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DIY Custom, Shallow Sump.


Veng

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So I figured I'd condense everything into a single post now that this build is complete. If you've got any questions about it, let me know and I'll be glad to answer them.

 

So, the idea for this sump was born after I cracked a 10 gallon tank that I was going to use for a simple sump. The sump is very non-normal because of it's location. The tank this sump goes on is a 20L and the sump sit directly behind it on the same granite counter top.

 

Here's a picture of the temporary sump after I cracked the 10 gallon to give you an idea of where it goes. And yes, that's ghetto, but it was far better than the cracked 10 gallon that was there a few hours before I installed that.

 

 

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So I started planning and came up with this:

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I would have an acrylic sump that would have a built in ATO reservoir, and because it was shallow and always filled within a fraction of an inch of the top to maximize the water depth (only about 7") I added a small water tight section between the two that would give me about a gallon of breathing room if I had an overflow before it started coming out of the sump and onto the ground, well counter top then ground.

 

In the picture above were three baffles, but I decided I only needed two. I decided that by only ordering 2 baffles by mistake. No matter, it turned out well in the end.

 

I had the acrylic cut by a local shop for the same as it would have cost me to buy it at home depot and cut it my self. I was hoping the edges would come extremely clean this way, but they still needed touching up, but I couldn't wait I had to see how it would look so I taped it all up.

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Luckily I have a jointer so this was an easy task after a quick jig was made. I can't take credit for this, I found a picture of this jig online and copied it. It is INCREDIBLY handy for this. I ended up having no leaks on the first water test, so I can't speak highly enough of having a jointer to help.

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It was time to start putting it together! The glue (weldone #4) is pretty much the consistency of water. You use a needle like applicator and just run it down the seam and capillary action sucks it into the seam. It's really neat.

 

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After the first one was done, it was just a matter of being patient and waiting for the glue to gain strength before adding more panels. The red clamps were 3$ at harbor freight. They also have a 10$ version that's much nicer. If I had bigger panels I would go with 2 of the 10$s over 4 of the smaller ones, but with this sized panels these worked fine. Having more just saves you time.

 

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And with that the "frame" was complete!

 

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And it didn't even leak!

 

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However, the build was far from done. There was still the lid to cut and build. It would need holes for wires (lots of wires!) and inflow and out flows.

 

From the left to the right, along the bottom are holes for the check valve on the return line, the overflow pipe into the sump, pump wire hole, and finally a hole to refill the ATO with. Along the top is a place for a tube to come out of the ATO and into the main section with an air gap to prevent siphoning. I'd later add more holes for the float switches.

 

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Quick side bar. Don't try to heat acrylic to bend it into anything that looks nice. It can be bent rather easily with a blow torch, but you'll probably bubble the surface if you aren't careful. It also doesn't cool quickly, and it doesn't heat evenly so making nice perfectly round things is hard. This was my attempt at a round viewer, and a square out of some scrap acrylic.

 

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Back to the sump!

 

So there are 4 float switches that all run to an Apex, from left to right,

 

Sump low - Tturns on ATO

 

Emergency overflow - If the switch floats (i.e. water in sump), forces the return pump on, overriding everything else and sounds alarms and sends me a text message

 

ATO Low - Prevents the ATO pump from coming on and send a text message

 

ATO High - Shuts off an outlet that I plug a pump into when refilling the ATO. It prevents accidentally over filling the ATO reservoir

 

The float switches came with some ugly black plastic tabs, which in hind sight I realized I could have ordered them without them but oh well. So I made some out of clear acrylic so they wouldn't stick out. The only down side was the float switches are 1/8 NPT threaded which is pretty much impossible to find a tap for locally. I simply drilled a slightly undersized hole and threaded them in and it works well enough.

 

I also made a probe and heater holder out of the same stuff. I added some plastic nylon thumb screws to secure the probes and the heater.

 

I attached these using super glue (cyanoacrylate), which works really well for sticking them in and holding them on.

 

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And with that, there was nothing left to do than install it and enjoy!

 

 

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I'm planning to buy a wooden bread box and cut it up and put all of this inside of it.

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(ATO side is full of bubbles still, :lol:)

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Question for you. Did you have any problems with those screw in NPT fittings leaking on the back of the tank!

 

Is that a anti syphon on the return pump? Will the sump hold enough water from the display till the siphon breaks at the locline?If not I would lift the locline a few inches.

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Question for you. Did you have any problems with those screw in NPT fittings leaking on the back of the tank!

 

Is that a anti syphon on the return pump? Will the sump hold enough water from the display till the siphon breaks at the locline?If not I would lift the locline a few inches.

By NPT fittings on the back of the tank, you mean the bulkhead? There are gaskets between it the tank and the overflow box which prevents the outside leaking, and as far as the pipe its self, it's Teflon taped so there have been no problems with leaks there.

 

It's a check valve. It doesn't allow flow back into the pump, so it can not siphon. I have tested this several times before I submerged the locline. If one day it fails, the water in the tank will drain to the level of the lockline, the water will end up in the emergency overflow. At that point, if there isn't a power failure, the return pump will turn back on automatically when the emergency overflow detects water.

 

If there is a power outage that causes the return pump to turn off, then the it will fill the emergency overflow. If there is still water after filling it, it will fill and contaminate the ATO chamber, but with a half full ATO, That's about 3 gallons of water. Yeah, I've thought through the failure cases a few times. :)

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The fittings I was talking about was the ones that screw into the bulkhead. Looks like teflon tape on it. Just wondered if any problems with them leaking.

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So question for you, is the inlet filter sock the only mechanical filtration you have in this setup? If so, that looks like a 300 micron mesh bag. It won't filter anything but boulders. You can add thick filter floss to that sock or get two 200 micron felt socks.

 

Thought about how to clean the filter socks?

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So question for you, is the inlet filter sock the only mechanical filtration you have in this setup? If so, that looks like a 300 micron mesh bag. It won't filter anything but boulders. You can add thick filter floss to that sock or get two 200 micron felt socks.

 

Thought about how to clean the filter socks?

He has acrylic skills I think he should make a media rack out of acrylic for media and floss.
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He has acrylic skills I think he should make a media rack out of acrylic for media and floss.

I like that idea but the dimensions might be too shallow.

 

HEre's an idea

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/286297-show-me-your-sumps-related-info/?p=3956425

 

another one

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/286297-show-me-your-sumps-related-info/?p=3987234

 

This guy made a video to shos his removable media rack

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/286297-show-me-your-sumps-related-info/?p=3954759

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Mine is off one corner of my sump with a eggcrate rack to hold filter pad 4x4. On my new sump not sure what I am going to do. Probably make a media basket out of glass to hold the floss still up in the air.

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To be honest, I'm not even running the filter sock atm. I think I'm going to end up putting filtration between the 1" baffles similar to how I had it running in my AC70.

 

I took the filter sock off the tuppaware sump because any food waste would end up in the filter sock, and nothing from the sump would have access to consume it. Can't really be munched on by pods there, so it would just sit and rot, or it would have if I left it.

 

 

I think after I win the lotto one day, I'm going to have a room the size of a 3 car garage just to be the sump for my tank. I'm not sure if the tank will be 20 gallons or 2,000 gallons, but I don't think you can have too much room in a sump.

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If you're rethinking the sump already: make the fresh water ATO a part of the sump. Build a square ATO reservoir to sit on top of the area that is the reservoir right now and have it gravity fed (or float switches whatever is comfortable to you).

So you can increase the volume of the sump.

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If you're rethinking the sump already: make the fresh water ATO a part of the sump. Build a square ATO reservoir to sit on top of the area that is the reservoir right now and have it gravity fed (or float switches whatever is comfortable to you).

So you can increase the volume of the sump.

I added a ATO resevoir to my new sump. I am thinking of skipping filter floss in my new sump. Most of the detrius settles in the bottom of the sump anyways. Veng I would leave the sock off and see how it goes.
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Veng and me discussed putting the ATO on top.In the end he decided against it, before I talked him out of it. Fears of it being to much of a downward load on the acrylic as thin as it is, that was the concern.

I am wiht Lawnman on the sock just leave it off for a while and see what happens. I get very little mechanical filtration in the sump as opposed to the HOB in the main display. Most of it settles out in the sump long before it makes it back to the return pump,

If you build a sump that big you totally can use it as a swimming pool from time to time. :D

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If you're rethinking the sump already: make the fresh water ATO a part of the sump. Build a square ATO reservoir to sit on top of the area that is the reservoir right now and have it gravity fed (or float switches whatever is comfortable to you).

So you can increase the volume of the sump.

I'm happy with what I've done. I did what I did because of the design envelope that I created with other choices, which is fine. Being on a counter limit's my height (must be lower than overflow), width(must sit between wall and tank), and length(must hide behind tank). I think I've done very well with the space I used. However, I think you can never have too much room in a sump or a cabinet. Hiding things in plain sight is very hard. Although, if you can pull it off, it looks amazing.

I added a ATO resevoir to my new sump. I am thinking of skipping filter floss in my new sump. Most of the detrius settles in the bottom of the sump anyways. Veng I would leave the sock off and see how it goes.

I've added poly filter (the white and blue filter stuff, that's poly right?) after the fuge, before the pump in the baffles. I think it's the best of both worlds. I want crap to enter the sump, and I want the waste food to get eaten by the pods in the sump, not rot in a sock. I know I'm really questioning some "common reef keeping theory" here, but it doesn't make sense to let stuff flow into a sock and rot.

 

With the bare bottom in the tank, I can just suck detrius out with ease. I'm really liking the bare bottom actually. It makes it easy to find dead spots in the tank, or at least lower flow spots.

 

Veng and me discussed putting the ATO on top.In the end he decided against it, before I talked him out of it. Fears of it being to much of a downward load on the acrylic as thin as it is, that was the concern.

I think I could make it work structurally, however I would lose the "buffer space" of the ATO which is a serious concern. I'm happy with that compared to the extra space in the sump. I've already roughly quadrupled the real water volume of this tank verses the old 10 gallon.

 

If you build a sump that big you totally can use it as a swimming pool from time to time. :D

Ok, I love this idea.
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The food you put in on the first day is rotting for 3 days before you pull it out of the sock. ;)

Which it would do in any filter floss as well.

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Which it would do in any filter floss as well.

I'm rethinkning my stance a little bit now. In the filter floss, your pods have access to eating it. Then again, the pods from the tank would go over the overflow and ride down to the sock. So maybe it's not as horrible as I first thought.

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I'm rethinkning my stance a little bit now. In the filter floss, your pods have access to eating it. Then again, the pods from the tank would go over the overflow and ride down to the sock. So maybe it's not as horrible as I first thought.

Mechanical filtration in general is designed to remove particles from your water. BE it a HOB filter, a media rack, filter sock, canister filter or whatever. All of it needs changing and rinsing. It is obvious that the time between changes and cleanings will leave detritus and uneaten food in the traps. This is the purpose of these traps.

 

Whether pods eat it or not shouldn't be a deciding factor in your filtration.

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A lot of what I have worked very hard on this build to do is make a lower maintance system. Having pods be able to remove the uneaten food increases the time between maintance. I think. Honestly, filtration isn't something I've given a lot of thought to while I was building this thing. Before I used a poly pad filter in my AC70 and changed it out every week or two and never really thought about it. It's like a whole new world to research that I kind of ignored for a while. Sort of like RO/DI systems. I ignored those forever because I was buying water simply because to cost per gallon, I'd never be able to recoupe the investment. Lately I'm tired of the water quality I'm getting being variable on someone elses setup and with the 20L, the economics of scale make it won't take me 10 years for the system to pay for its self.

 

I guess I need to go do a weeks worth of reading on filtration.

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Can't say how much detritus and waste will make its way into the sump in your case. I change my filter sock every 3 days because my system is much more volume and I feed very heavy. In addition the fines from the GFO reactor also go into the sock clogging it faster. I don't feed my fish as often as I feed my corals and that means a lot of food and a lot of broadcast feeding.

 

I would think siphoning out detritus from a sump that is hindered by that cabinet above will require much more maintenance time than changing out a filter sock. With your volume and #of fish you may not need to change it more than once a week. When you do a water change, change the filter sock at the same time.

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You can look at different micron socks at your LFS. Felt catch the most crap, mesh doesn't at all but if you put poly filter or floss of any kind it holds crap of course.

 

All that being said, I wish I did not have a filter sock! Spirofucci and Serenity Reef both have sumps that rely on sponges for filtration. To change my sock I have to shut off the pump and pull out my inlet vinyl hose from the sock and do the change. With the sumps that those guys have you can simply shut off the pump and swap out the sponges. So socks are a pain! but the design of my sump would make changing out the floss difficult also if I had a media rack.

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