DIY Oxydator experiment.

[albertthiel]

With all due respect though Albert, nothing has been documented except clear water, increased oxygen levels by inference of the breakdown of the stuff used in the oxydator. No papers published or otherwise, no oxygen levels before or after, and clearer water is in the eye of the beholder and the quality if glass and how clean it is too. Not a measurable number and certainly not a selling point in favor. Carbon gives me very clear water too.

 

I would be interested to read english documentation of oxygen levels.

 

As for it promoting macro algae growth, that has been my observation in my tank. I have a couple of pictures showing this. Conclusive? For me yes. Open to speculation? Yes. But open to being dismissed based on lack of documentation from others of my finding? No. Because very little if anything is documented about this device.

 

I have no doubt it does what you say it did for you, but did it remove your pest algae? It didn't for me or for Island of Tiki.

 

I specifically asked about its effect on macros, nitrates and phosphates from a few sources with no conclusive 'documented' evidence of any result. I was actually afraid it would kill my fuge macros.

 

So yeah, my results may not be documented, but if Island of Tiki would do me a favor and install his device so the pest algae is closest to it and see if it increases growth or kills it, maybe we will have more than just my observation.

 

I cannot argue with your points Kat as indeed I have not seen any technical papers either, so all we can do is relate our own experiences with it, but one point is that no one has ever said that its use is to eradicate nuisance algae, only that the algae that grows on the glass is greatly diminished as I have pointed out .... and that the water is crystal clear more so than when using carbon.

 

It certainly will not reduce macro algae growth, and that has not been said either ... but unfortunately since there is no technical documentation on all of its effects we could go back and forth and we would end up agreeing to disagree ...

 

I just want to point out that this device has been around for some 25+ years and still sells and is used widely in Europe and is used both in FW and SW tanks and so based on its longevity and wide use it has to produce positive results or no one would be using it and the company would be out of business.

 

So I take your statements as what your experiences were and have no argument with them ...

 

Pity that there is no authoritative documentation indeed. Oh well ... I guess maybe someone will research it more in detail one of these days ...

 

Thanks for your input. I will do some more searches on what has been documented but previous ones I did have not produced anything that both you and I would like to see ...

 

I would need to order it from them.

 

If there is no distributor in your area then yes I guess ...

[Islandoftiki]

From what I remember ( along time since college chem) I think what he means is that dissolved CO2 and O2 function independently from one another chemically in the water. In other words if the water is saturated with O2 it has nothing to do with how much CO2 is already in the water. For example in a container of water with no living organisms the presence of CO2 does not prevent O2 from dissolving into the water and vice-versa. In a system with living organisms the amount of CO2 that is in the water is related to atmospheric CO2 levels, water surface exchange, water temperature, animal/plant respiration/photosynthesis and whether there is an artificial filter removing the CO2 in the case of aquariums.

This article explains Henry's Law and equilibrium equations for CO2 and O2 in H2O:

http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/GenChem1/L23/web-L23.pdf

 

 

Thank you Albert, That's a great article.

[atoll]

I used a redox meter and a Dupla oxygen test kit over an entire weekend and recoded both a substantial increase in both using 2 Oxydator As in my 130 gallon reef system inc sump. I documented the effects of various % of peroxide and numbers of catalysts used. I have the results written down in a log but they are up in the attic of my property but difficult for me to get at. One day I must make the effort and retrieve them and publish them on nano reefs.

 

In my experiments I used up to 17% peroxide and 3 catalysts which was a step too far ( i felt I needed to take it to the limit to see how far I could push things before negative effects were observed) a H.magnifica anemone was the first to react negatively and turned itself inside out thankfully it made a full recovery. Anybody willing to climb into my attic is welcome to come and try and retrieve my log for me.

[albertthiel]

Here is a link to an interesting article but not a scientific one :

 

http://alvinchan80.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-91.html

 

And another one .. again not scientific but informational nevertheless

 

http://shrimpsider.wordpress.com/tag/sochting-oxydator/

 

 

And another one but this one is in German ... and quite detailed

 

http://mr-shrimp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=33:oxyshrimp-bastelanleitung&catid=7:berichte&Itemid=11

 

 

[eitallent]

Thank you Albert, That's a great article.

LOL That may have sounded like Albert but it was not.

 

I guess I have been positively influenced by hanging out on Albert's thread.

[albertthiel]

Thank you Albert, That's a great article.

 

It was eitallent's actually not mine ... but yes a great article ...

 

LOL That may have sounded like Albert but it was not.

 

I guess I have been positively influenced by hanging out on Albert's thread.

 

I appreciate it and I am sure so do other readers of the thread ... the hanging out .... Thanks eitallent ... you always have great stuff to share and so do many others on this entire forum ...

[Islandoftiki]

LOL That may have sounded like Albert but it was not.

 

I guess I have been positively influenced by hanging out on Albert's thread.

 

Doh. My bad. Credit where credit is due. Thank you eitallent. I'm getting old... losing my marbles.

[Acielot]

What exactly are the proposed benefits of this device. I think that so far I have heard reducing micro algae and getting clearer water as well as reducing stress on the fish.

 

 

Atoll mentioned that an overdose or something near its equivalent caused the anemone to react. Would it be caused by too high of O2 levels? Basically like H2O2 circulating through the tank.

 

 

 

And Tiki, are all those teal/green anemones majanos? They are pretty nice looking.

[atoll]

Here is a link to an interesting article but not a scientific one :

 

http://alvinchan80.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-91.html

 

 

And another one .. again not scientific but informational nevertheless

 

http://shrimpsider.wordpress.com/tag/sochting-oxydator/

 

 

 

And another one but this one is in German ... and quite detailed

 

http://mr-shrimp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=33:oxyshrimp-bastelanleitung&catid=7:berichte&Itemid=11

Interesting Albert and concurs with what we have both been saying and experiencing using Oxydator's. However 20 plus years using them here is hardly a recommendation and the results I have obtained in the 4 reef aquaria over that period could be incidental of course. However I hardly think that is the case as in the circumstances of each case and given the results of using Oxydators have all been very similar.

 

The release of O2 from my observations polishes the water removing or reacting with yellowing compounds. The clearer view is easy to see and measure using a white card placed on the rear of the tank or a plastic one within the tank with something written on in yellow indelible ink.

 

If you have an oxygen test kit you can measure the increase in O2 however IMO and IME all you need to do is use a redox meter given the close relationship between redox and O2 within the aquarium. Oxygen test kits are not the most reliable or accurate way to measure oxygen unless there has been a substantial increase in their reliability over the last 20 years which might well be the case. Of course you can buy oxygen meters but I have never used one so I have no idea just how reliable they maybe.

[atoll]

What exactly are the proposed benefits of this device. I think that so far I have heard reducing micro algae and getting clearer water as well as reducing stress on the fish.

 

 

Atoll mentioned that an overdose or something near its equivalent caused the anemone to react. Would it be caused by too high of O2 levels? Basically like H2O2 circulating through the tank.

 

 

 

And Tiki, are all those teal/green anemones majanos? They are pretty nice looking.

Think of using an Oxydator similar to using ozone. If you push it too far and supper supper saturate the water with activated O2 then as with O3 it needs to react with something if all the compounds like phenols have been oxidised then it will turn it's attention to whatever is next in line.

 

I can also report that you could as I have used a high % of peroxide in an oxydator and each time you refill the Oxydator nothing negative happens then one day you do indeed get a negative reaction even though the number of catalysts you are using are the same and the % of peroxide is also the same. The reason for this is that over a period of time the oxydator will reduce those compounds it reacts with to very low levels. The O2 produced will then look for the next in line to react with in my case my anemone. I have to say however you do have to push the limit and used at normal or slightly higher concentrations of peroxide I have never witnessed any negative reaction to my Oxydators.

[Acielot]

Think of using an Oxydator similar to using ozone. If you push it too far and supper supper saturate the water with activated O2 then as with O3 it needs to react with something if all the compounds like phenols have been oxidised then it will turn it's attention to whatever is next in line.

Okay, that makes sense. So what about the impellers in power heads and such. I would imagine that being exposed to both saltwater and elevated O2 levels would increase the amount of wear that they experience.

[albertthiel]

What exactly are the proposed benefits of this device. I think that so far I have heard reducing micro algae and getting clearer water as well as reducing stress on the fish.

 

 

Atoll mentioned that an overdose or something near its equivalent caused the anemone to react. Would it be caused by too high of O2 levels? Basically like H2O2 circulating through the tank.

 

 

 

And Tiki, are all those teal/green anemones majanos? They are pretty nice looking.

 

You may want to read the article links and the thread and also do a search on my thread for Oxydator and you will find a lot of info ...

 

In fact I'll do it ... and here is the link from the search done for Oxydator on my thread :

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

 

And if you have other questions post here or on mine and I am sure you'll get more answers ... islandoftiki started this thread but there are others (Les started one too) and this one seems to be getting a lot of good input and following ...

 

Thanks J.

[Islandoftiki]

 

And Tiki, are all those teal/green anemones majanos? They are pretty nice looking.

 

Here's a close up picture of them... and yes. Majanos. Hard to believe they're pests.

 

[atoll]

Okay, that makes sense. So what about the impellers in power heads and such. I would imagine that being exposed to both saltwater and elevated O2 levels would increase the amount of wear that they experience.

 

Good question,

I have never experienced any negative effects on any plastic items meant for the marine aquarium. No impeller failures etc no brittleness of any plastics and I have used many power filters, skimmers and power heads etc over the 20 -plus years I have used Oxydators. Of course peroxide is a bleach and if you can soak impellers and pumps in bleach then an Oxydator should have no adverse affect on them. I now used no more than 9/10%. peroxide in my Oxydator which I have used for many years now without a problem either with my pumps or my inverts.

[albertthiel]

Interesting Albert and concurs with what we have both been saying and experiencing using Oxydator's. However 20 plus years using them here is hardly a recommendation and the results I have obtained in the 4 reef aquaria over that period could be incidental of course. However I hardly think that is the case as in the circumstances of each case and given the results of using Oxydators have all been very similar.

 

The release of O2 from my observations polishes the water removing or reacting with yellowing compounds. The clearer view is easy to see and measure using a white card placed on the rear of the tank or a plastic one within the tank with something written on in yellow indelible ink.

 

If you have an oxygen test kit you can measure the increase in O2 however IMO and IME all you need to do is use a redox meter given the close relationship between redox and O2 within the aquarium. Oxygen test kits are not the most reliable or accurate way to measure oxygen unless there has been a substantial increase in their reliability over the last 20 years which might well be the case. Of course you can buy oxygen meters but I have never used one so I have no idea just how reliable they maybe.

 

Indeed as we know it does what we want it to do but it seems that there is some confusion with regard to algae and its effect on them. As I pointed out it is not meant to eradicate nuisance or other algae at all ... what we did mention is that the algae that may grow on the front glass of the tank and needs to be cleaned with algae scrubbers or a Magic Sponge/Eraser will not be needed anywhere near as often as when it is not used ... and that is as far as I remember the only reference to algae that we made ...

 

It obviously over saturates the water with oxygen which then escapes ... as indeed as was pointed out the amount of oxygen that the water can hold is pH and F dependent.

 

Anyway ... only through using it will those who do see the benefits I guess as there are no technical papers I can find that have more to day than what we wrote in the various threads ...

 

Albert

[Islandoftiki]

I think some people may be confused about the algae issue because I am monitoring the various pest algae and green cyano in my tank to determine if there is any change or reduction as a result of the oxydator.

[albertthiel]

Think of using an Oxydator similar to using ozone. If you push it too far and supper supper saturate the water with activated O2 then as with O3 it needs to react with something if all the compounds like phenols have been oxidised then it will turn it's attention to whatever is next in line.

 

I can also report that you could as I have used a high % of peroxide in an oxydator and each time you refill the Oxydator nothing negative happens then one day you do indeed get a negative reaction even though the number of catalysts you are using are the same and the % of peroxide is also the same. The reason for this is that over a period of time the oxydator will reduce those compounds it reacts with to very low levels. The O2 produced will then look for the next in line to react with in my case my anemone. I have to say however you do have to push the limit and used at normal or slightly higher concentrations of peroxide I have never witnessed any negative reaction to my Oxydators.

 

Sticking with the recommendations that Sochting makes though will not result in any negative effects. ...

 

But as with everything Murphy's Law applies ... tanks break, skimmers start foaming like crazy, fish die, corals perish, etc .... it happens and sometimes we do not understand why ..but nothing untoward has happened to my use of the Oxydator ...

[albertthiel]

Here's a close up picture of them... and yes. Majanos. Hard to believe they're pests.

 

 

Yes you are right ... they can look very appealing indeed .. pity that the can spread so fast and become pests for some. Great shot !

[Islandoftiki]

Yes you are right ... they can look very appealing indeed .. pity that the can spread so fast and become pests for some. Great shot !

 

We're a year later since I put them in the tank (maybe 25 of them) and they've only maybe increased in number by 30%. Most of them have just grown to maximum size and stayed there. They don't thrive in really clean water with no food. You can propagate them if you let the water get dirty and feed them though. One of the biggest problem with them in a normal reef tank is that they can move, and they can sting harder than most corals.

[albertthiel]

I think some people may be confused about the algae issue because I am monitoring the various pest algae and green cyano in my tank to determine if there is any change or reduction as a result of the oxydator.

 

It will IME get rid of the Cyanos but not other algae .... in fact once you have used it for a while they will not appear IME ... but nuisance algae and others like Bryopsis another nuisance one, no .... And it will IME not affect the growth of Macro-Algae. They will do just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

Good question,

I have never experienced any negative effects on any plastic items meant for the marine aquarium. No impeller failures etc no brittleness of any plastics and I have used many power filters, skimmers and power heads etc over the 20 -plus years I have used Oxydators. Of course peroxide is a bleach and if you can soak impellers and pumps in bleach then an Oxydator should have no adverse affect on them. I now used no more than 9/10%. peroxide in my Oxydator which I have used for many years now without a problem either with my pumps or my inverts.

 

 

 

Niether have I .... not sure why that would even happen .... as even those using ozone in their skimmers do not experience any adverse effects unless the ozone gets in the tank and affects the life forms but if well set up that should not happen ... FWIW

 

 

 

 

We're a year later since I put them in the tank (maybe 25 of them) and they've only maybe increased in number by 30%. Most of them have just grown to maximum size and stayed there. They don't thrive in really clean water with no food. You can propagate them if you let the water get dirty and feed them though. One of the biggest problem with them in a normal reef tank is that they can move, and they can sting harder than most corals.

 

 

 

Thanks for that clarification ... I have not attempted to keep them and have not had any in my 20 so your input of your experience with them is appreciated.

 

Thanks ....

[zemuss]

So.. the investigator is back at it.. yes that would be me. So i found that while raising my light the steal cable, which holds the left side of my sunpod mh 250, was in the sump. Yea this could be causing my corals to be unhappy.

 

Still aiming for a 8.2 PH lol.. Now where did I pump that reactor? hmmm..

[albertthiel]

So.. the investigator is back at it.. yes that would be me. So i found that while raising my light the steal cable, which holds the left side of my sunpod mh 250, was in the sump. Yea this could be causing my corals to be unhappy.

 

Still aiming for a 8.2 PH lol.. Now where did I pump that reactor? hmmm..

 

Well glad you found as if there was stray voltage that would affect the corals for sure ... I use a platinum probe to ground the tank ...

[brandon429]

If you get no reduction off the oxydator can we please attack it with a short drain and treat using regular peroxide that green hair algae bush is a blight in a freakishly nice tank but im algae ocd heh

[albertthiel]

If you get no reduction off the oxydator can we please attack it with a short drain and treat using regular peroxide that green hair algae bush is a blight in a freakishly nice tank but im algae ocd heh

 

+1 ... You are the expert on that one Brandon ... so shoot the instructions on here for those who want to try that approach ....

[albertthiel]

If you get no reduction off the oxydator can we please attack it with a short drain and treat using regular peroxide that green hair algae bush is a blight in a freakishly nice tank but im algae ocd heh

You may want to outline the spot treatment approach