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DIY Full Spectrum LED build..


zoaguy

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Reef Breeders
Let me break all that down.

 

 

Cool white LEDs should never be used in an situation where accurate color rendering is needed, such as a reef tank, the technology just isn't there yet. Corals present a very wide variety of colors, and cool white misses so much of the spectrum (even when adding in cyan and deep red to help fill in the gaps) that it will reduce the amount of colors you actually see, because the light isn't coming in for the corals to reflect. Corals aren't more pastel under neutrals - what you are seeing is getting closer to the true colors. I'd much rather have more colorful coral than be limited to blue and green corals, with reds, oranges, yellows being dulled down.

 

Check out this thread on Candlepowerforum.com for more information on why cool white LEDs are bad at color rendition: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showth...Club-Here/page8

 

See the replies on that page from user GaAslamp, they will clear things up far better than I can.

 

If the phosphors were better and more spectrum could be covered with cool white while still looking cool, then they would be better to use. Citizen has made a white LED (CITIZEN CL-L233-HC13N1-C) with a 5000k color temperature that covers more spectrum than I've ever seen from a neutral white chip, but so far, that's the closest we've come at this point in time with LEDs.

 

Citizen13w.png

 

However, it's still not 'cool' enough to be a cool white chip, and it is very expensive (about $40 each for a 13w, 890lm).

 

 

Then why not light a tank with only cool white, or only royal blue at 450nm? There is much more to the photosynthetic action spectrum than that.

 

See here:

action%20spectrum%20en.jpg

 

And here:

pigment.gif

 

And here:

28wmb8k.jpg

 

 

And compare those to the spectral output of the cool white XT-E:

creeXTEcoolwhite.gif

 

Adding more royal blue around 450nm really isn't going to help much, only taking that initial spike even higher. It takes more spectrum to truly thrive in our systems.

 

 

A 1:2 ratio of cool white to royal blue? That's pretty blue, and that's not even adding cool blue (which, again, is a part of the action spectrum that cool white skips out on, hence my original recommendation).

ScreenShot2012-10-01at24921PM.png

Notice with cool whites, the HUGE 450nm spike, followed by a curve of other colors. Too much color over photosynthetically active spectrum is not entirely a good thing. The spectrum is still there, just not in overwhelming amounts. Cool blue is not very important, you do not need every color there is in high amounts, though it does have a small effect. A 2:1 royal blue to cool white ratio is a nice 20k look, as the OP requested. I experimented with nuetral whites, and did not get nearly as good of an effect as I did using deep reds, violets, and greens instead. They have spikes that are about 10nm wide BTW, and like I said, not all spikes are needed. You can however add a couple nuetral whites to the mix, but again, only the important colors need to be highlighted. I tested a LOT of color combos, and this is simply what has worked for me, and still does.

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jedimasterben
Notice with cool whites, the HUGE 450nm spike, followed by a curve of other colors.

What of it? They put out little light at 450nm in comparison to a royal blue LED, as the RB is putting 100% of its light into that spectra. You keep stressing this, but it really doesn't matter a whole lot because we are adding royal blue separately.

 

Too much color over photosynthetically active spectrum is not entirely a good thing.

Why is that? The more power across the entire spectrum (not just small parts of it adding back), the closer your corals look to their actual colors. Plain and simple.

 

The sun at noon, will produce 100% of every possible color that an object will reflect.

SA_sun_550SA.jpg

 

 

The spectrum is still there, just not in overwhelming amounts. Cool blue is not very important, you do not need every color there is in high amounts, though it does have a small effect.

It takes a much higher output than that for it to be noticeable. And yes, cool blue is important, both in photosynthesis (I can't remember what the accessory protein is, but it sits on 470nm and is required for chlorophyll b to function) and in coloration, there is a very noticeable difference when even a small amount of cool blue is introduced. I attribute the short-term coloration of SPS under the AI series, cool blue is the only reason that corals look as nice as they do (before morphing from lack of spectrum).

 

At 1300ma, an XT-E approaches 5v, and is considered a 5watt LED.

Please take a look at the XT-E datasheet. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED...ng/XLampXTE.pdf

 

Here is the forward voltage graph for the chips. Notice that 5v isn't even listed.

VA_XTE.JPG

 

 

 

 

You seem to be one of the only people around that notice that cool white provides better results than neutral, whether full spectrum or not. I've never seen a single person that preferred the look of a tank lit with cool white versus neutral, ever, even if they like the '20K'. Everyone appreciates better coloration, which is precisely why we use neutral.

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Reef Breeders
What of it? They put out little light at 450nm in comparison to a royal blue LED, as the RB is putting 100% of its light into that spectra. You keep stressing this, but it really doesn't matter a whole lot because we are adding royal blue separately.

 

 

Why is that? The more power across the entire spectrum (not just small parts of it adding back), the closer your corals look to their actual colors. Plain and simple.

 

The sun at noon, will produce 100% of every possible color that an object will reflect.

SA_sun_550SA.jpg

 

 

 

It takes a much higher output than that for it to be noticeable. And yes, cool blue is important, both in photosynthesis (I can't remember what the accessory protein is, but it sits on 470nm and is required for chlorophyll b to function) and in coloration, there is a very noticeable difference when even a small amount of cool blue is introduced. I attribute the short-term coloration of SPS under the AI series, cool blue is the only reason that corals look as nice as they do (before morphing from lack of spectrum).

 

 

Please take a look at the XT-E datasheet. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED...ng/XLampXTE.pdf

 

Here is the forward voltage graph for the chips. Notice that 5v isn't even listed.

VA_XTE.JPG

 

 

 

 

You seem to be one of the only people around that notice that cool white provides better results than neutral, whether full spectrum or not. I've never seen a single person that preferred the look of a tank lit with cool white versus neutral, ever, even if they like the '20K'. Everyone appreciates better coloration, which is precisely why we use neutral.

I just find the nuetrals a little too yellow for my taste, and not very beneficial as a replacement for cool whites. Outside of this thread, I rarely hear of people who prefer neutrals to cool whites. And keep in mind, yellow light should have one of the lower spikes that you use, not the highest. In the ocean, corals are exposed to a LOT of blue, and not a lot of yellow, the deeper they go, the less other colors they are exposed to. Violet and royal blue are the most important spectrum in terms of coral growth, and most colors, the reds, greens, cyans, etc. are added to supplement the rest. My point being, I experienced better results with 7500k cool whites than with nuetral. Perhaps you are referring to higher K cool whites, like 10k and 14k cool whites, in which case I absolutely agree. And if by neutral whites, you are talking 5k, I somewhat agree, but still find 7500k to be the best white overall. If you have had good results with nuetral whites, that is fine, and I did not say that you could not have good results with them, simply that I got more "pastel" colors using them. Either way, I think that the OP will have a successful reef tank with his new LEDs.
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Milad LEDGroupBuy.com
I just find the nuetrals a little too yellow for my taste, and not very beneficial as a replacement for cool whites. Outside of this thread, I rarely hear of people who prefer neutrals to cool whites. And keep in mind, yellow light should have one of the lower spikes that you use, not the highest. In the ocean, corals are exposed to a LOT of blue, and not a lot of yellow, the deeper they go, the less other colors they are exposed to. Violet and royal blue are the most important spectrum in terms of coral growth, and most colors, the reds, greens, cyans, etc. are added to supplement the rest. My point being, I experienced better results with 7500k cool whites than with nuetral. Perhaps you are referring to higher K cool whites, like 10k and 14k cool whites, in which case I absolutely agree. And if by neutral whites, you are talking 5k, I somewhat agree, but still find 7500k to be the best white overall. If you have had good results with nuetral whites, that is fine, and I did not say that you could not have good results with them, simply that I got more "pastel" colors using them. Either way, I think that the OP will have a successful reef tank with his new LEDs.

 

Im with Jedi

 

Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW = much better than Royal Blue to Cool White

much better as in not even worth arguing about. This weekend I bought a couple acans that were under a Royal Blue Cool White setup. They didnt look great but the guy was giving me a good deal.

 

I put them under a full spectrum build (Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW) WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Night and day. Its incredible. I don't know what else to say about it. It should be against the law to purchase cool white and royal blues together!

 

Someone needs to start a petition to outlaw cool whites in aquarium builds!

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So you're just needing a temporary light while you put your main build together? Just use a clip-on shop light with a 23w CFL (or more) from Home Depot. Will provide plenty of light (they give pretty awesome PAR) and while not looking the best, it is only temporary.

 

 

What's holding up your build?

 

Sorry about late responses.

1) I'm in Australia now and can't work on it

2) When I was able to work on it. The wiring of the driver were screwy so sockets kept popping and light kept turning off but the LEDs mysteriously still worked. Ugh I probably should of just kept it simple and forgot about the PWN controllers lol.

 

Question 1: I'm liking Steve's LED drivers and they seem easier to use for beginners. Would you recommend them?

Question 2: Can mis-wired LEDs cause the sockets to blow and house lights to pop off?

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Im with Jedi

 

Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW = much better than Royal Blue to Cool White

much better as in not even worth arguing about. This weekend I bought a couple acans that were under a Royal Blue Cool White setup. They didnt look great but the guy was giving me a good deal.

 

I put them under a full spectrum build (Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW) WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Night and day. Its incredible. I don't know what else to say about it. It should be against the law to purchase cool white and royal blues together!

 

Someone needs to start a petition to outlaw cool whites in aquarium builds!

 

Well I guess that sums it up. I have CW/RB in my 5 gallon tank and the macroalgae kind of suffer from it (don't die though) in my 10 gal with the unfinished fixture of just NW/RB the macroalgae grow pretty well even with seagrasses. I don't have corals yet though so I can't really say anything about that. Hopefully when I get back to the states I can work on the wiring and get everything good. Though I'm annoyed with it now I know I will be happy getting the sunrise/sunset affect once I'm finished; I just don't know what the main problem is- wiring, bummed meanwell or bummed power cord.

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jedimasterben
Im with Jedi

 

Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW = much better than Royal Blue to Cool White

much better as in not even worth arguing about. This weekend I bought a couple acans that were under a Royal Blue Cool White setup. They didnt look great but the guy was giving me a good deal.

 

I put them under a full spectrum build (Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW) WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Night and day. Its incredible. I don't know what else to say about it. It should be against the law to purchase cool white and royal blues together!

 

Someone needs to start a petition to outlaw cool whites in aquarium builds!

ROYAL DECREE!

 

 

B)

 

Sorry about late responses.

1) I'm in Australia now and can't work on it

2) When I was able to work on it. The wiring of the driver were screwy so sockets kept popping and light kept turning off but the LEDs mysteriously still worked. Ugh I probably should of just kept it simple and forgot about the PWN controllers lol.

 

Question 1: I'm liking Steve's LED drivers and they seem easier to use for beginners. Would you recommend them?

Question 2: Can mis-wired LEDs cause the sockets to blow and house lights to pop off?

Yeah, I guess being out of the country would be a legitimate reason to not work on it. ;)

 

What drivers were you using?

 

1) They're good in the sense that they are 'modular'. Want to add more LEDs? Just put in another small driver board and plug it into the power supply. Cost is less than Inventronics and about on par with Meanwell. I like the simplicity of Meanwell drivers and not needing a separate power supply, but then there's more than can go wrong. With Steve's drivers, if the power supply dies, the drivers are fine, or if a driver goes down, the rest are ok along with the power supply.

 

2) Yes, they can, they'll cause the driver to be all wonky which can definitely flip a breaker.

 

Well I guess that sums it up. I have CW/RB in my 5 gallon tank and the macroalgae kind of suffer from it (don't die though) in my 10 gal with the unfinished fixture of just NW/RB the macroalgae grow pretty well even with seagrasses. I don't have corals yet though so I can't really say anything about that. Hopefully when I get back to the states I can work on the wiring and get everything good. Though I'm annoyed with it now I know I will be happy getting the sunrise/sunset affect once I'm finished; I just don't know what the main problem is- wiring, bummed meanwell or bummed power cord.

Ok, so you're using Meanwells. Once you get back to the states, let us know and get pics of the wiring and we'll help you get it going 100%. :)

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ROYAL DECREE!

 

 

B)

 

 

Yeah, I guess being out of the country would be a legitimate reason to not work on it. ;)

 

What drivers were you using?

 

1) They're good in the sense that they are 'modular'. Want to add more LEDs? Just put in another small driver board and plug it into the power supply. Cost is less than Inventronics and about on par with Meanwell. I like the simplicity of Meanwell drivers and not needing a separate power supply, but then there's more than can go wrong. With Steve's drivers, if the power supply dies, the drivers are fine, or if a driver goes down, the rest are ok along with the power supply.

 

2) Yes, they can, they'll cause the driver to be all wonky which can definitely flip a breaker.

 

 

Ok, so you're using Meanwells. Once you get back to the states, let us know and get pics of the wiring and we'll help you get it going 100%. :)

 

Great! Thanks so much!!! :D

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Im with Jedi

 

Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW = much better than Royal Blue to Cool White

much better as in not even worth arguing about. This weekend I bought a couple acans that were under a Royal Blue Cool White setup. They didnt look great but the guy was giving me a good deal.

 

I put them under a full spectrum build (Royal Blue + Neutrals + OCW) WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Night and day. Its incredible. I don't know what else to say about it. It should be against the law to purchase cool white and royal blues together!

 

Someone needs to start a petition to outlaw cool whites in aquarium builds!

 

You neglected to see that he also supplements with cool blue/cyan/green/red like you are doing with OCW. I've tested NW+WW+RB+CB+420nm alone, and it still doesn't look as good as if it were supplemented by OCW. There is more of a visual impact with separate colored leds than with just NW and WW.

 

With that said, I prefer NW and WW in my whites, as 450nm is well handled by royal blues. They can become a problem with cyano if your nutrients are high, and if you run them near 5W each like I do.

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have any one measured forward voltages of each LED's in a string ? Luxeon Rebels to be exact ..

 

got my LED's this week, waiting for the drivers, had to know what would be the real-world voltages as opposed to Datasheet values.

 

jedi,

 

did you ever try ???

 

Regards

Zoaguy :)

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jedimasterben
have any one measured forward voltages of each LED's in a string ? Luxeon Rebels to be exact ..

 

got my LED's this week, waiting for the drivers, had to know what would be the real-world voltages as opposed to Datasheet values.

 

jedi,

 

did you ever try ???

 

Regards

Zoaguy :)

I've tested several out of each order that I've gotten, and I found them to be nearly exact to what his site tells. The RB and NW both at 1000ma use 3.0-3.05v each at 1000ma.

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jedi,

 

those figures are impressive :)

 

after i get hold of drivers, i will update my string voltages...

 

so any one else checked their rebels for voltages ???

 

 

Regards

Zoaguy :)

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uglybuckling
jedi,

 

those figures are impressive :)

 

after i get hold of drivers, i will update my string voltages...

 

so any one else checked their rebels for voltages ???

 

 

Regards

Zoaguy :)

 

I tested eight of mine (RBs and NWs only; the 3up OCW stars wired in series made it tough to test the other colors...) and after the first three or so, I became worried that my meter wasn't working properly, since they all read 3.00V. After dimming them a bit, the voltage used changed, so I decided my meter was fine (and set up properly), and tested the rest of the Rebels. As Jedi said, they're remarkably close to 3.00V at 1000mA.

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I tested eight of mine (RBs and NWs only; the 3up OCW stars wired in series made it tough to test the other colors...) and after the first three or so, I became worried that my meter wasn't working properly, since they all read 3.00V. After dimming them a bit, the voltage used changed, so I decided my meter was fine (and set up properly), and tested the rest of the Rebels. As Jedi said, they're remarkably close to 3.00V at 1000mA.

 

 

so this sums it all :)

 

 

Thanks

Zoaguy :)

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