Mr. Mustache Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Forget about the 10 gallon and just go bigger. I had a 14 gallon for a little over 3 years and was relatively successful with just water changes, no skimmer. I was pretty religious about the water changes, 2.5 gallon every sunday. Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Why would you only do a 10% water change in a 10 gallon tank?? Because I'd have a skimmer and that's all I'd have to do. I've never said to myself "man water changes are so fun, if only there were a way I could do more". Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Because I'd have a skimmer and that's all I'd have to do. I've never said to myself "man water changes are so fun, if only there were a way I could do more". Goddamned this. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Because I'd have a skimmer and that's all I'd have to do. I've never said to myself "man water changes are so fun, if only there were a way I could do more". Lol. Sadly, I agree completely. Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Aelvion, I must apologize for my arrogance. I sometimes forget that being TOTM puts me in the public eye and I should be held to a higher standard than common folk such as yourself, much like the president or professional athletes. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Aelvion, I must apologize for my arrogance. I sometimes forget that being TOTM puts me in the public eye and I should be held to a higher standard than common folk such as yourself, much like the president or professional athletes. Wow, I'm so impressed... I guess I should join a random forum, post like crazy, donate funds for premium membership... anyway, A tank that has been running less than 2 years shows me nothing other than you have decent scaping skills. With your nonchalant attitude and laziness towards water changes it will be sadly crashed before it sees another 2 years. suit yourself. If you want to be lazy and not do proper water changes, well, so be it. And if you think a skimmer can come close to benefiting your tank in the same ways proper water changes can then I can't say anymore to you other than good luck. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Wow, I'm so impressed... I guess I should join a random forum, post like crazy, donate funds for premium membership... anyway, A tank that has been running less than 2 years shows me nothing other than you have decent scaping skills. With your nonchalant attitude and laziness towards water changes it will be sadly crashed before it sees another 2 years. suit yourself. If you want to be lazy and not do proper water changes, well, so be it. And if you think a skimmer can come close to benefiting your tank in the same ways proper water changes can then I can't say anymore to you other than good luck. FYI http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/259616-kgoldys-two-years-without-water-changes/ $10 says you aren't growing corals as fast as this guy. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 FYI http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/259616-kgoldys-two-years-without-water-changes/ $10 says you aren't growing corals as fast as this guy. I'm not even going to get into the no water change debate. Link to comment
Sunar357 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dude my tank skills so make yours look bad. LOLROFLLMAOWTFBBQ Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Wow, I'm so impressed... I guess I should join a random forum, post like crazy, donate funds for premium membership... anyway, A tank that has been running less than 2 years shows me nothing other than you have decent scaping skills. With your nonchalant attitude and laziness towards water changes it will be sadly crashed before it sees another 2 years. suit yourself. If you want to be lazy and not do proper water changes, well, so be it. And if you think a skimmer can come close to benefiting your tank in the same ways proper water changes can then I can't say anymore to you other than good luck. FYI I didn't buy a premium membership. Who said I'm lazy about water changes? I surely didn't, I change 18.1% every Sunday. I've never missed a Sunday, I said I do not find them fun. Keep rambling on with assumptions. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 @CHADF You are so closed minded and immature it is making me a bit disgusted to be part of the same forum. I am trying to help the OP, if you won't listen to me maybe you'll heed the advice of Chris Marks (The guy who named you TOTM and practically invented nano-reefing): http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/_/beginners/natural-filtration-r3 Link to comment
gulfsurfer101 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Aelvion's postings in this thread are just beyond ignant! Water changes will work in helping only change whatever percent of water you change out, the skimmer will help in reducing the amount of organic material that's left in the water column that in such a small tank will build up very quickly. Large water changes on such a small tank are not good and can cause sick in some corals and inverts. 2g max a week is what I'd go with on a ten gal. Ignorance breeds ignorance, truth prevails! Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Aelvion's postings in this thread are just beyond ignant! Water changes will work in helping only change whatever percent of water you change out, the skimmer will help in reducing the amount of organic material that's left in the water column that in such a small tank will build up very quickly. Large water changes on such a small tank are not good and can cause sick in some corals and inverts. 2g max a week is what I'd go with on a ten gal. Ignorance breeds ignorance, truth prevails! http://www.nano-reef...l-filtration-r3 Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 @CHADF You are so closed minded and immature it is making me a bit disgusted to be part of the same forum. I am trying to help the OP, if you won't listen to me maybe you'll heed the advice of Chris Marks (The guy who named you TOTM and practically invented nano-reefing): http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/_/beginners/natural-filtration-r3'>http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/_/beginners/natural-filtration-r3 Did you delete your post that said my 10% wc was bad advice after you read the article you just posted? It was between my two posts right before the cute monkey. Link to comment
gulfsurfer101 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm not even going to read it but I'm guessing your posting about 100% water changes that people claimed to do. Not very successful long terms. Link to comment
TheKleinReef Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 http://www.nano-reef...l-filtration-r3 "The nutrient export is provided by frequent partial water changes of 10-15% about every week. Trace elements are replenished through water changes." to the OP. get a skimmer if the choice is between "no benefits" (whichis false) and benefits (which is legit). get a skimmer. i had a skimmer on my 10g and it was my favorite tank i ever had: http://s147.photobucket.com/user/roger_090/media/B5918A42-AB87-4B2F-B857-1439B9F55DF4-40134-00000AD2D2E559D7.jpg.html'> just my .02 Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Did you delete your post that said my 10% wc was bad advice after you read the article you just posted? It was between my two posts right before the cute monkey. ummm.. no. did you read the part about not using a PS and why it is more detrimental than beneficial in our sized tanks??? The amount of WC is not the debate here, 10-15% is a minimum required to displace the skimmer. This is common knowledge, many respected reefers have written articles very similar to Marks article linked above. Everyone here can call me ignorant as much as they want, doesn't change the fact that I am correct and a PS in a 10 gallon is not needed and not recommended. Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm not even going to read it but I'm guessing your posting about 100% water changes that people claimed to do. Not very successful long terms. No but it recommends 10-15% weekly water changes with no skimmer. He said my 10% with a skimmer is bad advice right before the monkey, then deleted that before he posted the article. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm not even going to read it but I'm guessing your posting about 100% water changes that people claimed to do. Not very successful long terms. no, its an article from Chris Marks stating why Protien Skimmers shouldn't be used in nano's. not surprised you wont read it. No but it recommends 10-15% weekly water changes with no skimmer. He said my 10% with a skimmer is bad advice right before the monkey, then deleted that before he posted the article. lol, I didn't delete anything and it was bad advice. but back on topic: here is the important part of the article: With this natural method, no protein skimmers or dosing is used. Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky. Protein skimmers are beneficial however, because they remove excess nutrients from the water, but this advantage is out weighed by the disadvantages. To remove the excess nutrients from this system you do a partial water change. The water change also doubles to replenish your trace elements, which are in your synthetic sea salt. Nitrates are removed, dissolved organic compounds are removed, and your trace elements are replaced. Your nitrates will always be at or near zero, and the elements will stay at a consistant level. Link to comment
Chadf Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 lol, I didn't delete anything and it was bad advice. Liar. If there was no post between my two posts they would've been merged. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Liar. If there was no post between my two posts they would've been merged. I'm not saying it wasn't there, Im saying I didn't delete it. I admit I think 10% is bad advice... Why are you trying to skirt the subject?? Remember? we were talking about how important you thought a protein skimmer was in a 10G, and how I was wrong to suggest the very same thing that the creator of this site and originator of nano-reefing suggests in his article. Link to comment
gulfsurfer101 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Funny thing how information changes so briefly in this hobby. Link to comment
Aelvion Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 in addition to Marks' suggestions, Penn State University conducted a study and concluded: Skimmers can only remove ~30% of TOCs, after that, they are ineffective. GAC is much more effective at TOC removal than skimmers; on a small system, a skimmer is (arguably) not worth the expense or space consumed; GAC alone is fine. On larger systems, GAC by itself is just too expensive to use solely, so a skimmer is highly benficial from the cost perspective. Skimmers cannot take the place of routine regular water changes. Link to comment
Graver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 There are plenty of reefers with amazing tanks that don't do water changes. I personally do, but it is entirely possible to have a long lasting reef without them. Link to comment
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