Jump to content
Innovative Marine Aquariums

Polarcollision's Nuvo 24: March FTS


Polarcollision

Recommended Posts

Polarcollision

Yeah the wp10 might be to much still lol

I'm thinking I may give the wp10 a try.

 

Let me know how it works out. I'd like a little more flow than 12 volts gives for the far end of the tank.

 

 

Awesome setup! I like the new signature a lot :).

 

That worm looks like a bobbit worm. Is it really fast? Like, REALLY fast??? If so, I'm pretty certain that's what it is. I don't think all bobbit worms are bad. Yours sounds like it might be helpful :).

 

Thanks Gena! I googled bobbit worm and they look much bigger than what I saw. This one was tiny and fast. It crawled around like a centipede. Hey - you wouldn't know what gets rid of spaghetti worms would you?

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Thanks Gena! I googled bobbit worm and they look much bigger than what I saw. This one was tiny and fast. It crawled around like a centipede. Hey - you wouldn't know what gets rid of spaghetti worms would you?

Could have been a baby bobbit. They do look like centipedes.

 

Gosh...I have a ton of spaghetti worms. Not sure what will eat them. I THINK I saw my mandarin with one in it's mouth, but it could have been a regular white worm too. I know I've seen my pom pom crab holding one before as an anemone replacement. I'd have to google it...I don't know off-hand what will readily eat them.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Polarcollision

Could have been a baby bobbit. They do look like centipedes.

 

Gosh...I have a ton of spaghetti worms. Not sure what will eat them. I THINK I saw my mandarin with one in it's mouth, but it could have been a regular white worm too. I know I've seen my pom pom crab holding one before as an anemone replacement. I'd have to google it...I don't know off-hand what will readily eat them.

 

Eeek - Hope it's either something else or gets eaten by a fish before it grows into this!

tim_neumann_lembeh_2011_12.jpg

 

YEah, I've been all over google looking for a way to control the spaghetti worms with no luck. They covered the sand in the 8 gallon and are starting the invasion again. Mostly they're helpful cleaning up stray bits on the sand, but when they get into the rocks they irritate zoas enough to close up and shrink away. Too funny about the pom pom crab using it for defense! Post a pic if you have one!

Link to comment

 

Eeek - Hope it's either something else or gets eaten by a fish before it grows into this!

tim_neumann_lembeh_2011_12.jpg

 

YEah, I've been all over google looking for a way to control the spaghetti worms with no luck. They covered the sand in the 8 gallon and are starting the invasion again. Mostly they're helpful cleaning up stray bits on the sand, but when they get into the rocks they irritate zoas enough to close up and shrink away. Too funny about the pom pom crab using it for defense! Post a pic if you have one!

Yeah...pretty ugly :lol:.

 

I didn't get a photo of it. If I see it again, I'll get one :).

Link to comment
Polarcollision

Am I doing this right?

 

red probe into tank

963371F4-7E5C-4BA3-B2FA-3246B24D4886-262

 

black probe into ground (touching the little golden bit of metal)

3048C186-69A1-4FE0-8A33-C6E776F9816C-262

 

this is the setting. When the red probe went into the tank the red indicator light came on. When I touched the golden metal ground, the indicator light went off. Meter read this:

E859BA7B-12B5-4C48-BE13-75837566E262-262

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Switch the dial to mA.

Then press the 'mode" button to put the meter in AC mode. In the picture, it is in DC mode.

 

Am I doing this right?

 

red probe into tank

black probe into ground (touching the little golden bit of metal)

this is the setting. When the red probe went into the tank the red indicator light came on. When I touched the golden metal ground, the indicator light went off. Meter read this:

Link to comment
Polarcollision

Switch the dial to mA.

Then press the 'mode" button to put the meter in AC mode. In the picture, it is in DC mode.

 

Thanks for the help! Few more questions if you don't mind

 

I know almost nothing about this, so it's hard for me to tell if I'm getting conflicting info or if it's just me. What's the difference between uA and mA? I was under the impression that uA was more sensitive.

 

So when I switch from DC to AC mode, what is it that I'm measuring? And why? Just trying to make the data I gather meaningful to me.

 

 

Glad you can figure that our my dads an electrician and I know None of this stuff

 

Clearly, I'm only going to figure this out with a lot of hand-holding. LOL

Link to comment

Do you need to test for stray current? GFCI will trip if there is a significant leak, and even if you have a leaking device it will only show up when you ground it (reaching into the tank or via a grounding probe). This would trip GFCI if it's significant.

Link to comment

I used to have a grounding probe in my tank then one day I decided to test for stray current, there was some. I took out the probe and the stray current disappeared. Some voltage in the tank is fine, it's current you want to avoid. The grounding probe supplied the small amount of voltage in my tank with a pathway thus creating current. Removal of the grounding probe eliminated the pathway and all the current.

 

From what I have read, some small traces of voltage will not harm the fish or corals because it is stagnant, of course larger amounts would be bad and dangerous. If you had excess voltage in the tank and you stuck your hand in the tank, you would be providing the ground and pathway for the voltage and the current would travel through your body.

 

After reading an article on the subject years ago I have not used a grounding probe. I have no electrical background but I think this is the basics of it.

Link to comment

Thanks for the help! Few more questions if you don't mind

 

I know almost nothing about this, so it's hard for me to tell if I'm getting conflicting info or if it's just me. What's the difference between uA and mA? I was under the impression that uA was more sensitive.

 

So when I switch from DC to AC mode, what is it that I'm measuring? And why? Just trying to make the data I gather meaningful to me.

 

Check out this plot.

 

The blue line is completely AC. As it alternates about zero volts, it has a DC value of zero. The red line is just the AC line with a DC offset of 10V.

 

Leakage current would be all AC, no DC, as it would originate from leakage from the house electrical system. So, when your meter is set to DC, it would of course read zero, since any leakage current would look like the blue line, not the red line.

 

uA is an amp divided by 100,000. A mA is an amp divided by 1000. uA is really, really small. If you are testing for current that can hurt you, then set it for mA. You should probably add a 1kohm resistor to one of the probes to properly emulate an electric path thru the human body.

 

Connect one end of a 1000 ohm resistor to the red probe and dip the other end of the resistor in the water, just the lead. Connect the black probe to the ground pin in a socket. With your meter set to to mA and mode in AC, see what your reading is.

 

Remember, most places in the house, it is hard to get a good path to ground. If your floor is wood, carpet, or tile, you won't have a path to ground. If you are on concrete, then it is easier to get to ground path and you might want to consider a GFCI.

post-75255-0-19377900-1388691930_thumb.png

Link to comment
Polarcollision

Do you need to test for stray current? GFCI will trip if there is a significant leak, and even if you have a leaking device it will only show up when you ground it (reaching into the tank or via a grounding probe). This would trip GFCI if it's significant.

 

No current -- that would shock me at least. I'm noticing something very slightly off with the fish and running down a checklist of possibilities. I totally overlooked installing a GFCI plug in the new tank location and have that planned for this week. Doh! Earlier this week I found the exchange between you and NanoTopia from 2012 regarding GFCI and grounding probe. I'm convinced it's not the best idea in this situation.

 

 

I used to have a grounding probe in my tank then one day I decided to test for stray current, there was some. I took out the probe and the stray current disappeared. Some voltage in the tank is fine, it's current you want to avoid. The grounding probe supplied the small amount of voltage in my tank with a pathway thus creating current. Removal of the grounding probe eliminated the pathway and all the current.

 

From what I have read, some small traces of voltage will not harm the fish or corals because it is stagnant, of course larger amounts would be bad and dangerous. If you had excess voltage in the tank and you stuck your hand in the tank, you would be providing the ground and pathway for the voltage and the current would travel through your body.

 

After reading an article on the subject years ago I have not used a grounding probe. I have no electrical background but I think this is the basics of it.

 

So flowing CURRENT is what we don't want. Low amounts of VOLTAGE are OK.

 

This multimeter is pretty cool. Lights up when it detects... whatever it is detecting. Reads 0.084 V on AC mode when I put it 0.25" from the glass. Not sure if that's an acceptable range for fish? My only point of reference is touching tongue to 9v battery to see if it's charged.

 

Were you into anatomy/physiology? If so, this wiki article is blowing my mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_line To think how similar the lateral line is to our ears...

 

 

Wow that's pretty cool. Would have never guessed, how do you know all this?

 

Agree! Thanks mojado - you're a gem!

 

 

Check out this plot.

 

The blue line is completely AC. As it alternates about zero volts, it has a DC value of zero. The red line is just the AC line with a DC offset of 10V.

 

Leakage current would be all AC, no DC, as it would originate from leakage from the house electrical system. So, when your meter is set to DC, it would of course read zero, since any leakage current would look like the blue line, not the red line.

 

uA is an amp divided by 100,000. A mA is an amp divided by 1000. uA is really, really small. If you are testing for current that can hurt you, then set it for mA. You should probably add a 1kohm resistor to one of the probes to properly emulate an electric path thru the human body.

 

Connect one end of a 1000 ohm resistor to the red probe and dip the other end of the resistor in the water, just the lead. Connect the black probe to the ground pin in a socket. With your meter set to to mA and mode in AC, see what your reading is.

 

Remember, most places in the house, it is hard to get a good path to ground. If your floor is wood, carpet, or tile, you won't have a path to ground. If you are on concrete, then it is easier to get to ground path and you might want to consider a GFCI.

 

So this is great to know for future as the equipment ages. I just bookmarked it. :-)

 

So I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I always thought the converter brick between the wall plug and the equipment converted it from AC to DC maybe because it's measured in volts. Am I completely missing the boat?

 

I see the fish acting strange so I'm running down possible causes--current/voltage being higher on the list.

 

When I switched the mode to AC, the current is 0.001 mA. 30.4 uA when everything is on. 22.8 uA when the heater is off, 19.1 uA when the wp25 is off, and 6.4 uA when circulation pump and skimmer are off (only the lights are on). It seems pretty low to me, though I have no idea if this amount is harmful to fish. I've never gotten even a hint of a shock with hands in the tank (wood floor though).

  • Like 1
Link to comment

So I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I always thought the converter brick between the wall plug and the equipment converted it from AC to DC maybe because it's measured in volts. Am I completely missing the boat?

 

I see the fish acting strange so I'm running down possible causes--current/voltage being higher on the list.

 

When I switched the mode to AC, the current is 0.001 mA. 30.4 uA when everything is on. 22.8 uA when the heater is off, 19.1 uA when the wp25 is off, and 6.4 uA when circulation pump and skimmer are off (only the lights are on). It seems pretty low to me, though I have no idea if this amount is harmful to fish. I've never gotten even a hint of a shock with hands in the tank (wood floor though).

 

No, you are right about bricks converting the AC to DC. The thing with the bricks is that the DC voltage is usually pretty low (below 40V), so there isn't a shock hazard with them. Also, the DC output is usuall floating with respect to ground. This means that if you came into contact with the DC output of the brick (either directly or thru the water), the current would not flow thru you into ground. If by chance the output is not isolated from ground, the voltage would be too low induce current high enough to hurt you. Check out the drawing. The AC/DC converter on the left has its output isolated from ground. The converter on the right does not, so you could get a path to ground thru you, however the voltage, if <40V, would not hurt you.

 

There are loads that are straight AC, like your pumps and heaters. These AC loads are the potential sources for safety hazards, assuming they fail shorted to the water, and you personally are grounded when you reach in the water. That's why I suggeseted you measure in AC, because DC loads aren't hazards, and are probably isolated from ground so you can't get shocked in the same manner you would for AC loads.

 

 

 

 

Wow that's pretty cool. Would have never guessed, how do you know all this?

 

 

 

Part of my job is working with a Safety Panel in dealing with electrical safety for a certain vehicle. I'm just glad to be able to contribute to the cause. :)

post-75255-0-43710000-1388717748_thumb.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment

When I switched the mode to AC, the current is 0.001 mA. 30.4 uA when everything is on. 22.8 uA when the heater is off, 19.1 uA when the wp25 is off, and 6.4 uA when circulation pump and skimmer are off (only the lights are on). It seems pretty low to me, though I have no idea if this amount is harmful to fish. I've never gotten even a hint of a shock with hands in the tank (wood floor though).

Yeah, this current doesn't exist when you aren't measuring for it. Did you measure it with leads or with leads and the 1000 ohm resistor?

 

I pulled up the manual for your meter. You can put the meter in voltage mode and test using the leads. Just do it the same as you showed in the picture, red lead in the water, black lead in the ground prong, but with the meter set to Voltage and press mode to read AC.

Link to comment

Interesting article: DC current used to speed up artificial coral reef development. Small amounts of current is related to faster coral growth as well as more resistance in poor water quality compared to natural reefs. Claims bleached corals recover in a few days.

 

http://biophysics.sbg.ac.at/ar/reef.htm

Ooh!!! Your meter measure capacitance!!!! Can you take a capacitance measurement, please? With the same probe setup you used to measure current in the picture, turn your dial all the way to the right (the orange label), then press mode until your meter displays "nF". I'd be intested to see what it says.

Link to comment

So flowing CURRENT is what we don't want. Low amounts of VOLTAGE are OK.

 

This multimeter is pretty cool. Lights up when it detects... whatever it is detecting. Reads 0.084 V on AC mode when I put it 0.25" from the glass. Not sure if that's an acceptable range for fish? My only point of reference is touching tongue to 9v battery to see if it's charged.

 

Were you into anatomy/physiology? If so, this wiki article is blowing my mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_line To think how similar the lateral line is to our ears...

Yup. Thanks for the article :)

Link to comment
Polarcollision

Ooh!!! Your meter measure capacitance!!!! Can you take a capacitance measurement, please? With the same probe setup you used to measure current in the picture, turn your dial all the way to the right (the orange label), then press mode until your meter displays "nF". I'd be intested to see what it says.

Whoa! LOL Wish I knew what was so great about capacitance. All those exclaimation points got me to test it. So it jumps around a lot but the range is between 7.24 and 5.86, spending the most time around 6.85.

 

Yeah, this current doesn't exist when you aren't measuring for it. Did you measure it with leads or with leads and the 1000 ohm resistor?

 

I pulled up the manual for your meter. You can put the meter in voltage mode and test using the leads. Just do it the same as you showed in the picture, red lead in the water, black lead in the ground prong, but with the meter set to Voltage and press mode to read AC.

I don't have that resister, so it was just the leads. AC volts is 39.83.

 

No, you are right about bricks converting the AC to DC. The thing with the bricks is that the DC voltage is usually pretty low (below 40V), so there isn't a shock hazard with them. Also, the DC output is usuall floating with respect to ground. This means that if you came into contact with the DC output of the brick (either directly or thru the water), the current would not flow thru you into ground. If by chance the output is not isolated from ground, the voltage would be too low induce current high enough to hurt you. Check out the drawing. The AC/DC converter on the left has its output isolated from ground. The converter on the right does not, so you could get a path to ground thru you, however the voltage, if <40V, would not hurt you.

 

There are loads that are straight AC, like your pumps and heaters. These AC loads are the potential sources for safety hazards, assuming they fail shorted to the water, and you personally are grounded when you reach in the water. That's why I suggeseted you measure in AC, because DC loads aren't hazards, and are probably isolated from ground so you can't get shocked in the same manner you would for AC loads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part of my job is working with a Safety Panel in dealing with electrical safety for a certain vehicle. I'm just glad to be able to contribute to the cause. :)

Thanks so much for the explanation. The concepts are a whole lot less fuzzy now. :-) Really appreciate it!

 

Fay picture polar

They're coming! I spent the morning with the camera and multimeter

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Polarcollision

January FTS under blue LED

 

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/January-2014-FTS_zps7044bf95.jpg.html'>January-2014-FTS_zps7044bf95.jpg

 

Trachyphyllia

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030D1338_zpse542f98b.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030D1338_zpse542f98b.jpg

 

Purple Plasma

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030D1B13_zps771642c7.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030D1B13_zps771642c7.jpg

 

Ricordea

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E1227_zps438ff5ae.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E1227_zps438ff5ae.jpg

 

Underwater flowers

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2016_zps46b16fed.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2016_zps46b16fed.jpg

 

Underwater fractals (mushie)

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E1931_zps8a318b1d.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E1931_zps8a318b1d.jpg

 

Hopefully the clown will find this soon. She's bothering her zoas to death.

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E0502_zps51966321.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E0502_zps51966321.jpg

 

UFO landing pad

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E1643_zps7f3f2fac.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E1643_zps7f3f2fac.jpg

 

Ant Insignis

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2308_zps27ebf2e8.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2308_zps27ebf2e8.jpg

 

unknown purple and green

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2B20_zpsfeb9793b.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2B20_zpsfeb9793b.jpg

 

Purple plasma

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2356_zps6fc4877d.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2356_zps6fc4877d.jpg

 

Ponape

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2925_zps8990dd9b.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2925_zps8990dd9b.jpg

 

Unknown maricultured

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2703_zps009f240c.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2703_zps009f240c.jpg

 

Sunset mille

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2604_zps48006d79.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2604_zps48006d79.jpg

 

orange digi

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E2F48_zps03c0f850.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E2F48_zps03c0f850.jpg

 

goofball

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E3B40_zps75dc7c3f.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E3B40_zps75dc7c3f.jpg

 

Hi!

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E3822_zps1460f63a.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E3822_zps1460f63a.jpg

 

cleaning up

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E0E20_zpsb0aa3bd1.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E0E20_zpsb0aa3bd1.jpg

 

snail periscope

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030E0B56_zps18762d96.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030E0B56_zps18762d96.jpg

 

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/polarcollision/media/DPP07DE01030D1B13_zps771642c7.jpg.html'>DPP07DE01030D1B13_zps771642c7.jpg

  • Like 6
Link to comment

After living on a sailboat, I think I'm obsessed with the idea that everything I own has to serve at least two functions! LOL

 

 

I've just discovered a new (to me at least) member of the clean up crew. It eats the green film that can cover soft corals. Pretty sweet! It's kinda scary looking. Here's the best pic I could find on google. Anybody happen to know what it is?

 

284887024_99c06010ea_o.jpg

Looks a lot like a bobbit, IIRC there are quite a few species ranging from 3 inches to 5 feet. If it bites it's probably a bobbit, large ones can take a finger I've heard.

Link to comment
Polarcollision

Looks a lot like a bobbit, IIRC there are quite a few species ranging from 3 inches to 5 feet. If it bites it's probably a bobbit, large ones can take a finger I've heard.

 

Gena mentioned bobbit worms as well. The little worm is about .75" long so I'm thinking it's not the same. For a while I was on the lookout for worm heads in the sand, but all I see are snail periscopes. Anyways, the closest fitting so far is Eunicidae family and dorvilleidae worms.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

I think you've answered this a hundred times, but what camera do you use? And lens (if SLR).

 

Beautiful pictures ... will be nice to see that digitata color up.

 

 

Nevermind, found it in the other thread.

 

 

Shot with a Canon 5D markII, 100mm macro, F2.8, and I think 800 ISO.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
  • Polarcollision changed the title to Polarcollision's Nuvo 24: FTV & new Apex

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...