Dry Rock Acid Bath?

[sharksfan94]

Hello all..

 

I am asking this question because I have heard rather conflicting reports on how to do this.. I know the general idea. 10:1 ratio of water to acid, add the acid after the water, add baking soda to neutralize the acid, rinse with either rodi water or salt water. So I have the general gist down..

 

But my questions arise because I am planning on taking out a portion of my live rock (covered with hair algae, bubble algae etc) and replace it with the dry rock. And this is where I have heard different opinions on what to do.

 

So should I do what I listed above and then let it dry out then add it to my tank? or should I do the acid bath, soak it in sw/rodi water for a few days and then add it? I have a 25g tank with nearly 35lbs of sand and 25lbs of rock in it..so I should be good to replace about 10lbs of the rock without risking any type of cycle.

 

I have heard a few people say that all I need to do is do the acid bath, rinse it of with a hose and then with salt water and then I would be able to add it directly to the tank..

 

 

Any help/links to articles would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

[tran]

if the dry rocks that you are going to put in the tank are new & that have never been used before then it should be fine without doing any treatment or cure. just rinse them before you use.

 

BUT if the rocks were dead rocks (used to be live), then do this

bleach them over night

rinse out with water, let them dry for a day or two

let them sit submerse in the water for a day or two again

take them out and let them sit under the sun for a couple of days

 

when I did it on my first tank upgrade, I did use baking soda to neutralize the acid. But on my last two upgrade, I did not bother with the baking soda and it works the same. just make sure you dry them good

 

good luck

[sharksfan94]

Thank you for the info!!

 

 

if the dry rocks that you are going to put in the tank are new & that have never been used before then it should be fine without doing any treatment or cure. just rinse them before you use.

 

BUT if the rocks were dead rocks (used to be live), then do this

bleach them over night

rinse out with water, let them dry for a day or two

let them sit submerse in the water for a day or two again

take them out and let them sit under the sun for a couple of days

 

when I did it on my first tank upgrade, I did use baking soda to neutralize the acid. But on my last two upgrade, I did not bother with the baking soda and it works the same. just make sure you dry them good

 

good luck

[Nanofreak79]

The only rock I'd acid wash besides old used rock, is the pukani rock. That stuff is full of dead crap and will cause a major algae issue. I know from both not doing it and doing it after learning my lesson. Never add water to acid, but acid to water. Have plenty of baking soda to neutalize the acid when finished. Use eye and hand protection, derp.

[elmatth1]

Are you pulling the live rock only because of the algae? If so, I would just do a hydrogen peroxide dip, rinse with salt water from a water change, and put them back in and watch the algae melt over the next few days. Then work on correcting the reasons you were getting the algae in the first place.

 

While the acid bath works well to remove the outer layers of rock, which can help eliminate phosphates that have absorbed into the rock, it is much more labor intensive and time consuming than the hydrogen peroxide method if all you are looking for is eliminating the algae on the rock.

 

Of course, if you are doing it for other reasons, it does work well and is safe as long as you neutralize the acid with baking soda and rinse the rock well.

[sharksfan94]

Are you pulling the live rock only because of the algae? If so, I would just do a hydrogen peroxide dip, rinse with salt water from a water change, and put them back in and watch the algae melt over the next few days. Then work on correcting the reasons you were getting the algae in the first place. While the acid bath works well to remove the outer layers of rock, which can help eliminate phosphates that have absorbed into the rock, it is much more labor intensive and time consuming than the hydrogen peroxide method if all you are looking for is eliminating the algae on the rock. Of course, if you are doing it for other reasons, it does work well and is safe as long as you neutralize the acid with baking soda and rinse the rock well.

I am pulling the rock for multiple reasons, the algae is just one of them. I also want more than 5 chunks of rock to work with. Mkay, I will probably move forward with the acid bath, although after talking with LFS guy he said since its marco rock to soak in in SW for a few days then add it.. I shall see what I want to do when I finally get the rock... I'm leaning towards the SW soak then an acid bath is needed.

 

 

 

The only rock I'd acid wash besides old used rock, is the pukani rock. That stuff is full of dead crap and will cause a major algae issue. I know from both not doing it and doing it after learning my lesson. Never add water to acid, but acid to water. Have plenty of baking soda to neutalize the acid when finished. Use eye and hand protection, derp.

Hm. Thank you for the input! I will keep that info in mind when I treat the rock with acid if I decide to.

[IMSR80]

What acid to use? Does kitchen vinegar help?

[GTi]

I tried vinegar on my live rock when switching tanks and wanting a fresh start. It does a little and combined with pressure washing will remove a lot of algae etc. the rock isn't sparkly white. I preferred the idea if vinegar as it was less likely to be a problem if a little was left in the rock but with hindsight, it isn't as effective as the muriatic acid.

 

Next time I would use the stronger stuff but be sure to rinse very well!

[farkwar]

Watch "Cauldron" on YouTube

Cauldron:

 

 

Thats the first muriatic acid bath. Check all that organics, the brown crap in the foam.

One gallon added to the tub filled mostly with water.

 

Muriatic is like $11 for two gallons.

Vinegar is like $4 for two gallons.

 

Dissolved it down to the white, it was all 50 lbs primo cherry calcarous live rock I let die, like a fool. Its about 30 lbs now. Very fragile and full of holes. Coral skeleton live rock, not like the boulder garbage rocks everyone sells now.

 

Use respirator, goggles and gloves with the muriatic.

[brandon429]

acid etching to remove phosphate is one of the most pointless fads in reefing.

 

 

the threads never consider the type of tank that clean rock is going back into. if you have a secret plan to literally guarantee your water column is free of phosphate using a highly technical approach then Im game, but its never like that.

 

its etch them, put them in a normal tank with a skimmer and some phosphate water. the cleaned rock soaks it up like a sponge.

unless there are specific plans for zero sum phosphate management, you'll just re matrix it back into the rock as you feed each day. waste of time unless you have very unique scenarios that are not listed here. as a response to algae, not helpful. it'll zap back up in 6 mos you'll be at square one. In 12 yrs of reefing Ive never come across or seen po4 loaded rock that wasn't usable right when I got home, but then again I only buy cured lr.

 

I realize specialty rocks like marco rocks leak so much po4 we have to try something.

 

etching organic laden rock to remove deposits that are beyond normal from dead lr would make sense, you would be putting something abbormal into a normal tank. but all of our rocks, every tank on this site has phosphates incorporated into the rock...every tank. etching is overrated, and harmless to do if you still want to. our reefs are so flexible you can do crazy stuff, recycle them, and whats destined always returns despite our best unnatural ideas.

 

i aint even trying to pass off peroxide as some magic fix, expect to repeat it if used. repeating the acid bath is equally necessary, and since its a total start over I wouldnt use the method unless its a one off action for the purposes of removing organics

[farkwar]

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[seabass]

In my experience, acid baths do not stop rock from leaching phosphate. The phosphate does not just sit on the outer surface unless it is bound in the organic matter sitting on the surface. Acid baths can be used to strip the outer layers of the rock to clean it; however I found that a 10:1 ratio dissolved too much rock for my tastes (a 20:1 ratio is not only less expensive, but cleaned the rock while keeping it more intact).

 

Remember that either acid or ammonia, when mixed with bleach, creates very harmful fumes (which can kill you).

[BattleAthletics]

Acid Washing Dry/Live/Dead Rock

 

Im going to try and keep this short, not too many people in this industry are willing to use Hydrochloric Acid in their tank builds. Now I should first mention that HCL is not something you should take lightly, you should only handle chemicals that you are familiar with. I work in the chemical industry where I handle Hydrochloric Acid aka HCL(100% Strength), Hydrofluoric Acid aka HF(100% Strength) and many acidic materials. I am fortunate to have extensive training in handling materials of this strength and the knowledge to treat in case of an exposure. The muriatic acid I used was a 34% strength and the brand of the bottle was SMART brand. I had approximately 80#'s of rock initially. The rule of thumb that ive noticed many people that have done was use a 10:1 ratio of water to HCL(Muriatic Acid). Many people use 14% HCL, so be careful what you purchase, in the end the HCL might not be strong enough. I'll remind you that the proper PPE(Personal Protective Equipment) is essential in working with chemicals such as HCL. Here is a list of what I used in the acid washing process.

 

 

PPE of Choice:

 

• Face Shield w/ respirator
• Ansell ANSI Cerified Chemical Gloves
• Chemical Apron or Splash Suit
• A base of choice, baking soda or the equivalent in order to neutralize the acid

Now you dont have to get all fancy like I did, but I was able to man handle the rock inside the tub. Before you start the process always make sure you have no leaks in your gloves and apron/suit.

 

 

List of materials:

• Muriatic Acid
• PPE
• A big enough tote to hold your rock
• Water
• Enough baking soda (Depending on the amount you are to be washing)
• Stopwatch
• pH paper and a pH meter

Now I had this dead rock for a couple of months now, it was live when I got it from a local reefer(originally the rock was in the bay), in order to prevent any hitch hikers and unwanted pest algea I decided to try out what vinegar would do to this dead rock. It essentially cleaned it to a certain degree, but nothing compared to what HCL did to it.

 

I donned the proper PPE needed for this job, I had a tote full of rock, filled it up with water and prepared everything I needed in order to ensure a smooth wash. I should mention that the pH of HCL is less that -1.0, so it will cause blisters, severe burns, tissue loss is evident and the biggest one of all is that it is EXTREMELY CORROSIVE. It also has a certain pungent smell to it. I guess im a little used to the smell of HCL.

 

 

Acid washing:

• Fill up tote with rocks to wash
• Add water to the tote just about 1in. above the rock line in the tote(Depending how much water you have)
• Add Muriatic acid SLOWLY(Depending how much water to acid ratio 10:1)
• Wait 20-35 minutes, or until bubbling has died down
• Add baking soda
• Test pH of the water solution
• Ensure that it is around a 7
• Proceed to dump neutralized water to the drain or ditch or gutter etc etc.
• Take rock out of tote and rinse with garden hose, a strong pressurized nozzle is needed for this step as it ensures no rubble or granuals are left behind.
• Wash down the tote very well
• Let the rocks dry for 1-2 days(Sooner or later if you wish)
• Mission completed

During acid wash, notice the brown organics dissolving

Before

 

After

 

Hope this helps anyone wanting to learn more on how to do an acid wash.

Mine hadn't shown any signs of phosphate leaching out yet.

[seabass]

Not all rocks leach phosphate. But if they do, even aggressive acid washing will not stop it. Like I stated, it can get rid of the organic material (and the phosphate that the organics contain), but it will not draw the phosphate out from the remaining rock.

 

If it's leaching phosphate, you should be able to detect it with a low range phosphate kit after only a few days of it being soaked in water.

• test the water prior to adding the rock
• add the rock
• wait a few days
• retest the water for phosphate

If it's leaching phosphate, you'll have to decide if you wish to just replace the rock, treat it prior to use, or use it as is and handle the extra phosphate with something like a GFO reactor. Rocks can continue to leach phosphate for many months. In order to treat it prior to use, you have to use a method to repeatedly or continually reduce the level in the water, so it keeps leaching from the rock (when it's leaching phosphate, it's being removed from the rocks).

[farkwar]

Agree Seabass.

 

All that dead organic stuff(what most of that foam is) has more than phosphates.

 

It has just about all the chemicals for feeding algae, not just the one.