40 Breeder Project

[farkwar]

Do you think one radion is enough for a 40b?

[koteckn]

It's surely not optimum, but I believe it will be sufficient. I plan to leave 3-4" of sand bed on each side, meaning the rock structure will be located more towards the middle of the tank rather than the side walls. Given that there will be at least 6" total of sand on the sides, my light will no longer need to stretch the entire 36" width of the tank, but now only 30" or so.

 

Still need some help/input from my previous questions from my previous post.

Thanks again

[koteckn]

Well,

We'll have enough RODI water tonight to finish filling the tank up. At this point i'm confused if my plan will work so please advise if this is an acceptable way to start our cycle.

 

My plan was:

Tonight

1. Fill the tank with RODI.

2. Start the tank and make sure there are no leaks again inside.

3. Add the salt mix to the RODI water in the tank (while it's runnng) in order to have my salinity read 1.025.

 

Tomorrow

1. Drive to LFS to purchase live sand and live rock to add to the tank.

2. Add sand and rock to the tank, take out water that is displaced, make sure the salinity still reads 1.025 and adjust the salinity if necessary.

3. Step away and let the tank cycle.

 

Please advise us if this will work and is the correct order of operations.

 

Also,

Is it best to buy cured rock or uncured rock to cycle the tank asap (money is no object)? If live rock is the way to go, what would be the best way to transport live rock ~1hr home without ruining the live rock?

 

Here's a sneak peak of the tank in it's final location with the radion shining.

 

Thanks!

- n

 

[05XRunner]

1 Radion with wide angle lens is plenty. I run g2 with the wide angle at 9.5" off the water and works good. I only have about 30" of actual rock work in center for corals. I even contacted ecotech and they told me 1 with wide angle is plenty.

 

If it was me and I did it this way. I started my tank with new dead sand, I used all dry rock from BRS and reefrocks.net and bought 1 small piece of live rock to seed the tank and then added a bottle of bio Spira to seed bacteria more then let it sit for 2weeks. I would only do a tank this way anymore as to many times in past getting all live rock you will end up annoyed that you are fighting flatworms, aptasia, or some other pest or nuisance algae that hitch hicks in on the rock.

My tank is been up for 3.5months and doing good.

http://s12.photobucket.com/user/05Xrunner/media/40%20Breeder/DPP_0001_zpsbdf85cf6.jpg.html'>

I have a pretty heavy bioload in my tank and I feed alot but will say biopellets ae just AWESOME. I run a CPR nano reactor with 120ml of pellets and Since I added the 3 chromis my tank is only showing .25ppm of nitrate before it was undetectable so i would say they are a great addition to invest in for a very small cost. Everyday i feed twice a day for fish, dose Red Sea reef energy, 1 feeding of BRS reef chili, and 1ml of seachem zoo plankton a night and nitrates are barely there now. They could be actually showing cause some of my pellets probably have been used up and might need to add a few ML

[koteckn]

Any other input on my cycling plans over the next two days?

 

My plan was:

Tonight

1. Fill the tank with RODI.

2. Start the tank and make sure there are no leaks again inside.

3. Add the salt mix to the RODI water in the tank (while it's runnng) in order to have my salinity read 1.025.

 

Tomorrow

1. Drive to LFS to purchase live sand and live rock to add to the tank.

2. Add sand and rock to the tank, take out water that is displaced, make sure the salinity still reads 1.025 and adjust the salinity if necessary.

3. Step away and let the tank cycle.

 

Please advise us if this will work and is the correct order of operations.

 

Thanks again,

- n

[Mojado]

http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/RichardSperry/media/20140425_170149.jpg.html][/url]

 

http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/RichardSperry/media/20140425_170138.jpg.html][/url]

 

http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/RichardSperry/media/20140425_170124.jpg.html][/url]

 

I wish I had room for two. I would run two.

 

If your fathers in the business maybe he can get you a couple at cost.

 

The waste line is not tied down, I intend to water the grass with it thus summer. It just goes to washing machine drain out.

Is that a 50 gallon? How long do you store the RODI? RODI doesn't like to stay RODI for long.

[farkwar]

Is that a 50 gallon? How long do you store the RODI? RODI doesn't like to stay RODI for long.

I'm more concerned with biological activity for lack of chlorine in the water, than it absorbing chemicals from FDA foods safe plastic.

 

Not really concerned with my corals developing neogynomastia from the BPH (that may on the slightest probability might be)in the water.

 

 

That said, I take out about 20-40 gallons every week or so, and make 20-40 or so a week, currently with only the one 40b tank up and running. Im buying a full 40 gallon tank from a member here, picking up next week. My display is 50 gallons, yet to be filled with water. I wanted something where I could do a 100% water change quickly if needed. Read about the demise of Oregon Reef, for some context.

 

One could raise the same objection about any ATO container, but I think the risks are mitigatable and acceptable. Name an element or chemical absorbed by RODI from out of a container or the air that has an appreciable negative effect on a tank full of corals, for I cant think of one.

[koteckn]

Well,

We began the cycle last night. We placed 26 lbs of live rock in the main display and 5 lbs of live rock rubble into the refugium (for now at least until we finish up the skimmer side of the sump). We also added 15 lbs of live sand and 30 lbs of crushed argonite into the DT.

 

At this point, what are some things we should be looking out for and is anyone able to estimate how long we have until the tank is cycled?

 

Should we add a small CUC prior to the cycle being complete or is that the first step once the cycle completes itself?

 

Planning to run the tank at 1.025 salinity and 78-80 degrees for temp. Any objections to that?

 

Attached is a photo after all the sand was added and man was that cloudier than we originally expected... We weren't able to see more than an 1" into the tank. The tank started to clear up by morning but left a light dusting on everything. Any proper ways of ridding the DT from the sand dustings?

 

Thanks,

-n

[koteckn]

Does anything else need to be added to the tank to properly cycle or is the live rock and sand sufficient? I read some posts that people drop a cube of frozen food into the tank for it to decompose and also a raw shrimp... Thanks,

- n

[koteckn]

You guys don't like hooking a brother up now do you... haha

 

Anyways,

We added ~30 more lbs of live sand (half in the refugium and half into the DT) giving us a total of about 50lbs of live sand and 30 lbs of crushed argonite all mixed in together. We have ~31 lbs of live rock total in the system as well, as I've mentioned before.

 

We also added another piece of live rock that had a hitchhiker attached which I believe is a feather duster. I figured we would take a chance with it as we used so much live material to start the tank. The feather duster was open and spread this morning when I checked on the system, which I would think is a good sign.

 

We tested the parameters yesterday after adding this additional live sand and piece of live rock and the test results were rather surprising to us...

 

PH: 8.0

Salinity: 1.025

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5-10

 

Now, I've kept freshwater fish for years now, and normally this means the tank is cycled. Is this the case for saltwater only after 24-48 hrs? If so, great and the live material was definitely worth the cost. I do not plan to add anything for at least another week so we can take care of cleaning all of the dust off of the live rock and baffles and make sure everything is as clean as can be before adding our CUC. I plan to also test the tank every other day or so to make sure the cycle has, in-fact, finished.

 

Which brings me to my next question... How much of a CUC should I start with? Can anyone give me a recommendation for a solid CUC for a 40 breeder that is reef safe...?

 

Thanks,

- n

[Steensj2004]

Might wanna introduce an ammonia source anyway, not 100% sure but cycles usually take more that 24-48 hours. Starting with live sand, etc is great, but I would be cautious. I start my tanks with seasoned water from an established tank, live sand, and live rock....I still give it at least a week and add a source of ammonia. Check out Reefcleaners,com......best place to get a CUC and cheapest. They have premade crews based on the size of your tank. Looks great, really love your setup!

[koteckn]

Day 4 parameters:

 

PH: 8.2

Ammo: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 10ppm

Salinity: 1.025

 

Is it a good idea to look into ordering a CUC yet or should we wait a few more days to make sure that the cycle is complete...? If it wasn't cycled, we should be seeing ammo and/or nitrite by now right?

 

Below are some cell pics of what the DT and sump look like now. Please feel free to let us know what we should do next if you have any ideas.

 

Thanks,

- n

[farkwar]

You want crap algae growing in the tank before you add the Clean Up Crew.

 

They need something to clean up(eat), as a matter of course.

 

 

 

 

You're on day 4?

 

No need to be impatient. If you have added real live rock, it will happen when it happens. Honestly, its better to think that you are starting the cycle rather than thinking that a cycle is finished. A finished cycle equals a dead tank at the end.

[BeardedReeferLLC]

Agreed ^^

[koteckn]

so should we be running the lights to help this algae growth or will the diatoms show without a light source?

[koteckn]

A few more shots of the tank under some different lighting. Tanks crystal clear and notice the feather duster hitch hiker. Adding a raw shrimp here shortly to help the cycle. Will post more when the cycle completes itself or if additional questions arise.

- n

[farkwar]

so should we be running the lights to help this algae growth or will the diatoms show without a light source?

 

Yes.

 

Coralline algae needs light.

 

I would probably even be breaking in the skimmer at the point you are at. No carbon or other chemical filtration though.

 

Personally, I would put 5 damsel in the tank right now, and start feeding them daily. And doing weekly or twice a week water changes. When I start a cycle I am trying to start growing bacteria, in great numbers, that eat fish poop and pee, and eat dead fish. So I feed them fish poop and pee, and sometimes a dead fish. It works every time, no questions necessary.

 

(a dozen posters will now follow saying this is wrong, and that I am sadistic).

[koteckn]

I'm not real sure why I cannot get genuine answers as i'm trying to learn as I go with some of this information.

 

I guess I will continue to cycle our tank with the live rock and sand. We placed a piece of raw shrimp in to speed up the ammo spike and will take this out when we see the ammo start to rise. Will not add any fish/livestock to the tank at this point as I also disagree with cycling with fish.

- n

[farkwar]

You should ask the mods to move this thread to Beginners Forum. This is the DIY forum.

 

You may get more posts to the beginner questions you have. Youre in the wrong place.

 

 

 

 

My posts are genuine, btw. This one included.

[koteckn]

Thanks for the advice and sorry about that. I totally misread your previous post. The cycle is going well now. Will check back in once the CUC is added after the cycle completes itself.

- n

[eskimo1]

Nice set up

[koteckn]

Thanks! The only thing we need to do before the cycle ends is add another piece or two of live rock to heighten the right side of the rock structure.

 

tty all soon.

- n

[koteckn]

6/8/14 - Update - Day 18 of cycle

 

Water Parameters:

Salinity: 1.025

PH: 8

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

Calcium: 420

Phosphate: 0

Carbonate Hardness: 10-11 dKH

 

Do these parameters, at this point of the cycle, confirm that my tank has successfully cycled?

 

Below is additional information that may help in determining if we are cycled:

1. Inhabitants: 1 YT Damsel, 5 Astrea, 8 Nassarius, 5 Nerite, 6 Blue Leg Hermits (all split between DT and sump)

a. all of these were added yesterday, day 17, as algae began to really start taking over. The parameters were the same as well.

2. Added to the refugium: 1 clump of grape caulerpa (24 hr light cycle), 2 Nassarius, 2 Nerite, 2 Blue Leg Hermits

3. 40 Breeder DT with 20L sump (at 50% capacity)

4. 41lbs of live rocks (cured): 32lbs in DT, 9lbs in sump

5. 52lbs of Live Sand, 20lbs of Crushed Argonite

6. Coralife super skimmer 125: now producing dark brown skimmate

7. turbotwist 6x 18w

8. magdrive 7 return pump (~500gph at return)

9. 3 Hydor 425 waver makers (temporary until MP10 purchase)

10. Radion Gen 2 running 12 hours/day through entire cycle

11. ATO pushing about 1gpd in evaporation

 

Attached are some pictures of the sump and algae growth in DT.

Thanks for any confirmations,

- N

 

[markalot]

6/8/14 - Update - Day 18 of cycle

 

Water Parameters:

Salinity: 1.025

PH: 8

Ammo: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

Calcium: 420

Phosphate: 0

Carbonate Hardness: 10-11 dKH

 

Do these parameters, at this point of the cycle, confirm that my tank has successfully cycled?

 

Below is additional information that may help in determining if we are cycled:

1. Inhabitants: 1 YT Damsel, 5 Astrea, 8 Nassarius, 5 Nerite, 6 Blue Leg Hermits (all split between DT and sump)

a. all of these were added yesterday, day 17, as algae began to really start taking over. The parameters were the same as well.

2. Added to the refugium: 1 clump of grape caulerpa (24 hr light cycle), 2 Nassarius, 2 Nerite, 2 Blue Leg Hermits

3. 40 Breeder DT with 20L sump (at 50% capacity)

4. 41lbs of live rocks (cured): 32lbs in DT, 9lbs in sump

5. 52lbs of Live Sand, 20lbs of Crushed Argonite

6. Coralife super skimmer 125: now producing dark brown skimmate

7. turbotwist 6x 18w

8. magdrive 7 return pump (~500gph at return)

9. 3 Hydor 425 waver makers (temporary until MP10 purchase)

10. Radion Gen 2 running 12 hours/day through entire cycle

11. ATO pushing about 1gpd in evaporation

 

Attached are some pictures of the sump and algae growth in DT.

Thanks for any confirmations,

- N

 

 

I'm late to the party here.

 

Answer to above is no, all 0's could mean a number of things.

 

The plan you originally listed sounds good but you should wait 1 month before adding a cleanup crew and then only add the crew if you see algae growing. If you don;t see any new tank issues (algae, diatoms, etc) then you probably don't have enough live rock. Wait one more month for the first fish.

 

I believe you can alter this plan by waiting a month and then adding a single fish with a product like bio spira plus dosing Seachem Prime (1 cap full) every day for a week just in case there is an ammonia issue due to lack of bacteria.

 

I always use Seachem Prime when adding fish, even on my 2 year old tank. The less stress the better.

 

You should QT all fish, though I don't. If you buy locally and make sure the fish is eating at the store, and then make sure the fish experiences no stress due to bad water (Seachem Prime helps here) then you can probably get away with no QT, but there are no guarantees.

 

The key, always, is to think about each action, understand what is going to happen, then take the action. Do everything slowly and you won't have any regrets.

[markalot]

Woops.

 

Algae growth in the sand is a good sign there are nutrients in the tank. I would still wait a month before adding your first fish, and of course only one fish at a time and space it out to at least a week between fish. Remember you will have enough bacteria for your current bioload and when you increase the bioload the bacteria has to catch up and increase in population. You can usually get away with one small fish, but IMO doing preventative treatments to the water (again, Seachem Prime) insures the fish doesn;t experience any bad water, even if it's not detectable on our test kits.