bob115 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well I'm thinking about adding a clam to my Spec V. Its got mostly lps and zoas currently. Fauna includes 2 sexy shrimp, 1 dwarf blue hermit, 1 peppermint shrimp, and 2 snails. I have diy led fixture of 4 XT-E RBs, 2 XT-E CW, 2 XT-E NW, and 2 exotic TV; every color on uC dimming. Is that enough light for a clam (lol, when is 45W of led for a 5g tank not enough)? I can get it between 8in and 2in from the surface. As for feeding, I have some phyto and was going to pick up some oyster feast or reef chili soon anyway so I think I'll have that covered. And lastly the only lfs that has clams only has like 2" clams for ~$60, but I know clams under 3" have high mortality rates. I'd prefer not to have to order one because I'd like to A, see it in person first; B, not have to worry about shipping stress or it getting too cold (Wisconsin winters suck); and C, shipping costs. Should I go for the lfs stock or just order one? Link to comment
vlangel Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 So is your tank only 5 gallons? If so I don't think that's a big enough tank for even a crocea which grow slower. I think I read that clams should have 25 gallons to have a good prognosis. My blue crocea is under T5s so I'm not sure about the lighting. I also read that the mortality rate is high among clams that are less than 3". Mine was nearly 3" when I bought it a year ago but now its a strapping 4" at least. Link to comment
metrokat Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 How far are you from Live Aquaria in WI? http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=468 They're having an open house on March 1 Link to comment
HVani Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 How far are you from Live Aquaria in WI? http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=468 They're having an open house on March 1 OMG thanks for the reminder! I've always wanted to go to one of these Link to comment
metrokat Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 OMG thanks for the reminder! I've always wanted to go to one of these TAKE ME WITH YOU! Link to comment
bob115 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 So is your tank only 5 gallons? If so I don't think that's a big enough tank for even a crocea which grow slower. I think I read that clams should have 25 gallons to have a good prognosis. My blue crocea is under T5s so I'm not sure about the lighting. I also read that the mortality rate is high among clams that are less than 3". Mine was nearly 3" when I bought it a year ago but now its a strapping 4" at least. Well I figure I can keep it in there for a few years until it out grows the tank, at which point if I have a bigger tank I'll put it there, or I have a couple friends who have bigger tanks and would be more than happy to get a free clam (I know I would be ) How far are you from Live Aquaria in WI? http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=468 They're having an open house on March 1 That's a great idea! Even if I get a clam elsewhere that would be awesome to go to! Its still a 3 hour drive, but it'd totally be worth it. Link to comment
RayWhisperer Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I would guess you'd be fine, lighting wise. I'd be more worried about the small volume of water. While I have no doubt a clam could be housed, long term, in a 5 gallon. Are you good enough to keep up with it? Dosing is going to be nuts. Link to comment
bob115 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I would guess you'd be fine, lighting wise. I'd be more worried about the small volume of water. While I have no doubt a clam could be housed, long term, in a 5 gallon. Are you good enough to keep up with it? Dosing is going to be nuts. Not that its that much better, but because of various bits and pieces, the actual water volume is closer to 7 gallons. How much Ca and Alk would a clam suck up? I don't have a lot of sps or much anything else that'll suck it down, and I do weekly ~15% water changes. Link to comment
Cameron6796 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'd be more worried if the clam went sexual and fouled the tank Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think about clams all the time. Link to comment
metrokat Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'd be more worried if the clam went sexual and fouled the tank Clams only spawn when mature which would be at 4+ inches I think. Link to comment
bob115 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Well the LED lighting is taking significantly longer than I expected largely because I don't have a ton of time. So since I think things are light starved in my tank I've ordered up a 17W 50/50 to replace the actinic I have. Since Im probably going to get a clam this weekend, with the 50/50 and the stock spec V LEDs how far up should I place the clam? Link to comment
gulfsurfer101 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Nowhere, that lighting is insufficient for a crocea, and also as stated above the parameters will shift too rapidly if your not on top of it and the clam will most likely be doomed. Maybe get a par 38 instead of that 50/50 bulb till your able to get your fixture built that way you'll at least have propped lighting. Link to comment
GoingPostal Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Not enough light or space. Clams are touchy, they really need stability along with lots of light. I wouldn't risk it. Link to comment
bob115 Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Nowhere, that lighting is insufficient for a crocea, and also as stated above the parameters will shift too rapidly if your not on top of it and the clam will most likely be doomed. Maybe get a par 38 instead of that 50/50 bulb till your able to get your fixture built that way you'll at least have propped lighting. I see. Well if I just need to add some extra lighting, my DIY fixture can be adapted to run. I could very easily have it spitting out about 15W per cluster, and I could adapt two of the clusters to run in the interim. Approximately how much would I need of supplementation? According to this (if it can be trusted, I know its inaccurate because it assumes a single source, but it should give a decent ballpark) at 2in from a single cluster at a safe low output would put out about 850par; at about 6in it would be about 100 par; and at 12in it would be about 25par. I have room for the clam either right near the surface, about 6in down, or about 8in down. Link to comment
malawian Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I love playing this game. So it sounds like no one is willing to cosign your BS. So you have two choices: listen or dont. If you dont plan on listening I dont recommend wasting other people's time asking. Youve gotten 5 answers all saying 5g is too small. Its not an issue of space limitations its an issue of water parameters. In a larger tank, when a clam soaks up a ton of Ca and CO3 and the kH drops as a result (probably pH with it), next time you go to test or change water it will have moved a little bit, and then you can correct it. Over the same period of time your kH will have plummeted. Even if you correct constantly, your parameters are going to look like a saw-tooth. Clams (and a lot of other things too) need a lot of stability and on 5g thats not easy to do. sorry if Im abrasive but I dont like when people fish for answers. If you already made up your mind then whats the point taking up all these people's time getting advice you wont listen to? Link to comment
bob115 Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I love playing this game. So it sounds like no one is willing to cosign your BS. So you have two choices: listen or dont. If you dont plan on listening I dont recommend wasting other people's time asking. Youve gotten 5 answers all saying 5g is too small. Its not an issue of space limitations its an issue of water parameters. In a larger tank, when a clam soaks up a ton of Ca and CO3 and the kH drops as a result (probably pH with it), next time you go to test or change water it will have moved a little bit, and then you can correct it. Over the same period of time your kH will have plummeted. Even if you correct constantly, your parameters are going to look like a saw-tooth. Clams (and a lot of other things too) need a lot of stability and on 5g thats not easy to do. sorry if Im abrasive but I dont like when people fish for answers. If you already made up your mind then whats the point taking up all these people's time getting advice you wont listen to? Well hello to you too! And actually, only two posts mentioned the tank being too small, yourself excluded. One poster, who seems to be a very knowledgeable and trusted poster on this site even said they had "no doubt" could be done, with dosing. I've also just added a 5g sump bringing the total volume to around 12 gallons. The display has been up for over a year which is a pretty decent amount of time for things to settle. An auto top off is a couple days from completion as well, just waiting on a part. So mixing in a bit of Ca and alk to be added a few times a day is not hard. Moreover, at 12ga, and 450ppm of Ca; there is just over 20 grams of just calcium floating around. Even if the clam puts down 1g of shell every day (which granted I don't know how fast clams grow, but just in shell weight that seems like a quite a lot (thats almost a pound of just shell in a year, every year)) it would only take .4g of Ca. Which if you run that back through means a drop of about 9ppm Ca per day. That is very easily offset by top off water. I really don't mean to sound bullheaded and all that jazz, but when you come in with a hostile post with zero data or anything other than 'it sucks up a lot', it sorta brings out the snippiness in me. Unless you can show that the ballpark nutrient consumption of clams in the 3.5" range is so huge that it would cause intense swings in parameters even with dosing with top off water, I don't think parameters will be a great issue. If you can show that I'm wrong, please do. I would rather not have the clam die, and right now there is ample time to transfer to a larger system. However, your opinion and advice is noted. If things start going south, I do have friends with larger systems that I'm sure would be more than happy to house it for a couple months until I move and set up a larger system. Coming off of that, I did end up purchasing one yesterday while at the Liveaquaria tour, which was amazing. Got her for $85 after discount. Here's a crappy picture with the lights off. Placement was low for now while I was messing with the sump; water level shifted a lot while dialing in the return line. I'll be moving her up tomorrow. Now, with one or two of the LED clusters, above it, approximately how far up would there be sufficient light? Link to comment
malawian Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Happy for you man. Hope those 12 g are enough, that is definitely a vast improvement over 5 g. I made a point of highlighting that kH would be the tough one here but I really do hope for you (and for the clam) that it works out. Im not sure if you meant you are dosing with Kalk in your topoff water, if so good, that will help a lot, if not, you should consider it heavily (and luckily it is dirt cheap and easy to do). Link to comment
Mojado Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Moreover, at 12ga, and 450ppm of Ca; there is just over 20 grams of just calcium floating around. Even if the clam puts down 1g of shell every day (which granted I don't know how fast clams grow, but just in shell weight that seems like a quite a lot (thats almost a pound of just shell in a year, every year)) it would only take .4g of Ca. Which if you run that back through means a drop of about 9ppm Ca per day. That is very easily offset by top off water. I really don't mean to sound bullheaded and all that jazz, but when you come in with a hostile post with zero data or anything other than 'it sucks up a lot', it sorta brings out the snippiness in me. Unless you can show that the ballpark nutrient consumption of clams in the 3.5" range is so huge that it would cause intense swings in parameters even with dosing with top off water, I don't think parameters will be a great issue. If you can show that I'm wrong, please do. I would rather not have the clam die, and right now there is ample time to transfer to a larger system. His advice is anecdotal, though is probably much better than your back-of-the-envelope calculation. I'm no marine biologist, but I'm pretty certain calcium consumption does't work that way. According to your line of thinking, since I stopped growing in the 90s, my body doesn't need calcium anymore. Ninja edit: A quick google search turned up someone with data. Link to comment
duncan-junkie Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Beautiful clam!! Good luck Link to comment
tetraodon Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I just want to pop in and say that I have an inch or so sized maxima clam in a tank with a total water volume of 4 gallons Link to comment
bob115 Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well I'm pretty upset. I put the clam in last night after an hour drip acclimation, and shortly after I saw my nassarius snail poking around the hing of the shell. I flicked it away as soon as I saw it, and in a minute or two it was crawling back toward it, so I flicked it away again. Minute later it was crawling back. Flicked it away again and this time I put some blended seafood right next to the snail. Came back in a few minutes and didn't really see the snail anywhere. The clam was closed nicely last night and this morning. I moved it before the lights came on to a higher location. Now a couple hours later the thing is gaping really badly. When moving it in the morning I looked at the spot the snail was the previous night, and I could see into the shell. After googling around apparently there's quite a few reports of nassariuses going after clams that were just put in. Some kill the clam others just clean the shells. So I'm rather unhappy about this to say the least. Especially because now it 'proves' people right that I couldn't keep it in here. I'll start a separate thread about it's chances, but I'm about 95% sure its the end of the road for this one. Link to comment
GoingPostal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Nass. snails don't kill clams, they eat dead stuff. That clam was already doomed if the scavengers are eating it. Link to comment
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