Nano Cube 24g LED Upgrade

[icedgoblin]

Hi all

 

Looking for some expert advice please on how to upgrade my lighting on a D&D (UK version of JBJ) Nano cube 24g from the stock dual 36w T5 combo setup to an LED setup.

 

Currently I have 5 fish and various corals including hammer, torch, leather, xenia etc. nothing exotic requiring specific lighting. Ideally I would like the solution to be fully intergraded into the existing hood and if possible something I can build on and re-use when looking at a bigger and better tank.

 

Having researched a bit there are obviously various different options and I am really looking for a bit of advice on what will be the best option.

 

I guess my options are: -

 

1. A solder / solderless retrofit kit including CREE XT-E / XP-G emitters, drivers, heat sync etc. designed specifically for the 24g Nano Cube. Most of the standard options only provide white / blue as default but you can then specify individual colours, my requirement would be the relevant colours for a full spectrum configuration so White, Blue, Red, Green and UV etc.

 

2. A Solder / Solderless DIY option i.e. buying all the components separately, utilising CREE XT-E / XP-G emitters. Although possibly more work, the benefit of this is it may work out cheaper than ordering a kit from the US as I will more than likely have to pay an additional 20% tax on top (The doesn’t seem to be any UK providers of retro fit kits). If ordering the LEDs from China it may well pass though the mail and not incur charges and drivers I could probably source locally although they may be more expensive.

 

3. A multichip DIY solution, utilising either the LEDGroupBuy Lumia 5.1 of the new CREE 5.2. Looking at some of the info I don't know if it will be possible to integrate the 5.1 into the hood as it apparently runs pretty hot and therefore the heat sync needed is probably not going to fit (too high).

 

a. Will the CREE Lumia 5.2 run much cooler allowing me to use a heat sync that will fit in the hood. I am assuming since you can retrofit 24 CREEs into the hood successfully this will work?

b. In the Nano Cube the chip would be very close to the water (+- 1") would I need a lens on this as again this will depend whether this is an option for retrofitting into the existing hood.

c. I guess a downside of a multichip is if you get a fault on the device the whole thing will need to be replaced whereas with individual components these can be replaced at little cost.

 

As part of either of these solutions I also want a controller for dimming of each channel (preferably 5) thereby allowing full control of the spectrum for dawn, dusk, night mode and custom colour setup.

 

I appreciate the solution and components differ for each or these setups like drivers, PSU and controllers but I can narrow that down once I'm advised and decide on the solution to go for.

 

Look forward to your suggestions and thanks for your time!

Geoff

[jedimasterben]

The 5.2 is definitely the easiest to work with if you're not 100% confident in putting something together. The heatsink requirement would be the same for any of the same amount of LEDs, the only thing you need to watch out for is how well you mount it to the heatsink - screws are best, but since you're putting it into the hood you cannot use the MakersLED heatsink, so if you can drill/tap your heatsink (you can probably source locally for much less than ordering from the US), that would be preferable. Barring that, thermal epoxy would work and does work well, but it makes me feel better knowing that there are screws holding down that much heat

 

For drivers, the 5.2 is easier to drive since the forward voltage is half (or less) than the Lumia 5.1. Channel one and five are identical, so you can keep them on one driver. Heck, you could also control channel two along with them since it is only royal blue. So that leaves you with only three channels of control.

[icedgoblin]

Thanks for the reply Jedimasterben!

 

Would you agree that the 5.1 would run too hot to put in the hood i.e. find a heat sink suitable to handle the heat. I guess the attraction with the 5.1 is it is 100w although too strong for my current tank gives be a little more to play with if I get something bigger! Also the cost, 5.1 seems about half the price of the 5.2.

 

Other than the simpler installation, which I don't really mind as am fairly technically competent, is there any benefit going for the 5.2 over a standard DIY CREE retrofit kit ( with 24 / 25 LEDS), as for a little more than the cost of the 5.2 you can get a kit with LEDs and drivers etc.

 

Thanks again

 

Geoff

[jedimasterben]

You wouldn't need to run the Lumia at full power, and it would be the same as any other array of the same wattage in the same area, so I wouldn't worry about it unless the fans in the hood fail.

 

The 5.1 is $97, the 5.2 is $112, I think that's the pricing on them (I might be off by a couple bucks), and the cost to power the 5.2 is less than the 5.1 due to the difference in forward voltages.

 

If you use single LEDs, it won't really be any different unless you choose different LEDs, and you'll have more spotlighting due to having the LEDs spaced out more.

[icedgoblin]

Thanks Ben

 

Last few questions then, since in the cube the chip will be cvery close to the water and the tank is not that deep, will I need a lens with either those two lumias? Also from your comment about shotlighting do you mean it is less i.e. better result with a multi than single chips.

 

In your opinion which is the better chip the 5.1 or 5.2, or if you were going to put one in a nano cube which would you prefer? In your original reply you spoke about the control of channels on the 5.2 is this different on the 5.1, by that I am referring to tour comment about only ending up with three?

 

Looking at the LEDgroupbuy website I also see 3 star chips, how do you think a setup with those would compare to one with either Lumia.

 

Really appreciate your help on this!

 

Geoff

 

[jedimasterben]

No, you won't need a lens. I've got a thread somewhere on here with PAR measurements of the Lumia 5.1 without a lens, the 5.2 should be close to that, and it's more than enough for your tank.

 

Having the LEDs be closer means that you won't be able to see the lines that the different colored diodes make, since while the cones of light they emit overlap, it's not perfect since they are in different spots. Chips like the Lumia basically eliminate that.

 

The 5.2 uses less power and should emit about the same amount of light, maybe a bit less, and is less costly to power, so in the long run it will cost less overall than the 5.1 version.

 

Using 3up stars won't be too much different, other than that the light will still be more spread out.

[icedgoblin]

Hey Ben

 

Couple more questions for you!

 

I think I have pretty much decided on the Lumia 5.2 and just wanted to make sure I know exactly what I need in addition to the chip.

 

My main confusion is around the dimming (controller and pots), am I correct in assuming that the potentiometers, as part of either the Makers Drivers or for 4 channel dimming module, are for essentially setting the maximum output / brightness of each channel. Then the controller, either the Makers or Storm, will control the levels between zero and that set by potentiometers mentioned above. So without the potentiometers in-between you could essentially control the brightness with the controller however 100% would be the full chip output which you wouldn't want especially over a small tank like mine.

 

You mentioned on the 5.2 combining a few channels (1 & 5) as they were identical and it made sense to add another channel (2) to that too so I would end up with 3 channels, would this be the ideal setup in my case?

 

Am I correct in assuming then that I would either need two makers drivers modules (4 channels) and then the makers controller in addition to the chip and PSU?

 

Alternatively I guess if I wanted to use the Storm controller I could use a 5 up driver board with 3 x LDD_700H drivers, a 4 channel dimming module and that would be a similar solution?

 

With regards to power, if I only have 3 x LDD_700H drivers then will the 180w 48v 3.75A DC Power Supply be sufficient?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Geoff

[jedimasterben]

If you're looking to use the Storm controller, you need to use bare LDD drivers, which do not support any manual dimming without a 0-10v converter board and a 10v reference voltage from a separate power supply. That's one reason why the MakersDriver is a lot more expensive than just two bare LDD since it has another little controller inside it that converts a 10v signal that the pots control into the PWM that the LDD need to dim. it's all a bit over my head, too, I'm confused just from typing all of that out

 

Anyway, yes, combining the first and fifth channel would save on a driver since they are identical in the types of LEDs on them, and the LDD have an output of 45v so you'd still have some left over after combining the two.

 

Yes, you'd need two MakersDrivers, a 48v power supply, and the controller if you're going that route, or four bare LDD if you choose the Storm, plus a board, with no potentiometers since the LDD don't support manual control.

 

The 180w is more than sufficient, you'll not even be using but around 1/3 of its capacity.

[icedgoblin]

I think I have pretty much decided, with Bens great guidance, to go for the Lumia 5.2 multi chip, driven by 4/5 LLD-700H drivers. I am more than likely going to get the Coralux Storm controller to control it all.

 

This prompts my next question, a refugium light (growing Chaeto). Currently I have a Daylight (6500K) CF bulb and have been alternating tank / refugium with time switches. Since I am going to have a controller on the tank I thought of using the 5th driver for an LED solution on the refugium.

 

My question really is what color combination is suitable? I found an old thread with a comment from Milad that suggests the following: -

 

Cool White is used because there are peaks in 455nm

Plants in general need lots of 455nm, 660nm, 420nm

 

Around 3:2:1 ratio

 

Since this is over a year old thread, would this suggestion still stand as the best combination for growing chaeto. I am just aware that things have been changing quite quickly regarding best spectrums etc.

 

If I went for the above combination (it is only a small refugium in the back of a nano cube), could I drive the 6 LEDs of a single LDD-700H driver, timed with the Storm controller to come on after the main tank lights go off?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Geoff

[jedimasterben]

If you're not planning on having it be a 'display' refugium, then use a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio of deep red to royal blue, don't need any other LEDs, and pack as many as you can over the area. I've had the best results when running in the 300-500 PAR range in a refugium.

[icedgoblin]

Thanks again Ben for your valued input!

 

I have a couple more questions, this time regarding the drivers and PSU.

 

You previously mentioned the 180w PSU would be enough and I have noticed this is 3.75A. Am I correct in thinking this would be fine for 5 x LDD-700H drives totalling 3.5A but would I need 2 x LDD-1000H for channel 2 and 3 (base blue spectrum / base white colour) as these show 1500mA in the specification? While it may be that I do not run these two channels at max for my nano tank if I get something bigger I would prefer not to have to buy bigger drivers.

 

If that is the case then would this add up to 4.1A and I would then have to go for the 250w PSU that does 5A?

 

I was thinking the following: -

 

DT - Lumia 5.2

 

Channel 1 + 5 (both Actinic channels) - combined on LDD-700H

Channel 2 - LDD-1000H

Channel 3 - LDD-1000H

Channel 4 - LDD-700H

 

Refugium - DIY job (8 Deep Reds / 2 Royal Blues)

 

Channel 6 - LDD-700H

 

Again this would be all controller by the Storm controller, which I am happy to say Milad is going to be listing for Pre-order this week so that I can save on shipping not needing to order form two places!

 

Appreciate your time for reading and responding!

 

Regards

 

Geoff

[jedimasterben]

You're fine running 700mA for all the channels, you won't really need the extra output.

 

For sizing the power supply, you actually use watts instead of amps - this is about the only time watts ever come into play with LEDs

 

I can't wait to finally try out the Storm, either, and I'll get rid of some of the credit I've amassed lol