLOW, ZEOstart3, and bacteria. There was a thread on the ZEOvit forum about it a while back, you may like to look for it there.

[NanoTopia]

What are people's thoughts about switching from Microbacter7 as a bacterial additive to Zeobak? I'm just about out of MB7 and am thinking of switching over to Zeobak for a vinegar-driven carbon dosing regimen. MB7 has been working well for me but I'm always thinking Zeobak may be more effective.

I don't see the point really, I would guess they are the same strains of bacteria only ZEOvit concentrates them. I don't like the idea that the MB7 does not need refrigeration, sounds suspect to me. I have used the product and think it is basically okay, but if you are running the ZEOvit method in full, I would just use the ZEObak. I guess (again) that ZEObak contains more nitrifying bacteria than denitrifying ones. It would make sense since the stones are specific to attracting the ammonia molecule through absorption. Zeovit does however, use 3 different zeolites in their mix, each with a specific pore size suited for the task at hand, there are over 40 in existence. This is why not just any zeolite is effective for this specific application.

[Walker]

I don't see the point really, I would guess they are the same strains of bacteria only ZEOvit concentrates them. I don't like the idea that the MB7 does not need refrigeration, sounds suspect to me. I have used the product and think it is basically okay, but if you are running the ZEOvit method in full, I would just use the ZEObak. I guess (again) that ZEObak contains more nitrifying bacteria than denitrifying ones. It would make sense since the stones are specific to attracting the ammonia molecule through absorption. Zeovit does however, use 3 different zeolites in their mix, each with a specific pore size suited for the task at hand, there are over 40 in existence. This is why not just any zeolite is effective for this specific application.

I'll keep going with MB7 then, as the procedure I'm doing is working well so far. I am actually trying to figure out what products (and how much) to increase dosage on, as it seems my corals are starting to become too pale again. I've essentially doubled my AAHC dosage for two weeks but no net effect yet.

[farkwar]

From what I have been told, though, chemipure and purigen do not play well with zeovit

Thats nondescript.

 

I am pretty sure that corals take large molecules across their external cell membranes. Amino acids for example, even as large as algae cells.

 

Im also sure that they move phosphate, or other phosphorus molecules, across their membranes as well. Phosphorus being needed for cell membrane production, as well as cell energy, and membrane pumps.

 

So introducing chemical phosphate adsorbers to an already low phosphorus system can push it below life sustaining levels.

 

Chemipure is just GAC, im referring to phosphate removers such as purigen, GFO, and phosban.

 

 

I have noticed transferring of zooxanthelae from corals to other corals, the green fluorescent variety notably visible in corals previously without fluorescence.

[farkwar]

I'll keep going with MB7 then, as the procedure I'm doing is working well so far. I am actually trying to figure out what products (and how much) to increase dosage on, as it seems my corals are starting to become too pale again. I've essentially doubled my AAHC dosage for two weeks but no net effect yet.

Would amino acids affect coloration, in any large regard?

 

Amino acids will mostly be used for soft coral tissue growth.

 

In terms of colors, there is the color of the coral tissues and the coloration of the zooxanthelae. I dont know if algae are able to use amino acids directly for anything, needs research. Cmiiw, coloration is going to be affected by levels of potassium, iodine, strontium, and iron, and trace elements.

[AJ_Tsin]

I haven't had the need to dose any amino acids yet, just beginning to supplement Xtra and CV with decent results.

 

I currently haven't ordered any K-Z aminos or coral supplements.

 

Of AAHC, AA LPS, Coral Booster, or any of the other enhancers what is everyone using? How many of you are dosing Acropower instead of the K-Z aminos if any?

[evo_2679]

I just picked up a Zeovit Nano Pack. Just wondering if anybody could offer some dosing advise for the additives ?

 

Here is a little background have a total volume size about 35 gallons (DT 26 gallons and sump about 8-10 gallons). I have been dosing MB 7 about 4 weeks (for 2 weeks straight I dosed - 5 ml daily until maintenance dose) now I am only adding 5ml every Sunday after my WC for the maintenance dose. And 2 weeks ago I added 2 ml of vinegar every day to the tank, this week I bumped it up to 4 ml. I plan on adding 2 ml of vinegar every week until I hit zero on my NO3 and PO4 then cut the dose in half for the daily maintenance dose.

 

Parameters our :

PH - 8.11 per Apex

Alk - 7.7

CA - 450

MG - 1230

 

I did see this schedule on here from (cchsoracle) - will this work once my system hits ULNS (don’t plan on dosing until my tank hits ULN) ? Or should I adjust the dose(s) ?

 

Monday:
* 1 drop Coral Vitalizer
Tuesday:
* 1 drop Sponge Power
Wednesday:
* 6 drops (0.3ml) Xtra
Thursday:
* 6 drops (0.3ml) AA LPS
Friday:
* 1 drop Sponge Power
Saturday:
* 6 drops (0.3ml) Xtra
Sunday:
* Water Change
* 6 drops (0.3ml) AA LPS
* 5ml of MB 7

[NanoTopia]

I just picked up a Zeovit Nano Pack. Just wondering if anybody could offer some dosing advise for the additives ?

 

Here is a little background have a total volume size about 35 gallons (DT 26 gallons and sump about 8-10 gallons). I have been dosing MB 7 about 4 weeks (for 2 weeks straight I dosed - 5 ml daily until maintenance dose) now I am only adding 5ml every Sunday after my WC for the maintenance dose. And 2 weeks ago I added 2 ml of vinegar every day to the tank, this week I bumped it up to 4 ml. I plan on adding 2 ml of vinegar every week until I hit zero on my NO3 and PO4 then cut the dose in half for the daily maintenance dose.

 

Parameters our :

PH - 8.11 per Apex

Alk - 7.7

CA - 450

MG - 1230

 

I did see this schedule on here from (cchsoracle) - will this work once my system hits ULNS (don’t plan on dosing until my tank hits ULN) ? Or should I adjust the dose(s) ?

 

Monday:

* 1 drop Coral Vitalizer

Tuesday:

* 1 drop Sponge Power

Wednesday:

* 6 drops (0.3ml) Xtra

Thursday:

* 6 drops (0.3ml) AA LPS

Friday:

* 1 drop Sponge Power

Saturday:

* 6 drops (0.3ml) Xtra

Sunday:

* Water Change

* 6 drops (0.3ml) AA LPS

* 5ml of MB 7

My suggestion:

 

Monday:

2 drops CV

 

Tuesday:

2 drops SP

0.25mL AALPS

 

Wednesday:

1mL Xtra (regular)

2.5mL MB7

 

Thursday:

2 drops SP

2 drops CV

 

Friday:

Nothing

 

Saturday:

2 drops SP

0.25mL AALPS

 

Sunday:

1mL Xtra (regular)

Water Change

2.5ml MB 7

 

Keep CV refrigerated after initial opening.