Seachem Phosguard vs BRS GFO

[flypenfly]

Assuming the same price (which is what it goes for) which would be better at removing phosphates? This won't be run in a reactor.

[jedimasterben]

If you are not running in a reactor, get Phosguard.

[seabass]

If you are not running in a reactor, get Phosguard.

I agree, GFO will just clump up if its not tumbling in a reactor. Phosguard works fine, but it's aluminum based. There has been some concern about aluminum based phosphate removers; however, I've used the product years ago without any noticeable ill effects.

[--chris--]

I agree, GFO will just clump up if its not tumbling in a reactor. Phosguard works fine, but it's aluminum based. There has been some concern about aluminum based phosphate removers; however, I've used the product years ago without any noticeable ill effects.

 

Im with you as far as aluminum based removers are concerned. Much to do, about a almost nothing.

[Bill Nye]

I have been using phosguard and have noticed impressive improvements in my acro. Some people claim LPS and softies can be affected by it but I have not seen anything like that. I was thinking of switching to GFO because I read that phosguard can't lower phosphates as low as an iron oxide but if you need a reactor to use it im just going to stick with phosguard I guess.

[PiscesBoy]

Seachem has done a study on the effects of the aluminum based Phosguard. There aren't any detrimental effects to the aquarium. I'd go with the Phosguard if you're not using the reactor either.

[phineous]

Phosguard works fine if you rinse off the dust before you put it in the tank. You'll need to test for phosphates often because it'll get saturated and need replacement.

Order your Phosguard online and in large quantities. It's much cheaper and always about 2x as expensive at the LFS.

I run BRS HC GFO in a media bag and it works fine for me. You'll also want to rinse off the dust before you put it in the tank. I run it in the top of my filter tray so I can remove it easily. I've got a candy cane that gets pissed if phos is too low. The HC GFO will strip phos quick.

Buy BRS HC GFO on a group buy and split it up with your friends. You can also call your LFSs and see if they buy in bulk and sell small amounts. Don't pay a high price for a brand name, it's all the same rust. A little goes a long way, use about half what BRS recommends to start. You can regenerate it in a couple of ways once it's saturated and use it again.

[mcarroll]

Ditto to most everything that's been said. Without a reactor you'll have to use a less granular GFO to get any good flowthrough and avoid clumping. FWIW, GFO does have a depressing effect on alkalinity. IMO, PhosGaurd (spherical) is really a superior solution in your case.

 

IME PhosGaurd is much more "aggressive" than GFO at removing phosphates to the point that in a system with high phosphates, it can lower the concentration so fast that corals will have a bad reaction up to and including RTN. (I can't exactly explain why this happens, but I've seen and heard of it happening more than several times.) Seachem hints as much in not so many words in the product instructions - "Over treating is not recommended.[....]Continuous use of small quantities is better than intermittent use of larger quantities." I'd be sure to follow instructions to a tee when you're starting out with it.

 

-Matt

[flypenfly]

Thanks, hmm I'll have to take a look at this again but I loaded a Rowaphos small in my canister filter (cleaned out monthly in a coral only tank). I did this upon the recommendation of a LFS employee who actually has a degree in marine biology.

 

I currently have a fish only system I'm getting ready for coral so maybe I'll try the seachem solution in that one to compare.

[Bill Nye]

I bet it gets alot of flow in a canister filter so it probably will work well. I have heard bad things about canister filters in general with reef tanks but have no experience with them so Im glad its working out for you.

 

 

Also not to be a dick but I wouldn't take any LFS employees opinion without researching online. Last time I checked there isnt a Rowaphos 101 class on the course catalog but I could be wrong....

[flypenfly]

Yeah I did some research online before I put it in the system and it seems most people have had a positive experience with it.

[metrokat]

Phosguard works fine if you rinse off the dust before you put it in the tank. You'll need to test for phosphates often because it'll get saturated and need replacement. Order your Phosguard online and in large quantities. It's much cheaper and always about 2x as expensive at the LFS. I run BRS HC GFO in a media bag and it works fine for me. You'll also want to rinse off the dust before you put it in the tank. I run it in the top of my filter tray so I can remove it easily. I've got a candy cane that gets pissed if phos is too low. The HC GFO will strip phos quick. Buy BRS HC GFO on a group buy and split it up with your friends. You can also call your LFSs and see if they buy in bulk and sell small amounts. Don't pay a high price for a brand name, it's all the same rust. A little goes a long way, use about half what BRS recommends to start. You can regenerate it in a couple of ways once it's saturated and use it again.

How do you regenerate GFO?

 

Ditto to most everything that's been said. Without a reactor you'll have to use a less granular GFO to get any good flowthrough and avoid clumping. FWIW, GFO does have a depressing effect on alkalinity. IMO, PhosGaurd (spherical) is really a superior solution in your case. IME PhosGaurd is much more "aggressive" than GFO at removing phosphates to the point that in a system with high phosphates, it can lower the concentration so fast that corals will have a bad reaction up to and including RTN. (I can't exactly explain why this happens, but I've seen and heard of it happening more than several times.) Seachem hints as much in not so many words in the http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/PhosGuard.html'>product instructions - "Over treating is not recommended.[....]Continuous use of small quantities is better than intermittent use of larger quantities." I'd be sure to follow instructions to a tee when you're starting out with it. -Matt

Matt, phosphates are also needed as building blocks by corals. Over saturation of phosphates in the tank leads to several undesirable things, including bad algae, browning of SPS. If too much phosphate remover is used, the resultant shock to the system is a starvation response and corals can RTN. Basically you just took their nutrient source away. That is why it is recommended to start slow and ramp up the phosphate remover, whatever kind.

[phineous]

How do you regenerate GFO?

 

From what I've read, only the HC GFO (darker in color and bigger chunks) should be regenerated. BRS has pictures of their two qualities of GFO that show the difference. People have said that finer GFO breaks down during regeneration and is too fine to use again. I suspect that the finer, lighter colored GFO is actually regenerated HC GFO from another process, possibly to remove arsenic from drinking water.

 

One method uses vinegar and lye.

 

I bookmarked another method that I think used hydrogen peroxide and RODI, but I can't find it right now. I'll edit this post when I find it. Sorry, the thread was about regenerating DI resin.

[flypenfly]

The media costs are so inexpensive relative to livestock and time investments that I don't think it's ever really worth the risk of screwing something up. At least I felt that way about things like purigen which requires bleach.

[phineous]

I use hydrogen peroxide to regenerate purigen. Works great, costs nothing, no risk.

[metrokat]

I just regenerated 2 bags of purigen. piece of cake. I used bleach every 3 days on my filter socks.

[Reefer82]

I've used purigen for years, fw and sw tanks. Works great. Phosguard has been in every reef tank I've owned as well. No issues. I buy it by the liter typically as its a much better price that way.

[AZDesertRat]

It has been demonstrated in the drinking water industry that aluminum based medias release contaminants when they are spent unlike ferric or iron based medias which do not. All of these medias that we use in the hobby came out of the drinking water industry where they have been in use for decades. Whether most of us leave it in our systems long enough to be a problem is the issue here.

 

Aluminum based media works quicker than iron based media. My personal thoughts though are all good things take time and I don't want things to happen quickly in my reef systems so I prefer iron based media, usually in the pelletized form so it does not clump up, either in a bag in the midded HOB AC 500 on my nano or in a reactor on my 100G. I am also lazy about changes and maintenance so if I forget it is not going to release the spent up contaminants.

[Chicane]

If I'm using Purigen and Phosguard, due I also need to run a carbon?I'm currently using Purigen and Sea Chem Matrix, but was looking to add

Phosguard. Should I use all 3 or only 2 at a time?

[seabass]

I'd mix some Phosguard with the Matrix (that's what their Seagel product is comprised of). Do you need all three, maybe not. You might be able to do without one or more of these different chemical filter medias. Just follow the directions for the Phosguard. Use small amounts and change it out frequently. And keep testing phosphate (it should be 0.03ppm or less). If the phosphate level starts to go up when using Phosguard, it needs replaced.

[Chicane]

 

I'd mix some Phosguard with the Matrix (that's what their Seagel product is comprised of). Do you need all three, maybe not. You might be able to do without one or more of these different chemical filter medias. Just follow the directions for the Phosguard. Use small amounts and change it out frequently. And keep testing phosphate (it should be 0.03ppm or less). If the phosphate level starts to go up when using Phosguard, it needs replaced.

I will try mixing the 2. Thank you

[Jeradmccarty]

Assuming the same price (which is what it goes for) which would be better at removing phosphates? This won't be run in a reactor.

 

Well I've been reading a bit from this topic, and I just want to put in my two cents. I have been running a phosban 150 reactor for about a year now and I originally used two little fishies phosban GFO, it was such a pain in the ass up to measure out, rinse out get it in the reactor adjust the flow all the time to a slow tumble and I said #### it! I only have a 20 long so I buy the single bag of phosgaurd that treats up to 30 gallons and I think it's like 6.99 at my lfs, I take it out of the bag and put it right into my phosban reactor and turn that sucker up on max flow because it doesn't float around like GFO and it stays put at the bottom. It has done wonders on my tank for keeping phosphates and silicates out my tank and have never in the whole time I've been using it ever had a bad reaction in my tank and I have a mixed reef, I have a little but of everything except leathers. I called seachem to ask if I could use it in a reactor and they said it would be perfect for that because you can get maximum flow through the phosgaurd media, the gentleman I spoke to said the faster and more flow through the media the better so I crank it up and it works wonders at keeping algae gone. The phosban GFO still didn't get rid of everything I wanted to keep out in my tank but I wouldn't say it was bad, just not as effective as the phosgaurd in my opinion. I know this is an old thread but I thought I would still say something. Thanks

[hypostatic]

Don't pay a high price for a brand name, it's all the same rust.

 

Haha, literally.

 

I've run GFO in a cheap $20 canister filter with excellent results FWIW

[flypenfly]

I've found phosguard overall to be more effective at rapidly bringing down po4 but it also exhausts a bit faster and it loves flow. Just make sure it does not tumble. I use it on a media tray and flip it every few days to expose new areas.

 

The total amount of po4 removed may be the same.

 

Whatever you do, make sure to thoroughly rinse with rodi many many times before use.

[tibbsy07]

Phosguard is an aluminum oxide removal media, which has a higher binding affinity for phosphates. It doesn't leech. GFO will leech phosphates back if left too long. Phosguard is more expensive than GFO, and GFO has a great reputation. I didn't have a reactor for my GFO, though, so it didn't work for me. Phosguard did, so that is what I use (plus I only need small amounts now, so it works best).

 

Either will work fine, GFO is probably cheaper in the long run. Some suggest that Phosguard leeches aluminum into the water, but I think it's debatable, still. I'd go with GFO for ease of use and cost - even if it leeches phosphates back into the water, a GFO change out will bind it back up.