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Kalkwasser Auto Top Off


frankdontsurf

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frankdontsurf

I have a 10 gallon, my pH stays super low 7.6-7.8 this has always been my pH in the 9 months it's been up. My Ca varies, I use NSW and that's never over 380 but usually 340.

 

I was going to use this tutorial:

 

My fear is that my ATO container is 3 liters, I don't really have a set regimen on refilling it. Meaning, somedays my ATO runs more than the previous days. I'm not sure if it depends on my house AC, lights, weather.. I know I need to up my Ca and currently I do that with Brightwell Calcion - that does nothing for my Kh or pH.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Questions? Warnings? Anything.. I feel like it's my first time driving without my mom... 16 years ago.

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Nano sapiens

There are a few different ways to auto-dose Kalkwasser. You'll need to settle on a method that is super reliable and very consistent so that the tank doesn't experience wide swings in Cal and Alk.

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My first thought is to switch salt. I believe that the goal of dosing is to maintain the levels of your mixed saltwater (not to elevate the levels higher). If the levels of your saltwater are lower than you wish, I'd switch salt mixes. Then if consumption lowers these values, you can dose to get them back up to the original level. Kalk isn't a bad way to replenish levels when consumption rates are still fairly light.

 

Kalk is a decent way to raise the pH of your water; however, I wonder if there is a reason it's low. Check the alkalinity of your tank and make sure that it isn't low. Also check the pH of the new saltwater before you do a water change. Low pH can be caused by high CO2 in the room where your tank is. Opening a window is sometimes enough to solve this problem. Also, some salt mixes will be higher in alkalinity and pH than others (switching salt mixes might be part of the solution).

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frankdontsurf

My first thought is to switch salt. I believe that the goal of dosing is to maintain the levels of your mixed saltwater (not to elevate the levels higher). If the levels of your saltwater are lower than you wish, I'd switch salt mixes. Then if consumption lowers these values, you can dose to get them back up to the original level. Kalk isn't a bad way to replenish levels when consumption rates are still fairly light.

 

Kalk is a decent way to raise the pH of your water; however, I wonder if there is a reason it's low. Check the alkalinity of your tank and make sure that it isn't low. Also check the pH of the new saltwater before you do a water change. Low pH can be caused by high CO2 in the room where your tank is. Opening a window is sometimes enough to solve this problem. Also, some salt mixes will be higher in alkalinity and pH than others (switching salt mixes might be part of the solution).

My canopy is pretty much sealed on all sides except the back. When I remove it pH doesn't go up, because there are no lights. To fix this I added an 80mm fan to exhaust the hood. It pulls air from all sides (in through and out of the hood). I just did this so I'm not really sure how much its affected pH. All of my LFS have NSW, so I don't mix my own salt. Figured it was easier to buy $3 of sea water and be done. I do water changes every 7th-10th day. I thought about mixing some reef specific salt but figured my pH instability would still persist.

 

I'll update you on my params tomorrow my test kit has been stuck in transit a week. All I have on hand is pH.

 

What are you measuring pH with?

I've used a Hanna pen but I'm using API high end pH

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My canopy is pretty much sealed on all sides except the back. When I remove it pH doesn't go up, because there are no lights. To fix this I added an 80mm fan to exhaust the hood. It pulls air from all sides (in through and out of the hood).

Yeah, it could be just CO2 in the water; but if the tank room is high in CO2, then it won't matter how much gas exchange it gets. Try aerating a bucket of water out doors and see what the pH reads.

 

All of my LFS have NSW, so I don't mix my own salt. Figured it was easier to buy $3 of sea water and be done. I do water changes every 7th-10th day. I thought about mixing some reef specific salt but figured my pH instability would still persist.

I get all my salt online. Amazon Prime has free shipping on a few different brands, and some online reef stores offer free shipping on orders over a set amount. I'm not saying this is definitely your problem; but If you are having issues, $3 and done isn't worth it.
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I would agree that it could be the CO2 in your house. I had the same problem where my ph would stay stable at 7.7-7.8 but I could never break the 8.0 level without adding a ph buffer type of thing. Even with this method I would spike at 8.10 and then slowly go back down to 7.7, which freaked me out due to the wide spikes. Finally I read some posts about using CO2 scrubber pellets from BRS and putting it in a simple jug from WM. Basically you just punch a whole at the bottom of the jug, squeeze airline tubing in it and attach the other end to your air intake tube of your skimmer (I have a Bubble Magus 3.5, so I need to order a UV adapter for my skimmer). Then fill the jug up to the neck and in about a day or less, your levels will start to stabilize and increase up to the 8.+ level. I dose about 4tbspn a gallon in a 10gallon reservoir and use this scrubber technique and my levels stay at a constant 8.15 everyday, all day with the occasional 8.19 when the Kalk doses into the sump. I swear by the CO2 scrubber method now.

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frankdontsurf

Yeah, it could be just CO2 in the water; but if the tank room is high in CO2, then it won't matter how much gas exchange it gets. Try aerating a bucket of water out doors and see what the pH reads.

 

I get all my salt online. Amazon Prime has free shipping on a few different brands, and some online reef stores offer free shipping on orders over a set amount. I'm not saying this is definitely your problem; but If you are having issues, $3 and done isn't worth it.

You mean take a small container of tank water check the pH indoors and then leave it outside (how long?) and then test it again to compare?

 

I sometimes buy my NSW and don't do my WC till a few days later and the pH is at 8~ and its been in a closed bucket. Is that because nothing is living in the water? Well nothing major.

 

What salt do you recommend? Something for am SPS type tank since I have both LPS and SPS in my tank. I know it's a matter of personal trial and error along with preference but a little first hand experience from someone helps.

 

I would agree that it could be the CO2 in your house. I had the same problem where my ph would stay stable at 7.7-7.8 but I could never break the 8.0 level without adding a ph buffer type of thing. Even with this method I would spike at 8.10 and then slowly go back down to 7.7, which freaked me out due to the wide spikes. Finally I read some posts about using CO2 scrubber pellets from BRS and putting it in a simple jug from WM. Basically you just punch a whole at the bottom of the jug, squeeze airline tubing in it and attach the other end to your air intake tube of your skimmer (I have a Bubble Magus 3.5, so I need to order a UV adapter for my skimmer). Then fill the jug up to the neck and in about a day or less, your levels will start to stabilize and increase up to the 8.+ level. I dose about 4tbspn a gallon in a 10gallon reservoir and use this scrubber technique and my levels stay at a constant 8.15 everyday, all day with the occasional 8.19 when the Kalk doses into the sump. I swear by the CO2 scrubber method now.

Interesting and greatly appreciated. You might be onto something. If you're right I'm screwed. I have no space for a skimmer let alone a co2 scrubber.

 

Would aerating the water (like a freshwater tank) help?

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You mean take a small container of tank water check the pH indoors and then leave it outside (how long?) and then test it again to compare?

I'd actually plug in a spare powerhead to help aerate the water. An hour would be more than enough.

 

What salt do you recommend? Something for am SPS type tank since I have both LPS and SPS in my tank. I know it's a matter of personal trial and error along with preference but a little first hand experience from someone helps.

Red Sea Coral Pro is available from Bulk Reef Supply or Amazon (used to be free shipping with prime, but they stopped doing that on their large buckets).

 

Interesting and greatly appreciated. You might be onto something. If you're right I'm screwed. I have no space for a skimmer let alone a co2 scrubber.

Just opening a window in the room is often enough.

 

Would aerating the water (like a freshwater tank) help?

No, unless it's just CO2 in the tank (and not the room). Air stones will cause nasty salt creep. There are small internal skimmers (that can fit in a HOB filter) and small HOB skimmers that might be suitable.

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frankdontsurf, on 03 Apr 2014 - 13:49, said:snapback.png

Interesting and greatly appreciated. You might be onto something. If you're right I'm screwed. I have no space for a skimmer let alone a co2 scrubber.

Just opening a window in the room is often enough.

 

I would agree with SeaBass, opening a window would be good enough if you live in a temperate climate like S. Cali (I miss those days sometimes). You can also try possibly aiming a fan to blow air from outside into the house toward your tank. The "fresh air" might help out with the CO2 accumulation in your house. I unfortunately, live in San Antonio now and it would be insane to leave my windows open and let the hot humid air come in.

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frankdontsurf

API Reef Master & pH:

 

pH 7.8

Ca 440~ (I think it's higher but not by much, I fumbled the test it's been at 480 steady for days. Lost count between 20-24 drops)

KH 12

PO 0

NO 0

 

Since the day I started this thread I've been running my ATO with 3/4 of a tsp of Kalk in 3 liters of RO/DI. No changes to pH but Alk seems super stable. Calcium seems super stable as well. Tank takes about half a gallon every day so almost every other day refills. Yesterday I bumped the dosage to 1 heaping tsp in 3 liters of RO/DI. About 1 liter went in between last night and now, I haven't checked the pH again i'm waiting for all the lights to come on.

 

What I've noticed.. My spongode is growing a finger and polyps stay out all day but not super extended - from what I've read this is a happy coral. My lepastrea which almost died totally a few months back is already glowing again, and it's regrown to the point where you can see it swell for feedings and light changes - this guy was literally so bad I thought it was just coral skeleton but I couldn't bring myself to toss it. Sucks because I had a bad ass hammer my sister gave me when her tank makes tore all the flesh off looked so bad I thought it was a goner but it would have probably come back eventually. My brain is super bumpy and sticky and wants to mold to the rock it's on. So from the looks of it everyone is much more pleased than they were a week ago. I almost feel like i've been keeping my tank alive as opposed to this week where everyone seems to be thriving. Oh and pH no longer drops to 6.8-7 over night. Stays at a stable 7.8 all day, everyday so far.

 

I've had no change in the water I set out to pH test. Lol, 7.4 inside or outside. I know it's not my tests because I've had those numbers using a Hanna, my sisters Salifert, and going to random LFS's over the last few months. I feel if I can get that 8.1 stable my corals are going to blow up like the hulk! Womp.. Guess I'll keep playing with Kalk and hope for the best.

 

About the window thing, my doors are open very often. Between the kids and my smoking habit, and the AC set to 70F all day (when the fans kick on the easiest way to pull air in is through the front door if it's open).

 

The exhaust fan I have mounted in the hood is pulling air out of the top.. So the intake is passive. I might just mount a fan pushing air in and see if that changes anything.

 

Hydroponics was a long time hobby of mine, I understand the need to get the right numbers and keep them stable. I know chasing a number is a waste when you're going to be bouncing around all the time. In which case 7.8 24/7 is better than 7.4-8.1-7.4 up-down all day. How likely are my corals to thrive at such a low pH?

 

I'm still playing with the Kalk dosage, so maybe in a week or two I'll have it set where 8.1 is feasible as long as it doesn't throw the rest of the balance out of whack. I'm sure there is point where the Kalk will either not be effective unless I go over dose and that's just as bad if not worse.

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WOW. I just finished posting a very similar problem just before I read yours. "Aerating water to raise PH".

 

You might want to read it and reply. Your post and the replies you're getting helped me and maybe mine can help you. BTW, I invite anyone reading this post to also help with mine.

I hope im not doing what is referred to as "highjacking your thread" because my intention is just to help each other.

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pH is the last thing I worried. There are too many factors that could cause pH swing. Honestly, if you have a bunch of friends over for dinner, your pH will go crazy too. I am a big fan of Kalk top-off, but it has to be consistent, predictable and can't not be control by water level aka float switch.

 

You shouldn't be worry about your pH if you are keeping your ALK high 7s or 8s. Kalk along with top of is very dangerous if you don't use it properly, when the float switch(es) fail you really screwed if do not have a good fresh/salt water ratio. You can get away if you on a larger tank, but if you only have a 20-40g DT tank with a 5g top-off. Imagine your float switch(es) failed and dump all that top-off in your DT.

 

You can combine the timer and float switches on your top-off for security. I have my cheap auto-top-off running 7 mins every hour on a aqualifter. If float switches on my ato failed, worst case is the pump running only 7mins each hour, and the controller will shut down the outlet if pH reaches the danger level.

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frankdontsurf

pH is the last thing I worried. There are too many factors that could cause pH swing. Honestly, if you have a bunch of friends over for dinner, your pH will go crazy too. I am a big fan of Kalk top-off, but it has to be consistent, predictable and can't not be control by water level aka float switch.

 

You shouldn't be worry about your pH if you are keeping your ALK high 7s or 8s. Kalk along with top of is very dangerous if you don't use it properly, when the float switch(es) fail you really screwed if do not have a good fresh/salt water ratio. You can get away if you on a larger tank, but if you only have a 20-40g DT tank with a 5g top-off. Imagine your float switch(es) failed and dump all that top-off in your DT.

 

You can combine the timer and float switches on your top-off for security. I have my cheap auto-top-off running 7 mins every hour on a aqualifter. If float switches on my ato failed, worst case is the pump running only 7mins each hour, and the controller will shut down the outlet if pH reaches the danger level.

 

My Alk is super high, 12's..

 

I'm going to cut the dose back on the Kalk.

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Islandoftiki

My Alk is super high, 12's..

 

I'm going to cut the dose back on the Kalk.

 

Or stop dosing it altogether until your alk comes down a bit. What are your calc and mag levels?

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frankdontsurf

I'm going to borrow my sisters magnesium test later, all I have is a Reef Master kit and a High pH test from API.

 

1.025, 80F

 

pH 8.2

Ca 480

dKH 17

Po 0

No 0

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Islandoftiki

I'm going to borrow my sisters magnesium test later, all I have is a Reef Master kit and a High pH test from API.

 

1.025, 80F

 

pH 8.2

Ca 480

dKH 17

Po 0

No 0

 

Well, you certainly don't need to dose anything until your levels come down a bit. Much more and it'll be snowing in your tank, or your pumps will seize up from calcium precipitation.

 

That's assuming your tests are correct. I'd get a second opinion from a different set of tests.

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frankdontsurf

Mg is around 1300, red sea test. I do 50% WC every 7th-10th day (Monday or Tuesday) with natural sea water which comes in at 1350~.

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My Alk is super high, 12's..

 

I'm going to cut the dose back on the Kalk.

Where is coming from? You know your tank ALK consumption before you dose? I would look at the daily consumption and go from there.

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