Amphiprion1 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 This is a step up from the 25g I had. All my Halophila seagrass died at once, causing massive fouling of the sand bed. Nothing else really died (turtle grass thrived, actually), but it was nasty. I had just managed to fight off cyanobacteria and this put the nail in the coffin. It was never right again after that. So, I looked to the 40g I had in storage... For some background, the tank will feature some coral and plenty of seagrass. I'm hoping for some hardier, fast growing corals for the rock structure. I'm thinking something like a staghorn species, a branching and plating Montipora species, or maybe a Heliopora/blue ridge in place of the branching Montipora. Had a huge one of those in my old 75 and I loved it. May have a sand dwelling anemone on the far side and possibly a few scattered larger polyped corals here and there. It will be comparatively sparse, but I'm hoping to grow larger, mature corals instead of the assortment, so to speak. This also will not be a designer-style tank with every color and named coral known to man. I won't be paying for those, unfortunately. As the tank has matured and survived, it has taken on its own shape and form and is pretty similar to what I was originally trying to emulate. It was meant to emulate a patch reef near or within a seagrass bed in a back reef area. It looks pretty close to what I've seen in Caribbean patch reefs. Hence the thread name change . Okay, some specs on the tank: Equipment: 40g breeder @ 36" x 18" x 17" display tank 2 - 250w XM 10K SE lamps, one in LumenMax Elite and one in Hamilton Cayman Sun pendants 1 - Vortech MP40w ES 1 - Vortech MP10w ES in anti-sync slave mode 1 - Bubble Magus Curve 7 protein skimmer (currently offline) 3 - LiterMeter III --consisting of 1 main pump and 2 remote modules for dosing/top-off Aquascaping materials: 30lbs aquacultured live rock from gulfliverock 50 lbs live sand + 80 lbs asst. dry sand for seagrass, variety of sizes--primarily <1mm Additives: Currently dosing DIY 2-part bicarbonate version to offset pH increase from CO2 utilization, as pH gets high. Magnesium is gradually dosed via top-off, also using DIY recipe. Seagrasses: Thalassia testudinum Corals: Montipora sp. Plerogyra sinuosa Cladocora arbuscula Siderastrea Manicina areolata Other invertebrates: Trochus sp. Cerithidae Holothuridae +numerous other species from rock Fishes: Amphiprion ocellaris (pair) Pterapogon kauderni Ecsenius stigmatura Obligatory updated FTS: Scrubber is the only filtration--may later include skimmer, as I've found it helps with the heavy amount of organic carbon seagrasses create. It consists of a 9"x10" screen lit by 2-40w CFLs, all fed from my overflow. Scrubber worked great until dinoflagellate infestation. When they covered the filamentous algae on the screens, it sloughed off and made an even bigger mess/issue. Protein skimmer in use ever since. I now rely on seagrass growth and occasional GFO to address nutrients. Now for the pics, in rough order: Leak test: Rough 'scape with about the same amount of overall rock that will be in the tank, maybe a very small amount more. More of a mock-up than anything: Filling it up: Couldn't resist turning the lamp on to see how it would look: Minus the trash bag: Got some nice live rock with an amazing surprise to complete my collection: No big deal, right. Hey, it will only set me back a few months as far as letting my fish go. So, here it is as of a couple of days ago. My poor fish are staying in the breeder nets, but doing well. I'm hoping they can be released in several weeks to a month, as I haven't seen anymore isopods after removing 70+ individuals from only 10 lbs of rock (!!!). Update: been living with these ever since. I had dramatically reduced population. They have never been found on fish and no lesions have been observed that would indicate them feeding on fish. Banggai cardinalfish loves to eat them and actively waits for them to start snacking on pellets before pouncing. Loving these 10K lamps--it gives it an incredibly natural look. No pics of the scrubber just yet, as it is unproductive at the moment. Scrubber taken offline after dinoflagellate bloom. There is very little input into the tank, which is slowing it down. I would pick up the feeding pace, but I don't want to feed the cirolanids, either. Any and all food stays in those little breeding nets and is eaten promptly. Anyway, let me know what you guys think. I'm hoping this will be a successful long term setup, which is one reason I've ditched the smaller, faster growing seagrasses, which crashed my last system. The turtle grass and shoal grass grows substantially slower, so I'm hoping that will do the trick. 2 Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Update: Turtle grass looking a little rough. May have to add a very small quantity of root tabs for it--like many fractions of a single tab, since it contains ammonium. The leaves are yellowed a good bit, at least older ones, anyway. I'm looking for signs of new ones starting to yellow. In any case, I'm expecting to lose at least one or two shoots, since I broke the rhizome off completely on 2 of them like a klutz. If I can managed to save 2-3 of them, they will recover just fine and repopulate. For better news, I got a few little corals today as a litmus test. Nothing fancy, just branching Montipora and Pocillopora frags that I may not even keep in the long run. The Montipora wasn't in the best shape to start with, but looks okay, while the Pocillopora seems completely unfazed and unconcerned. The tank has little to no algal growth in the display, partially thanks to the scrubber, so I'm not worried about that. What I am worried about is the intensity of the lighting I have (2-250w 10K halides) vs. the dim conditions the corals came from--basically med. low-end LED fixtures that were raised about 3 ft. from the surface to give better spread. I may have to move the frags into the shadows a bit if I notice them lightening up on me. No pics right now, but I will update a bit later with some of the new pieces. Also got LiterMeter III running fully. It is currently dosing the tank with 25% strength kalkwasser as top off (but more controlled than an auto top-off). I will adjust the dose accordingly, as it may not even need the 25%. Link to comment
SeahawkReefer Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Aaahh! Isopods! Other than those nasty buggers, the tank looks good, I've always liked the grassy look... following along Link to comment
Subsea Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I also like your choice of light coloring. At present, I am using horticulture T5 lamps in a 1:1 ratio with 5400 kelvin and 10K kelvin. It produces pheonominal growth in macro and corals. I have not ventured into true marine plants. Good luck on the Turtle Grass. I think I will try Oar Grass when I do start. At present C. Prolifera is imatating oar grass in my lagoon. Link to comment
rb1685 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I really like the look of the turtle grass. I recently did some snorkeling in Mexico, and it makes me want to have a more "natural-looking" reef. I also have a 40B in storage. Following. 1 Link to comment
Subsea Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 He Bellville, Texas. You are not too far from Austin. Come this way, April 7, for my grande opening and eat boiled crawfish. I have focused on macro lagoons in my tank methods I have five lagoon biothems in my main living room. I will coming on line in April with 5K growout under a 20' by 36' greenhouse. La bonne temps roulee, Patrick Castille Mgr, AqucultureRanch, LLC Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 I really like the look of the turtle grass. I recently did some snorkeling in Mexico, and it makes me want to have a more "natural-looking" reef. I also have a 40B in storage. Following. That's essentially what I want for this tank. I've been to a good number of grass beds (local and Caribbean) and adjacent reefs, so that is the general theme I'd like to replicate--except I'm pretending I have Thalassia hemprichii instead of the T. testudinum in there now, since most other stock will be Pacific-based. Other people strive for coral color, etc., while I strive for the "natural look" I've seen in the wild and to replicate it closely, but that's subjective. I will also tweak the rock structure to an even more natural arrangement after I'm rid of the cirolanids, since I end up throwing the rocks around to catch them. On that same note, I caught some cirolanids in broad daylight this evening. I'm hoping that means they are getting desperate... I was unable to find any roaming around after lights out and in the food trap. A mini update on the test corals. The Montipora and Pocillopora look great and coralline is starting to grow, but the leather is hating life right now. It has completely slumped and looks pretty sad. If its condition worsens, I'll have to remove it and give it away. I'm hoping the reaction is just a shedding event and nothing too serious. It is in slightly subdued light (not quite shadowed) and moderate flow to help with expansion. Either way, only time will tell. I'll try to get some more pics this weekend, including some of the scrubber. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ugh, no pics because somehow the water flow managed to find a pocket of fiji mud. Needless to say, the tank is completely cloudy and there's little I can do about it, since the mud particles are so fine. It is looking a bit clearer today and nothing is worse for wear as a result, but it's annoying. Everything is progressing fairly well, otherwise. Old Thalassia leaves are dying, which I expected, but new ones are sprouting. Also, harpaticoids have exploded. There are thousands upon thousands, so it is apparently going through a little bloom of them. I know the quantities won't be permanent, but I do hope to maintain a little standing population of them, as it would go a long way in preserving a natural food chain. Interestingly enough, the fish breeder nets seem to be what is sustaining them. I feed my fish Ocean Nutrition pellets and the harpacticoids eat the remains. I can tell it's them eating it because the little guys turn bright pink/red, basically the same color as the pellets. On the isopod front, I did find a very small individual this evening, but I was unable to catch the little bugger. That's the first one I've seen in days, so that is at least a slightly good sign. The fact that I'm seeing ones that small may be a harbinger of things to come, though, so I'm bracing myself for another spike in their numbers as little ones develop. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Pics to follow. Lost a good number of seagrass leaves, as expected. Still watching, but I have some Flourish tabs ready if new growth starts to look bad. Anyway, I'll let the pics talk: Obligatory FTS: Left side w/ new digitata, showing a bit of growth already: Right side w/ Pocillopora: Close-up of Pocillopora, which suddenly started getting pink tips a few days ago. White base is from using fire... on some hitchhiking Aiptasia... and I clumsily burnt away some tissue: Still nothing nice, but I really just want a very small number of corals to grow into larger colonies. It will definitely take time and that's not even factoring in what corals I'll actually decide to keep in the long run. Tank is staying squeaky-clean and I haven't even wiped the glass yet. There are a few random patches of hair algae in the back glass, though. The carbon I added last week is keeping things nice and clear, keeping the halide from looking too yellow. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 you need more rock Lol, there will be more, but very little more. I do not want much rock at all, since the tank will mostly be seagrasses, which don't need it. I have to get rid of the cirolanids first before I add more rock though, because that just provides more hiding places. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Yeah, updates are sorely needed. I do have updates, just not good ones. I've been asking around trying to find some answers, but I'm stumped and so is everyone else. Anyway, so I am running a algal scrubber, as anyone who started following knows. Well, for whatever reason, it suddenly decided to turn to mush one day late last week. No idea why. Suggestions that it may have been one of the lights going out or power outages were all reasonable, but not the case. The bulbs were just changed and I confirmed they worked just fine. I also have various clocks, UPSs, etc. that would be blinking (or logging data to my PC) in the event the power went out for any significant amount of time. Well, when the said scrubber turned to mush, it quite literally nuked the tank. All but one of the starter corals are now toast--orange Montipora is still alive. The Pocillopora STNd almost immediately after a water change, which I am guessing is because of the additional stress of a large water change combined with pure gunk. I siphoned the sludge that had formed overnight in the sump as well. The screen became completely covered in cyanobacteria overnight and so did everything else in the tank. Fish and seagrass are fine, though. Fish don't seem to care and seagrass is loving life, lol. Corals are screaming in an agonizing death, though. I know the tank will recover and so will the scrubber, but the dead corals likely won't, which is upsetting. So that was my weekend in a nutshell and, as one may imagine, I'm not terribly happy about this. Despite all of this, though, I'm hoping to possibly find some answers as to why the scrubber suddenly kicked the bucket. Lots of theories, of course, but has anyone else had this happen, say, overnight? Ideas? Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Update, but no pics, since there isn't much to photograph anymore Anyway, a few months ago, something was sprayed around the tank (thinking it was air freshener/Lysol) that caused a very swift and sudden die-off. I nearly lost my fish during all of this, too. Needless to say, the corals and inverts were a very quick casualty. There was little life left when all was said and done, though things have recovered substantially. Only my fish and turtle grass managed to survive, btw. In addition to that and, oddly enough, whatever got into the water killed off my algal scrubber almost instantly. The entire mass turned white shortly after other things died and it completely sloughed off. I did a couple of very large water changes and ran carbon while waiting for the scrubber to recover. Well, guess what? It never did. I have no idea why, either. In fact, every last piece of filamentous algae in the tank died and was replaced with a 1/4" thick blanket of dinoflagellates. We're talking golden brown scum in massive quantities, apparently fueled by the mass death of the scrubber. I cleaned the screen of this stuff countless times, which only grew back within a couple of days. After nearly a month of battling the dinoflagellates on the scrubber and suffocating everything in the tank, I took the scrubber offline completely. This, by itself naturally did nothing to help, so I added a skimmer I had and ran it for another month or so. Still nothing putting a dent in the brown scourge. I then decided to essentially nuke the tank with an organic carbon source in the form of vinegar, which I added to my kalkwasser. After steadily ramping up the vinegar dosage, I hit a point that essentially killed the tiny bit of remaining coral, but also caused the dinoflagellates to simply flake away and die. That's the point where I am now. I've essentially killed off 95% of the dinoflagellates that were in the tank and can even see my rocks and coralline again. Fish are still alive and seemingly well, but no corals nor inverts remain, except for the occasional amphipod or fireworm. The seagrasses crack me up, though, in that the turtle grass put out shoots and grew as if nothing ever happened. So for now, I am going to stay the course until everything clears up and at that point, I'll likely ramp down the organic carbon addition. I'll also eventually get another scrubber running to hopefully deal with at least part of the load. Looking into the future, I may employ a hybrid methodology combining light organic carbon usage along with a skimmer and scrubber. If that is too much, I can tweak many variables to get the desired effect (less vinegar, less skimming, and/or less light to the scrubber). I don't doubt that the scrubber could handle the job by itself (since I've done it before), but because of the problems that arose after it died and was recolonized by a highly competitive organism (pretty much halting effectiveness and providing a great spot for dinos to thrive), it may be a good idea to have a fallback. At the very least, a skimmer and carbon dosing could've picked up the slack in the aftermath which would've lessened the severity of the whole thing, I think. The same would apply if, for instance, a skimmer broke, where the scrubber could increase growth and deal with a bit of extra dissolved nutrients. I think having a bit of variety can only help in such circumstances considering how things can be unpredictable. Anyway, the tank is slowly recovering and I plan to add a bit of a diversity boost in the next month or so. Hopefully it will be ready for new animals by the fall or possibly a bit sooner depending upon how busy I am. I'll keep everything updated as time allows. Edit: wtf? Where are my paragraphs? They are there when I edit... Nm, they are back. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Long needed update. Tank took a few steps forward and a giant leap backward as dinoflagellates surged back, killing most invertebrates and leaving a tub of snot. I essentially broke down portions of the tank and shut the lights off. A couple days later, I convinced myself not to quit and just kept the lights off with just about nothing left to lose. I siphoned off all visible dinos through a fine filter sock, ran GFO and a filter socks inline constantly. I also overdosed algaefix marine by approx 1.5x. In all, I kept lights off for 10 days in addition to above steps. I turned on the lights and waited 2 weeks before attempting a water change. I changed the water and..... nothing happened for once . No surge or even a trace of dinoflagellates and I only had a very minor hair algae outbreak after all was said and done. It's been about 6-7 weeks since and things are attempting to rebound. The only thing that still needs to be done is change the 18+ month old halide bulbs, which are arriving this week. Anyway, a couple unflattering iPhone pics to follow. Keep in mind most of these poor corals had little to almost no living tissue left after all was done, especially yellow Porites. It has made extreme progress in a short time. Seagrass, primarily Thalassia, shrugged everything off as if nothing ever changed. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 Well, got the new bulbs in yesterday evening. The SE halide was a snap to install, but then the DE happened. I completely shattered the new bulb when trying to install it. I tried to install the old one and it seemingly worked. I fired the thing up and was startled to hear it shatter, too. This led to a frantic, frustrated rush to the LFS to get a new fixture . Luckily I happened to spot a nice Lumen Max Elite pendant for $45, with everything intact, minus a ballast, which I already had. Now I just need a new SE bulb and everything should be good to go. Link to comment
neuwave Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Glad to see your still up and running. Would be sweet to see the sea grass grow in nice and full. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share Posted June 15, 2014 Glad to see your still up and running. Would be sweet to see the sea grass grow in nice and full. Thanks! Has been a long, uphill battle, but it seems like it is trying to pay off. If it can remain stable and stay the course, I think it will eventually look pretty spectacular--or at least that is what I'm hoping. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hmm, dinoflagellates have made a small comeback. Taking preventative measures now, including a full blackout again. Interestingly, it coincided with have some sand disturbed, which matches well with some others' experiences. Either the sand fees up nutrients, or dinoflagellates were primarily concentrated in the sand. The latter seems to be more likely, since one would think the former would result in more typical algae growing. Quite the opposite, actually. Other types died very quickly and were replaced by dinoflagellates. I also think something they secrete, maybe an organic carbon byproduct, spurs the growth of cyanobacteria. Nutrient levels were actually higher several weeks ago. They fell to very low levels, other algae declined, then dinoflagellates grew. Cyanobacteria followed a while after.... Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That is both the beauty and horror of dinoflagellates - they grow basically unhindered in lower nutrient environments, so algae and other bacteria take the nutrients until they are lower and then dinoflagellates quickly multiply and take their place. I can tell you that unfortunately blackouts will not solve your problems - dinos can live for months without light, a couple people on a large thread on RC have tested this, and under a microscope the water is still chock full of them, happy as clams. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't doubt that and part of it was my fault for not feeding for a handful of days. As many can resort to heterotrophy, it seems even more plausible that a sand bed can act as a nice refuge for them in lean/aphotic times. I don't think they'll ever be something I'll be rid of completely, but I may be able to have other algae outcompete them as long as I can keep nutrients ever so slightly elevated. I do think blackouts can be a tool to keep them controlled and allow algae to gain a more competitive edge. It worked this last time around until the algae died off when nutrients dropped. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well, time to turn the lights back on as of today. I'm going to allow anything other than dinoflagellates to grow unhindered. Or, more accurately, I'm not going to deliberately reduce nutrients to stop it. I know allowing other algae the opportunity to grow seems to work, outcompeting dinoflagellates, so I'm going to give that another shot. Link to comment
Amphiprion1 Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Okay, time for some updated pics with the new lamps. FTS: Pink Pocillopora trying to be pink: Some kind of "millepora" type Acropora on the cheap: Partially dead tricolor, also cheap: Everything is reacting favorably and I am hoping I get something other than brown from the new pieces. They have a lot of promise, I think. Link to comment
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