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Will this 20l sump design work?


thirdchild

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So I think I'm going to tackle building a sump. It's my very first sump so I'm trying to figure out the exact measurements.

 

Will this work?

 

When a sump is normal, is the water across all the chambers at the same level like I'm assuming? I'd like to leave some room at the top in case of power outage

 

I'd also like to use my old chiller so I thought I'd get a stronger return pump and pump through the chiller before it goes to the display tank. Ok or bad idea?

 

Thanks!

 

Plans below:

20120625sumpplan.gif

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avalanche1201

just built one to almost the exact dimensions. It should work fine as long as you make sure the water level is sufficient for the skimmer. I havent had mine in action yet b/c im still in the total build process. Once I get the display tank set up and can test them out together I will let you know how it goes if your still waiting to make yours

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just built one to almost the exact dimensions. It should work fine as long as you make sure the water level is sufficient for the skimmer. I havent had mine in action yet b/c im still in the total build process. Once I get the display tank set up and can test them out together I will let you know how it goes if your still waiting to make yours

 

Sweet. I'll subscribed to your build. Good luck with it!

 

Yeah, I want to diagram this out enough to know the size of the baffles I want. Then I can talk to a few glass shops.

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disaster999

you dont need that huge of a gap between the baffles, 0.5" between each glass and 1" off the bottom should be sufficient. this will give you 2" of space extra for the fuge or skimmer

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+1 to Disaster. I think the glass in the third chamber should be 8" as well. If you go 7", there will be a waterfall into chamber two. Depending how strong your return pump is. #1 thing is getting the correct height for your skimmer. You can always raise your skimmer, but if you don't make it deep enough, you will need to redo it. Also the height at which you keep your return tube in your display will determine how much water will back flow during power out. Mine was almost at the surface and it filled my 20L w 8" baffles. I'll have to go remeasure.

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you dont need that huge of a gap between the baffles, 0.5" between each glass and 1" off the bottom should be sufficient. this will give you 2" of space extra for the fuge or skimmer

 

Ok, reduced to 1" and given the space to the return pump chamber. 1/2" just seems narrow. I have no experience but seems alot of people go for 1"

 

The skimmer is 9" wide so it has 2" wiggle room.

The return pump is 4" wide so it has 2.5" wiggle room.

Refugium section is 10" wide now.

 

+1 to Disaster. I think the glass in the third chamber should be 8" as well. If you go 7", there will be a waterfall into chamber two. Depending how strong your return pump is. #1 thing is getting the correct height for your skimmer. You can always raise your skimmer, but if you don't make it deep enough, you will need to redo it. Also the height at which you keep your return tube in your display will determine how much water will back flow during power out. Mine was almost at the surface and it filled my 20L w 8" baffles. I'll have to go remeasure.

 

Well good thing I asked then!

 

The skimmer I want to use needs to be 8-10" of water. So I want to maintain 9" in chamber 1 where water enters the sump.

 

Can I lower both baffles around the refugium to 7"? Does it mean I drop to a lower water level and no waterfall?

 

The reason why I'd like to lower rather than raise the water level is to contain more water in event of power outage. I've had a couple of outtages over the last year.

 

20120626sump2.gif

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You want the water in your first chamber to remain constant, so the first baffle should be the height that you want. I'd shoot for 9" high. That's how high the baffles should be. Your water should never go above this level, except when you turn off your pumps and the water from your tank backflows.

 

The baffle between the pump and the refugium area should be set to the height you need to accommodate the backflow of your tank. As water evaporates, you usually only want the level in the pump return chamber to go up and down, especially if you are using an ATO as this means a small amount of evaporation kicks on the ATO, which results in more constant salinity. The way you have it drawn, the water level in both the refugium and return chamber will lower as water evaporates, which means to get an ATO to kick on, much more water has to evaporate. If you are doing manual top-offs, it doesn't really matter. You want to make sure that there is enough water above the pump that a day or two of evaporation doesn't mean your pump is running dry if you are going the manual route.

 

Come to think of it, yes I'd like to do ATO with this new build. Ok, now I'm thinking my solution is one last baffle.

 

This should keep the level in the return chamber a little higher, but allow me to keep the refugium section water level a little lower.

 

I think I can accommodate about 5 extra gallons in the event of a outage. Is that an ok safety margin?

 

20120626sump3.gif

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thegambler26

I built one out of a 15gal very similar to your design. The difference being I don't have the first baffle just after the skimmer in your drawing. Instead I turned that first area into a filter rack. Your water levels are correct on your drawing, except, the water from the fuge to the pump area remain the same regardless of the height of the baffles. The baffles really only block your refuge from pushing its contents into your pump area.

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Your first baffel must be the tallest baffel in your sump. all other baffels must be same hight or shorter.

its important.

 

Id suggest making 2nd baffel shorter at the top only by 1.5". now the water.in skimmer chamber wont change.

you do not want the water level in the first chamber to change.

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I built one out of a 15gal very similar to your design. The difference being I don't have the first baffle just after the skimmer in your drawing. Instead I turned that first area into a filter rack. Your water levels are correct on your drawing, except, the water from the fuge to the pump area remain the same regardless of the height of the baffles. The baffles really only block your refuge from pushing its contents into your pump area.

 

Oh a filter rack is a awesome idea.

 

If chamber 2+3 are at the same water level, does it mean that the ATO will still be dealing with both?

 

Your first baffel must be the tallest baffel in your sump. all other baffels must be same hight or shorter.

its important.

 

Id suggest making 2nd baffel shorter at the top only by 1.5". now the water.in skimmer chamber wont change.

you do not want the water level in the first chamber to change.

 

Well I made the second baffle taller thinking that 0.5"-1" water is going to spill over the stop of the first baffle and then go under the second.

 

If the second is shorter than the first baffle, will water still go under it and keep flowing?

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Ok, I think I have it now after staring at disaster's sump pictures a really long time :)

 

I widened a section to fit a little bag of chemipure-elite and purigen. Then I shifted the baffles at the end to keep a different water level for the return. It should leave the return pump below 2-2.5" of water.

 

The sump can then hold around 5g of backflow. If I didn't overlook something, I get to order some baffles!

 

20120628sump4.gif

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is the chemi pure elite actually used by people affectively?

 

as i like this idea of creating room for it but can't we just place that in the fuge?

 

do you need that second baffle near the return? thats a first I've seen during my researching.

 

Your first baffel must be the tallest baffel in your sump. all other baffels must be same hight or shorter.

its important.

 

Id suggest making 2nd baffel shorter at the top only by 1.5". now the water.in skimmer chamber wont change.

you do not want the water level in the first chamber to change.

 

which one is considered the "1st" baffle?

 

I have read their is no specific order in fuge/skimmer/return so how would we know which one to make that "1st" one be?

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disaster999

he most certainly dont need to create space in the baffles to put the carbon, but his arrangements would allow the best contact for it. most of the water will pass through the carbon making it more effective than just placing it inside the sump.

 

technically he dont need the baffles for the return, he could just have the pump inside the fuge for return. but if he wants a constant water level for the fuge, then he would need the baffle closest to the pump, also it helps keeps chaeto out of the pump clogging it. as the for the second baffle away from the pump, that is just to minimize stagnant water inside the fuge area. water is coming from the top and leaving from the top, the water at the bottom of the fuge might get less flow their for not really fully utilizing the fuge effectively. having the baffle he setup, it will force water exit at the bottom of the fuge. creating better circulation.

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You might want to think about running a reactor instead of making the 3" Gap for the chemi-pure. 3" comes out to a lot of real estate in there. You lose space fast. It isn't as big as it looks on paper.

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i think hes referring to the baffle in the first chamber water enters from

Yes and the pronoun for me is "she" ;)

 

he most certainly dont need to create space in the baffles to put the carbon, but his arrangements would allow the best contact for it. most of the water will pass through the carbon making it more effective than just placing it inside the sump.

 

technically he dont need the baffles for the return, he could just have the pump inside the fuge for return. but if he wants a constant water level for the fuge, then he would need the baffle closest to the pump, also it helps keeps chaeto out of the pump clogging it. as the for the second baffle away from the pump, that is just to minimize stagnant water inside the fuge area. water is coming from the top and leaving from the top, the water at the bottom of the fuge might get less flow their for not really fully utilizing the fuge effectively. having the baffle he setup, it will force water exit at the bottom of the fuge. creating better circulation.

 

Yes, pretty much. I won't have sand or anything in the refugium part. I'll probably make a little cage for the cheato too. So nothing should obstruct the water from going to the return section.

 

Seeing water in your sump helped me figure this out actually.

 

You might want to think about running a reactor instead of making the 3" Gap for the chemi-pure. 3" comes out to a lot of real estate in there. You lose space fast. It isn't as big as it looks on paper.

 

Hmm, true. The space is really 3" wide by 12"deep by 5" tall or something. I was thinking I'd make a little horizontal media rack to fit in that gap. I'll try it out in real life and see if it seems ok. Trying to avoid more stuff in the stand so I can fit the ATO.

 

I don't really want to do a media reactor or start dosing til I know I need to.

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turbofreak403
Ok, I think I have it now after staring at disaster's sump pictures a really long time :)

 

I widened a section to fit a little bag of chemipure-elite and purigen. Then I shifted the baffles at the end to keep a different water level for the return. It should leave the return pump below 2-2.5" of water.

 

The sump can then hold around 5g of backflow. If I didn't overlook something, I get to order some baffles!

 

20120628sump4.gif

 

how did this setup workout for you?

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how did this setup workout for you?

 

No idea yet. Just ordered the baffles from the glass shop. I'll take pictures when I test for leaks.

 

Oh I found out that the skimmer measurements I used was for a much stronger skimmer than what I need. So I'm going with a smaller skimmer and now the first chamber is about 2.5" smaller in my last diagrams.

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what did you end up doing in regards to your bulkheads and sump? any progress?

 

I am about to order my Eheim Compact Return Pump, i just can't find a damn overflow box for a herbie system !!!!!!!! Im losing my patience !

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Next sump I make will have one chamber for the skimmer and I'll section off the return pump with egg crate.

No other baffles. The longer I stay in this hobby....I find simpler is better.

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thirdchild
ok great, going to be building sump soon, roughly same design

 

Cool good luck!

 

what did you end up doing in regards to your bulkheads and sump? any progress?

 

I am about to order my Eheim Compact Return Pump, i just can't find a damn overflow box for a herbie system !!!!!!!! Im losing my patience !

 

Glued in 4 baffles so far. In a day or two I can glue in the last and do a test. I'm making a giant mess though. I definitely think some experience at this stuff helps.

 

I'm still sticking to the 1 drain and 2 returns plan. Drilled and painted... also a bit of a mess.

 

Maybe someone on the forums can build a overflow box for you?

 

Next sump I make will have one chamber for the skimmer and I'll section off the return pump with egg crate.

No other baffles. The longer I stay in this hobby....I find simpler is better.

 

Well I've never had a sump before.... worse case I can always take away some baffles if it's not going the way I thought it would.

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Next sump I make will have one chamber for the skimmer and I'll section off the return pump with egg crate.

No other baffles. The longer I stay in this hobby....I find simpler is better.

 

So you'll have 3 baffles for the skimmer/bubble trap and have your fuge in the middle separated by an egg crate for the return? I might try this instead of getting a 4th baffle.

 

Do you think the glass baffles from lowes will be good? Instead of 1/4" its 1/8" i think.

 

how much are egg crates?

 

Cool good luck!

 

 

 

Glued in 4 baffles so far. In a day or two I can glue in the last and do a test. I'm making a giant mess though. I definitely think some experience at this stuff helps.

 

I'm still sticking to the 1 drain and 2 returns plan. Drilled and painted... also a bit of a mess.

 

Maybe someone on the forums can build a overflow box for you?

 

 

 

Well I've never had a sump before.... worse case I can always take away some baffles if it's not going the way I thought it would.

 

Where did you get your baffles created and how much? I'm sure your doing great !!

 

Did your glass-holes kit come in? Where did you drill them at and how much ?

 

Yeah, i dk what I'm doing anymore I might just end up with 1 drain 1 return at this point.

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The simplest design I've seen in person was a plastic tub, with a skimmer and a return pump with one section of egg crate to separate the return pump.

Had two reactors on the side and an ATO.

No baffles what so ever.

Worked great, no micro bubbles, no issues.

This was on an SPS heavy tank and had been in operation for over a year.

 

I've built a few sumps and it's fun to see it work out the way ya planned.

Not hating on anyone's design or suggesting anything different

 

But, next time around .... I'm goin the simple route, maybe I'll throw in a filter sock ... lol

 

how much are egg crates?

 

Get that at HD or Lowes. I forget what they call it..."light diffuser" maybe.

It's expensive considering what it is. I can't recall exactly, but it's not cheap for plastic.

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thirdchild
So you'll have 3 baffles for the skimmer/bubble trap and have your fuge in the middle separated by an egg crate for the return? I might try this instead of getting a 4th baffle.

 

Do you think the glass baffles from lowes will be good? Instead of 1/4" its 1/8" i think.

 

how much are egg crates?

 

 

 

Where did you get your baffles created and how much? I'm sure your doing great !!

 

Did your glass-holes kit come in? Where did you drill them at and how much ?

 

Yeah, i dk what I'm doing anymore I might just end up with 1 drain 1 return at this point.

 

Yes the glass-holes kit came in and it's pretty nicely constructed. I traced the holes on the tank, then gave the templates and tank to glass shop in Pasadena called "Cliff's Discount Glass" for about $45. Only guys who were willing to give it a shot and did it for me in about a day. I ordered my 5 baffles (1/4") from the same shop for $25.

 

I think the eggcrate cost me maybe $10 from Home Depot. But it's a pretty big sheet, so it'll be enough to go under some live rock in the tank when it gets going.

 

Oh FYI, silicon smells bad but at least it's not superglue. I would have glued my hands together by now with superglue.

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