LED or MH for a maxima?

[farkwar]

This is almost the same as saying the antique chair you found on the side of the road is a great chair once you replace the legs and back and re-upholster it. To me sounds like a waste of time and I can just go buy a brand new antique chair if that's the look I'm going for.

No its not like that.

 

It's exactly as I stated.

 

 

 

A MH fixture imparts no quality to the bulb besides electricity, and maybe the reflector. It imparts no quality to the light.

 

Your analogy is silly and irrelevant.

 

You can put an expensive German bulb into a socket, reflected with a pie tin, and powered by a 15 year old ballast,,, and the light from the bulb will be the same as from an expensive brand new German fixture.

 

And thats about what those first gen MH fixtures were like, not a pie tin, which might have been better. The reflectors were white sheet metal. And they grew clams just fine.

 

Now efficiency and aesthetics, that's a different topic. You may not like how they look, but that's different; they work the same.

[MeepNand]

No its not like that.

 

It's exactly as I stated.

 

 

 

A MH fixture imparts no quality to the bulb besides electricity, and maybe the reflector. It imparts no quality to the light.

 

Your analogy is silly and irrelevant.

 

You can put an expensive German bulb into a socket, reflected with a pie tin, and powered by a 15 year old ballast,,, and the light from the bulb will be the same as from an expensive brand new German fixture.

 

And thats about what those first gen MH fixtures were like, not a pie tin, which might have been better. The reflectors were white sheet metal. And they grew clams just fine.

 

Now efficiency and aesthetics, that's a different topic. You may not like how they look, but that's different; they work the same.

Actually, the ballast plays a big role in how much light a bulb puts out. The reflector does too.

I remember reading something a while back. This guy had spider reflectors (default) and got around 80-100 PAR at the bottom. It was an old tank.

First, he cleaned them off. Instant boost.

Then, he replaced them with new, $80 reflectors. Light output went up a ton. I'll look it up to get some specific figures.

 

EDIT: Link to site: http://www.melevsreef.com/par_readings.html

 

 

It has the SAME blue.

 

Efficiency doesnt really change with MH bulbs. I suppose there are more and less efficient Ballasts. People who bought or buy MH just threw more watts at the inefficiency, and more money.

 

A well made 7500K MH bulb has the same amount if blue as a well made 14,000K bulb. It just has less of the reds and greens etc. You have less light because you have less light, not less blue; why blue MH appear dimmer than a 6500 or 7500K MH.

 

Even intuitively this makes sense. Take an OCW which appears white(or a full spectrum like the Lumia), kill the red LED; Its now blue and the amount of the blue didnt change. And you have 1/3ish less overall light.

 

 

MH lamps have different amounts of blue. Take a look at some spectral charts.

[justin carnecchia]

I know there are a lot of fans of leds here and I am to, to an extent. But I wouldn't be so fast to knock halides. If nothing else look at some of the amazing tanks out there running halides. Halides provide a high intensity light source in spectrums appropriate (depending on bulb choice) to coral growth. I know there are many tanks out there running halides getting growth at least as good as under the sun. They are the standard by which leds are being judged. To say they are obsolete just because something newer is giving them some competition just isn't true.

As for which is better for a triacanid, especially a difficult species like these cultured maximas we are seeing so much of I'm going to say halides. I'm sure there are some led fixtures that can do as good a job, especially DIY, but I don't see them doing a better job and many of the commercial fixtures I see I don't think will do that. Yeah they run cooler and you don't have to replace bulbs, but unless you are buying a top of the line fixture or making one yourself I don't think it is putting out a more intense light in a more appropriate spectrum. So if we're talking about just the light I would still vote for halides.

[farkwar]

Justin,

 

Right on.

 

Look how much effort we go through to make LEDs "look" like MH.

 

Well at least I am, and everyone on the Evil Cluster/Full Spectrum/Dream Chip ride is.

 

I have two arrays coming in today, that ill be basing my DIY around. We shall see, 5400 lumens just from those might turn my 40 into a crockpot. I didnt want my old venerable meanwells going to waste (so I bought more shit again to not waste money).

 

MH lamps have different amounts of blue. Take a look at some spectral charts.

Something like these?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=iwasaki+6500k+spectrum&client=tablet-android-att-us&hl=en-US&source=android-browser-suggest&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rO8gUojoEOXmiwKx44GICw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=800&bih=1280

[farkwar]

Oh, and Meep.

 

Check out this site

 

http://ac-rc.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=e93e4f9c68f87167d66bb6903863da18

 

They have 10 and 20 LED high density circuit heatsink "cree" boards. They even have goosenecks for them for cheap, no black silver only. And like tge poster said, you can just ditch the corner spots, jump them, for an even 16. They are run as two parallel strings of 10 fyi.

 

A poster posted a link in one of my threads about the topic. I remember the site but was looking at when I was thinking arrays over my tank, I didnt even know what those boards were for back then.

 

Pretty cool huh? Now you can spend that money on the oven.

[MeepNand]

Oh, and Meep.

 

Check out this site

 

http://ac-rc.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=e93e4f9c68f87167d66bb6903863da18

 

They have 10 and 20 LED high density circuit heatsink "cree" boards. They even have goosenecks for them for cheap, no black silver only. And like tge poster said, you can just ditch the corner spots, jump them, for an even 16. They are run as two parallel strings of 10 fyi.

 

A poster posted a link in one of my threads about the topic. I remember the site but was looking at when I was thinking arrays over my tank, I didnt even know what those boards were for back then.

 

Pretty cool huh? Now you can spend that money on the oven.

A problem with that is if a string burns out, the current to the other will double and kill your leds.

[Toprharley]

Not that I have much experience but for what it's worth, I have the 160W 16K Razor on a 29 tall with a small Maxima about 12" under the center cluster and it seems to being doing fairly well. I'll keep you posted if things take a turn for the worse. Have you decided which route you want to take?

 

This guy is young (1.5") So my lighting may not be what's keeping him growing. Lol I don't know.

[Cameron6796]

Yeah probably the nutrients in the water and any other foods it my ingest

[jedimasterben]

Clams are 100% photosynthetic for their carbon needs from the time they settle and begin collecting zooxanthellae. Feeding them being necessary is a myth that was busted many years ago. As long as there is some DOC in the water, they have no need to filter anything other than to search for more zooxanthellae.

[MeepNand]

I read a study where clams don't need phyto, but they can use if they get it.

 

Clams are 100% photosynthetic for their carbon needs from the time they settle and begin collecting zooxanthellae. Feeding them being necessary is a myth that was busted many years ago. As long as there is some DOC in the water, they have no need to filter anything other than to search for more zooxanthellae.

[jedimasterben]

They may or may not. They've been found with whole/unprocessed phyto in their digestive tracts that they simply just poop right back out, but some with partially digested.

[flypenfly]

i think it would be a extraordinary claim to make that a full spectrum LED from Ecotech, AI, Orphek, Ecoxotic, etc couldn't sustain a Maxima clam. That doesn't seem to be based on any science or data.

[jedimasterben]

i think it would be a extraordinary claim to make that a full spectrum LED from Ecotech, AI, Orphek, Ecoxotic, etc couldn't sustain a Maxima clam. That doesn't seem to be based on any science or data.

It's not. lol

 

It's also not based on science to say that any light inside the photosytnetic action spectra wouldn't grow clams or coral. Some are more efficient for absorption, yes, but all will grow. I ran my 80g on ~150 watts of 5500K CFL for what, a month, and had good growth on everything I had.

[ZephNYC]

And awayyyy we goooooo -

I say clams dont UTILIZE phyto very much if at all. I have no proof but my belief is this. Clams are filter feeders, of course. SO what are they looking for specifically ??? The answer to that has been proven without doubt. Dissolved organics and ZOOXANTHELLAE. Zoox has a very special shape that "fits" and is consumed and fully utilized by clams. Phyto does not for the most part. Its like trying to fit a square peg in a circular hole. Some phyto will make it through if it has a close enough "shape" resembling Zoox. It has been proven Tetraselmis is the closest, and nanochloropsis may not be utilized at all and is too small. Dissolved organics are highly utilized. THis is why my favorite food for clams is Two Little Fishies Marine Snow. It is one of the few products designed for animals that consume dissolved organics.

[metrokat]

I was wondering if I should jump in this debate. I don't have a dog in this fight as they say. I don't even understand spectrums. Ima light dummy. Yup. That's me. But I can tell you what I have right now which keeps my little aquacultured maxima happy: a custom T5/full spectrum LED hybrid light.

 

i think it would be a extraordinary claim to make that a full spectrum LED from Ecotech, AI, Orphek, Ecoxotic, etc couldn't sustain a Maxima clam. That doesn't seem to be based on any science or data.

Flypen, did you type this as you were on your way to see me?! good luck with your new tank today.

[Steensj2004]

I feel as though people will always argue about stuff like this. What I am unable to understand, is that it takes X amount of wattage etc to grow a clam or coral, what difference does it make if you get it from MH, LED, or an orange?! My clam does GREAT under my Radion, people told me chalice corals won't do well under LEDs, mine thrive. I just see this as a giant you know what match, where its as useless as arguing politics. I've seen some of the most beautiful tanks under both types lights.

[TheKleinReef]

And awayyyy we goooooo -

I say clams dont UTILIZE phyto very much if at all. I have no proof but my belief is this. Clams are filter feeders, of course. SO what are they looking for specifically ??? The answer to that has been proven without doubt. Dissolved organics and ZOOXANTHELLAE. Zoox has a very special shape that "fits" and is consumed and fully utilized by clams. Phyto does not for the most part. Its like trying to fit a square peg in a circular hole. Some phyto will make it through if it has a close enough "shape" resembling Zoox. It has been proven Tetraselmis is the closest, and nanochloropsis may not be utilized at all and is too small. Dissolved organics are highly utilized. THis is why my favorite food for clams is Two Little Fishies Marine Snow. It is one of the few products designed for animals that consume dissolved organics.

 

I was thinking about using marine snow for coral/clam food. reading this just made me commit.

[jedimasterben]

Input wattage does not matter - optical wattage is what is needed. It's not easily measured, but PAR is (and is more precise to only what the can use, anyway).

[ZephNYC]

I was thinking about using marine snow for coral/clam food. reading this just made me commit.

try this..

when you want to feed your clams, mix MS with tank water and just pour it in and it should make a cloud of food. But if your intention is to feed SPS do this.

 

Suck up some MS in a thin pointed turkey baster or coral feeder and SLOWLY release it several inches in front of your power head or flow source. The flow has to be SLOW, so if its strong hold the baster a little farther away. WHen you get it just right the MS will form little flying carpets that will literally wrap around your SPS. It' awesomely insane if you do it correcty. I think Two Little Fishies (Sprung) is the leading name in coral supplements. I dont care what anyone says, nobody knows reefs better then Julian. End of strory.

[TheKleinReef]

try this..

when you want to feed your clams, mix MS with tank water and just pour it in and it should make a cloud of food. But if your intention is to feed SPS do this.

 

Suck up some MS in a thin pointed turkey baster or coral feeder and SLOWLY release it several inches in front of your power head or flow source. The flow has to be SLOW, so if its strong hold the baster a little farther away. WHen you get it just right the MS will form little flying carpets that will literally wrap around your SPS. It' awesomely insane if you do it correcty. I think Two Little Fishies (Sprung) is the leading name in coral supplements. I dont care what anyone says, nobody knows reefs better then Julian. End of strory.

 

thanks for the tips!

[Squamie91]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLH3TcHGOP4&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZLH3TcHGOP4 try panerama look what it did for this aquarium which used halides