aviator300 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I have been battling low PH ever since I set up my 7gal "Micro-Reef" tank about 3 months ago. I have posted for help several times on "Water Chemistry" and have gotten lots of good replies. My PH is now 7.50 at 3pm when it should be at it's highest on a good calibrated monitor and corroborated by my LFS. Some say "don't worry, no big deal while others have helped but here's the real deal bottom line. Ive got good light good water chemistry (other than PH), water change 2 at least twice a week, and getting a little frustrated. I've read posts from others saying when their PH dropped (but not this low) coral growth was stunted and mine is also. Im doing all the right stuff but cant get the PH up. The cause (in my case) is environmental co2 which I cannot change. (too hot in AZ to leave windows open). The only real option that makes sense, is too use a co2 absorbing media in a Phos-ban reactor and plug it into a protein skimmer. BIG PROBLEM because with the small tank, I have no protein skimmer. Im just frustrated and need some real help.. Link to comment
ElmoC Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Don't worry about pH. That reading is fine. Your pH will change throughout the day. Link to comment
GTi Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I have been battling low PH ever since I set up my 7gal "Micro-Reef" tank about 3 months ago. I have posted for help several times on "Water Chemistry" and have gotten lots of good replies. My PH is now 7.50 at 3pm when it should be at it's highest on a good calibrated monitor and corroborated by my LFS. Some say "don't worry, no big deal while others have helped but here's the real deal bottom line. Ive got good light good water chemistry (other than PH), water change 2 at least twice a week, and getting a little frustrated. I've read posts from others saying when their PH dropped (but not this low) coral growth was stunted and mine is also. Im doing all the right stuff but cant get the PH up. The cause (in my case) is environmental co2 which I cannot change. (too hot in AZ to leave windows open). The only real option that makes sense, is too use a co2 absorbing media in a Phos-ban reactor and plug it into a protein skimmer. BIG PROBLEM because with the small tank, I have no protein skimmer. Im just frustrated and need some real help.. I had a similar but less dramatic problem with CO2. I overcame it by running a small airline outside and hooking that to my skimmer air intake so the skimmer is pulling in outside air in to the tank. As you don't have a skimmer, perhaps you can try something similar with an air pump? What if you housed the air pump in an airtight container with the intake to the container coming from outside? You'd have to check the pump didn't overheat operating in a confined space. Link to comment
matt1977 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Doe your PH go below 7.5? Or its the lowest it goes? 7.5 is not too bad as long its consistent. My suggestion is too not worry about too much - you may do more harm than good trying to adjust it. Huge PH swings are more deadly. Are you testing Alk, Ca and Co2 as well? I add a PH buffer to my WC every week and that keeps my PH on nuvo 16 around 8. Link to comment
Mstefa1 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Are your other parms in check? Alk, Ca, Mg? Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 I don't mean to give offense to ElmoC or anyone but your reply of "don't worry about the PH, that reading is fine" is very similar to many replies I received to my previous post. However, all replies like yours came from people who posted their own PH's at around 8.3 like yours. I never once got a reply that said something like " Don't worry about the PH because mine is also that low and the corals and other livestock are loving it" . In response to Gti, I did aeration testing to confirm the high co2 levels in my apt and then did exactly what you suggested. I ran a line outside and used an air pump and stone to aerate the tank and within 2 days my PH leveled out at 8.;03 but the salt spray from the bubbles created an unacceptable mess whether I had the airstone in the main tank or the AC70 fuge mod. I think a protein skimmer would work well as you suggested but my tank's pretty small. 15.5 inch long, 9.5 wide and 11 deep. I know there are small skimmers so I just might have to bite the bullet and give up a lot of in tank space for a nano skimmer. Any ideas at all are greatly appreciated.. AVIATOR300 Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Per request for info, my parameters are as follows. Alk 11 Ca 440 Mg 1420 Spgr 1.025 Nitrate 7.5 P04 0 Temp 78.4 PH has been ranging from around 7.48 at night and a high of 7.62 in the afternoon. My problem is environmental co2 as confirmed by extensive aeration testing. Inside, outside, with bubblers on and off. Testing done using 250ml bottles of tank water and also done in the main tank itself. Link to comment
biocubedatx Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 This is a random late night idea, bare with me. Take a pill bottle with no cap and drill a small hole in the bottom to stick an airline 90 degree in it. Put it upside down in the modded aqua clear. Put the air stone inside the pill bottle and inject outside air. The bottle should contain the spray and the 90 will put anything right back into the tank.(attach a bit of air hose if its squirting out and making a mess so you can aim it.) Link to comment
Partially Submerged Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 What other things have you tried? Increasing carbonate hardness? More frequent water changes? Link to comment
ElmoC Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I don't mean to give offense to ElmoC or anyone but your reply of "don't worry about the PH, that reading is fine" is very similar to many replies I received to my previous post. However, all replies like yours came from people who posted their own PH's at around 8.3 like yours. I never once got a reply that said something like " Don't worry about the PH because mine is also that low and the corals and other livestock are loving it" . When I first started out, my pH was always lower than 8. Right around what you are getting. In fact looking at the past 24 hours, it was as low as 7.6 at one point. I live in a drafty apartment so don't have the issue of the sealed environment. I would be more concerned about the alkalinity level than the pH. Don't chase the pH. It is what it is. Oh. And my livestock and corals were loving it back then too. Link to comment
frankdontsurf Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 My Alk is nuts because of my kalk use but my pH is at 8.2 24/7 and in a week Ive seen an improvement. Link to comment
Mike Savage Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Is there a glass top you can remove from the top of the tank for better air exchange? Link to comment
GTi Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I don't mean to give offense to ElmoC or anyone but your reply of "don't worry about the PH, that reading is fine" is very similar to many replies I received to my previous post. However, all replies like yours came from people who posted their own PH's at around 8.3 like yours. I never once got a reply that said something like " Don't worry about the PH because mine is also that low and the corals and other livestock are loving it" . In response to Gti, I did aeration testing to confirm the high co2 levels in my apt and then did exactly what you suggested. I ran a line outside and used an air pump and stone to aerate the tank and within 2 days my PH leveled out at 8.;03 but the salt spray from the bubbles created an unacceptable mess whether I had the airstone in the main tank or the AC70 fuge mod. I think a protein skimmer would work well as you suggested but my tank's pretty small. 15.5 inch long, 9.5 wide and 11 deep. I know there are small skimmers so I just might have to bite the bullet and give up a lot of in tank space for a nano skimmer. Any ideas at all are greatly appreciated.. AVIATOR300 How about trying a few different airstones and pump capacities to fine tune the volume and size of bubbles. EG a lower flow pump with a limewood diffuser will give smaller bubbles and may (if you're lucky) cause less salt creep? Of try to make a shield as a previous poster suggested so the bubbles don't splash saltwater everywhere. Some circulation pumps have an airline connection so they will pull in air but then you'll probably get air bubbles blowing all over the tank. Link to comment
Bobyboy Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 IMO chasing the "perfect" PH will drive you insane and possibly inadvertent negatively affect your tank, if everything is happy then leave it be. The only thing I've found to stabilize PH is tuning a fuge with macro algae, have it lit up at night with a light and off during the day. Also have you checked the PH of your RODI water? Link to comment
MyLiquidBlue29BC Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 How about trying a few different airstones and pump capacities to fine tune the volume and size of bubbles. EG a lower flow pump with a limewood diffuser will give smaller bubbles and may (if you're lucky) cause less salt creep? Of try to make a shield as a previous poster suggested so the bubbles don't splash saltwater everywhere. Some circulation pumps have an airline connection so they will pull in air but then you'll probably get air bubbles blowing all over the tank. Maybe try a adding a valve to the tube that goes to the air stone if you don't want to try different pumps. Def. try different types of air stones. Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 I finally decided to pull the trigger and do something that someone suggested and I feel it will do the job without Kalk or any other chemicals and also should help a stubborn Nitrate issue and the tank in general. I measured and looked and measured again and ordered an "Aquatic Life" nano protein skimmer. Since I know my PH issue is related to in house Co2 levels, I will hook it's air intake to outside air. While I was in the shopping mood, I also ordered a Tunze "Osmolator" ATO to keep the water level consistent for the skimmer. I will get back to you'all when I see if this whole upgrade in beneficial to my reef. Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 I use 2 kinds of water. distilled PH = 6.4 ro/di PH = 6.7 After i mix a new batch of salt water using RS Coral Pro, the PH is 8.1 but drops to around 7.5 within a day or two. Link to comment
frankdontsurf Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I use 2 kinds of water. distilled PH = 6.4 ro/di PH = 6.7 After i mix a new batch of salt water using RS Coral Pro, the PH is 8.1 but drops to around 7.5 within a day or two. I'd try pH Up the mixing water a couple of hours before adding the salt. Have you done that? Link to comment
Mstefa1 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I'd try pH Up the mixing water a couple of hours before adding the salt. Have you done that? I don't think putting chemicals in to the freshwater is the solution. Link to comment
frankdontsurf Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I don't think putting chemicals in to the freshwater is the solution. I'm a noob but two well known shops have told me about this practice (local to me but well known online). Aside from that its common practice in aquaponics/hydroponics. I'm going to pH up my top off water to see if this helps my tank since I'm having the same issue. I agree with you, it doesn't address the problem and if it works its only a bandaid. Link to comment
aviator300 Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 I really thank everyone for their help and im absolutely sure its the high co2 in my small apt with 3 people and a cat living here and I dont want to treat an environmental issue with additives. I opened a window yesterday all day and the PH went from 7.64 to 7.91 in about 13 hrs. My protein skimmer comes tomorrow and i'll hook it up to outside air and report back in a couple days to let you know how it works..... Link to comment
frankdontsurf Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I really thank everyone for their help and im absolutely sure its the high co2 in my small apt with 3 people and a cat living here and I dont want to treat an environmental issue with additives. I opened a window yesterday all day and the PH went from 7.64 to 7.91 in about 13 hrs. My protein skimmer comes tomorrow and i'll hook it up to outside air and report back in a couple days to let you know how it works..... Pretty sure you'll be fine once you get that outside air feed. You could also put an inline Co2 scrubber where the scrubber sits between the outside air like and the skimmer. You are golden. Link to comment
Mstefa1 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'm a noob but two well known shops have told me about this practice (local to me but well known online). Aside from that its common practice in aquaponics/hydroponics. I'm going to pH up my top off water to see if this helps my tank since I'm having the same issue. I agree with you, it doesn't address the problem and if it works its only a bandaid. The OP's ph of his water wasn't far off from neutral, no additive required. Also he has identified that his ph issue is a result of increased C02. Do you know how using PH UP impacts your alkalinity? Most experts tell you not to chase ph. Link to comment
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