bencollinz Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 do you think a co2 scrubber setup would be better than pursuing kalk for ph? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I really don't think you should do any kind of pH alteration (as it is always temporary) unless you are absolutely positive that there is detriment. My pH ranges from 7.6-7.8 over the course of 24 hours and I notice no difference when using kalk or soda lime. Soda lime is very expensive ($130 for 5 gallons of media), and if your household CO2 is high, you will burn through the media like wildfire. I typically use one cup every couple of days. Link to comment
markalot Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Howdy, haven't visited in a while. So let's talk PH since I'm now testing it and mine is a little low. First off, the number one issue with PH is usually testing, so make sure you have a reliable test. I calibrated a nice lab grade PH meter for my Apex and started reading 7.4 PH. At 7.4 PH coral skin will melt and most everything in the tank will slowly die. Obviously the calibration failed, so I tested with an API kit, got a good match of 7.8, and started using my uncalibrated PH port which also read 7.8. Most everything in my tank is happy so I would not worry about 7.8 PH. What can raise PH? Higher evaporation, aeration via air stones and an air pump, more surface turbulence, skimmers. Maintaining a higher KH will help stabilize PH but not necessarily raise it. What can lower PH? Algae, especially at night with no light. Low PH might lead to algae issues but algae issues can also lead to lower PH at night. Vicious circle. Lighting a decent sized fuge at night can help mitigate any PH swing. My other opinions ... Switch over to all Salifert test kits and don't look back. Even their Phosphate test can be adjusted to allow visible results in the range we want to test. IMO the Hannah meters are complete crap and I don't care what anyone says. A small piece of dirt on the glass, a scratch, hard water deposit, even a thumb print can throw the test way off. Stop testing PH for a while. Get your KH stable. Test at the same time every day before doing any dosing (if by hand) and get it locked into 8 to 9 KH. Get your calcium fairly stable but it's not as important. Starting at 500 and slowly falling to 450 over a week is fine IMO. Make sure your Mag stays 1300 or above. Dose weekly as needed. If you decide to go with Kalc understand that not only will it raise PH but also KH and Calcium. If you don't have a regular and steady topoff with good evaporation then you will start swinging Alk again and cause all kinds of issues. Just remember, KH is your most important parameter that you need to keep stable. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Just remember, KH is your most important parameter that you need to keep stable. #winning Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Just tested the following with red sea kit CA 475 Alk 10.9 Mag 1600+ Ph is currently 7.67 via RA and HE digital meter So, what avenue should I pursue? I'm only asking because things are melting like crazy. Frogspawn and Duncan won't open. Acans dying. Link to comment
markalot Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Just tested the following with red sea kit CA 475 Alk 10.9 Mag 1600+ Ph is currently 7.67 via RA and HE digital meter So, what avenue should I pursue? I'm only asking because things are melting like crazy. Frogspawn and Duncan won't open. Acans dying. Sorry, probably re-asking questions here. Is tank open top? What is your evaporation rate (roughly)? Do you have a fan over the tank or sump to increase evaporation? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Just tested the following with red sea kit CA 475 Alk 10.9 Mag 1600+ Ph is currently 7.67 via RA and HE digital meter So, what avenue should I pursue? I'm only asking because things are melting like crazy. Frogspawn and Duncan won't open. Acans dying. Ok, I thought I was better versed with your issue, my apologies. If your pH is that low with your alk at almost 200ppm, then either you don't have good surface agitation or immense household CO2 levels, but your outdoors pH test (from 7.85 indoors to 8.05 outdoors) is pretty typical IMHO, that is about what mine goes to when I did that. I would personally NOT continue the use of kalkwasser unless you drop your magnesium down by quite a bit, you will end up raising your alk and cal sky high trying to keep pH up. Someone mentioned B-ionic supplement to raise your pH, but you'll be raising your alk. B-ionic uses borate to, well, somewhat 'falsely' elevate pH and alkalinity. Corals use very tiny amounts of borate compared to carbonate, so IMHO it's best not to use high borate additives when raising alk. Your best bet is sodalime or running your skimmer airline outside, as everything else can honestly throw more stuff out of whack. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Sorry, probably re-asking questions here. Is tank open top? What is your evaporation rate (roughly)? Do you have a fan over the tank or sump to increase evaporation? there's a canopy over it the back of the canopy is open. I have no clue what the evap rate is. my ato pulls from a 32 gallon brute that my RODI feeds. RODI is manually run 4 or 5 times a month. maybe this chart can help: http://forum.reefangel.com/status/chart.aspx?id=bencollinz&filter=wl sorry. I do not have a fan blowing over the sump. I do have one blowing out of the stand though. Link to comment
markalot Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 As a temporary fix remove the canopy and get a fan blowing to increase evaporation rate, then monitor PH and see if that is a quick fix for the issue. Once that's done then you have something to work with. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Or put an airstone with a strong pump in the sump that feeds from outside the stand. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 As a temporary fix remove the canopy and get a fan blowing to increase evaporation rate, then monitor PH and see if that is a quick fix for the issue. Once that's done then you have something to work with. ok, will try that this weekend. the only issue with removing the top is we have 3 dogs and 2 cats. hair everywhere! Or put an airstone with a strong pump in the sump that feeds from outside the stand. besides the skimmer? I'm going to figure out a route to outside air as well. spaghetti worms showing up in display now. cyano progressing Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Gallon a day evaporation Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 sorry, more questions about it. I need an actual doser with a resevoir of kalk water to pull from (because the gallon can't keep up, right?)? and is there any math from the above two statements to give me a baseline where to start with the doser? do you put yours in the ATO? Yep, I have 4 Home Depot buckets that I mix up at a time and just switch them out as the reservoir every few days. I use the Tunze Osmolator for the ATO. Works great and keeps both Ca/Alk and pH stable. Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just tested the following with red sea kit CA 475 Alk 10.9 Mag 1600+ Ph is currently 7.67 via RA and HE digital meter So, what avenue should I pursue? I'm only asking because things are melting like crazy. Frogspawn and Duncan won't open. Acans dying. What are your phosphates at? Duncans, Acans, and Frogspawn have always done better for me with higher phosphates, especially when alkalinity is high like yours is. When I was using GFO, those corals wouldn't open fully. A couple months since removing that media and my fuge macros exploding with growth, they look great. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 What are your phosphates at? Duncans, Acans, and Frogspawn have always done better for me with higher phosphates, especially when alkalinity is high like yours is. When I was using GFO, those corals wouldn't open fully. A couple months since removing that media and my fuge macros exploding with growth, they look great. phosphates were always 0. we'll see how I'm doing in a few weeks. I switched back to reef crystals and as said before the GFO and carbon are out of the system. just a skimmer and filter sock now. Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Are you using a fuge at all for macro? Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Are you using a fuge at all for macro? I do have a fuge, reverse light exposure. cheato, caluerpas, red finger algae, live rock, live rock rubble and sand bed. Yes Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Give it a month or so, I think it'll turn around. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 So the switch back to reef crystals changed everything for the better. Lost a bunch of zoas but who cares. The Duncan never recovered but frogspawn is opened up more than it has been in a long time. My galaxea which was completely white and dead has somehow come back. My scolymia which was just a skeleton is starting to get tissue again. Crazy. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 feather dusters and some type of eggs... Link to comment
MikeTR Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Tank still on the upswing? Link to comment
bencollinz Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Tank still on the upswing? yes! Link to comment
bencollinz Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Also, moved the tank. Before: After: Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Good or bad? yo dawg, i herd you like fireworms Link to comment
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