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THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD


ZephNYC

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Nice job done Les

 

Albert

 

I don't understand why Nyos didn't do something similar. The drain off they provide appears to be an afterthought. :wacko:

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albertthiel

 

I don't understand why Nyos didn't do something similar. The drain off they provide appears to be an afterthought. :wacko:

 

Yes surprising they did not ... especially with all the competition for skimmer sales that exists

 

Albert

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Thinking outside the box

 

Unfortunately there is this box. It is very comfortable and warm inside the box which is why almost everyone wants to stay and think inside the box. People inside the box all have much of the same ideas and ways of thinking and oddly enough many of the same problems that don't get resolved using the same methods that people inside the box have been using since the salt water hobby started in the United States in 1971. I think it was on a Tuesday about 2 or 2:30 in the afternoon. Even though many of the methods don't work, people still use those methods because the sides of the box are very hard so the information gets echoed all over the box and we hear the same wrong information over and over again. We can't help but to use those methods because that is whats inside that box. The box also gets a daily influx of Noobs and many times Noobs will try something and it will work. Of course they don't know that that thing has been done forty seven thousand times. Then that information bounces around the box and everyone in the box hears it and thinks that is the way to do that particular thing. So it is done over and over again and even though it worked once, and never works again, it is still done because eventually that Noob gets out of the hobby and goes on one of those "Getting out of the Hobby, everything for sale " threads, but his Ideas keep getting re-circulated. He goes on to colect stamps and becomes an accountant at Burger King where he becomes a manager of the French Fry cooker.

Many years ago there was no box. All we had was wide open spaces, Elvis, Marylin Monroe, bellbottoms and a lot of sky. There were also no methods so we had to find our own ways to do things. We had to experiment and in doing so we killed more fish than StarKist Tuna. There was only one salt water hobbiest per state and there was no internet and we didn't know each other so everyone was a researcher. When we bought a fish,no one knew anything about that fish except the fish itself and Jacues Cousteau and he wasn't talking. So if our tank got overcome with hair algae, we learned on our own how to deal with it. We grew enough algae to cover a 19 hole golf course, but eventually we overcame and eliminated the algae. Of course if we were inside the box we would learn that changing the water will help with that. But we, outside the box realize that never works so we didn't do that.

When our fish got parasites we quickly learned how to deal with that also. Again, if we were inside the box we would change the water , with the same result.

If a fish died, we learned through trial and error how to correct that situation. No, we didn't change the water or check our parameters. We had no test kits anyway so we had to rely on our common sense which worked out pretty well.

We also learned, on our own how to feed fish so they would never get sick. We found out that our fish were supposed to spawn all the time and if they didn't, they were not healthy and prone to diseases. We could have changed the water but knew that in the future there would be this box where everyone changed water all the time but still had numerous problems.

We never had a new fish that wouldn't eat because our tanks were natural and healthy, not sterile like a newly shampooed rug like many of the tanks inside the box.

Sometimes, after a while someone climbs outside of the box and in doing so trys to go against the fine folks inside the box. The people inside the box make fun of that person and say his (or her) Ideas can't work because it is just not done that way. If say that person uses a reverse undergravel filter, the laughter from inside the box will rise to a roar. If that person goes against biblical box knowledge and finds a way to keep fish healthy without quarantining, that roar will become a typhoon and the box will shake.

The box people will never accept those outside the box ideas because it is just not taught inside the box. Even if those outside of the box ideas are proven, they will never be taken seriousely, and more importantly if any of those ideas and methods are very cheap and easy to implement, forget about it, that person may as well take up collecting old shoes because he will be driven out of the fish hobby.

Now everyone knows there are some really nice tanks inside the box. Some tanks, everyone are jealous of so going outside the box is not for everyone. But history proves that all of the new, important, earth shattering or Awe inspiring events that happened were the result of thinking outside the box because if everyone always thought inside the box there would never be any improvement because the box doesn’t allow for it. Most Neanderthals thought inside the box which is the reason they walked around for thousands of years carrying sticks and little else. It took an outside the box thinker to invent a microwave so Neanderthals could throw away that stick and heat up a TV dinner. Eventually Neanderthals got taken over by Liberals who invented that box. :)

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Thinking outside the box

 

Unfortunately there is this box. It is very comfortable and warm inside the box which is why almost everyone wants to stay and think inside the box. People inside the box all have much of the same ideas and ways of thinking and oddly enough many of the same problems that don't get resolved using the same methods that people inside the box have been using since the salt water hobby started in the United States in 1971. I think it was on a Tuesday about 2 or 2:30 in the afternoon. Even though many of the methods don't work, people still use those methods because the sides of the box are very hard so the information gets echoed all over the box and we hear the same wrong information over and over again. We can't help but to use those methods because that is whats inside that box. The box also gets a daily influx of Noobs and many times Noobs will try something and it will work. Of course they don't know that that thing has been done forty seven thousand times. Then that information bounces around the box and everyone in the box hears it and thinks that is the way to do that particular thing. So it is done over and over again and even though it worked once, and never works again, it is still done because eventually that Noob gets out of the hobby and goes on one of those "Getting out of the Hobby, everything for sale " threads, but his Ideas keep getting re-circulated. He goes on to colect stamps and becomes an accountant at Burger King where he becomes a manager of the French Fry cooker.

Many years ago there was no box. All we had was wide open spaces, Elvis, Marylin Monroe, bellbottoms and a lot of sky. There were also no methods so we had to find our own ways to do things. We had to experiment and in doing so we killed more fish than StarKist Tuna. There was only one salt water hobbiest per state and there was no internet and we didn't know each other so everyone was a researcher. When we bought a fish,no one knew anything about that fish except the fish itself and Jacues Cousteau and he wasn't talking. So if our tank got overcome with hair algae, we learned on our own how to deal with it. We grew enough algae to cover a 19 hole golf course, but eventually we overcame and eliminated the algae. Of course if we were inside the box we would learn that changing the water will help with that. But we, outside the box realize that never works so we didn't do that.

When our fish got parasites we quickly learned how to deal with that also. Again, if we were inside the box we would change the water , with the same result.

If a fish died, we learned through trial and error how to correct that situation. No, we didn't change the water or check our parameters. We had no test kits anyway so we had to rely on our common sense which worked out pretty well.

We also learned, on our own how to feed fish so they would never get sick. We found out that our fish were supposed to spawn all the time and if they didn't, they were not healthy and prone to diseases. We could have changed the water but knew that in the future there would be this box where everyone changed water all the time but still had numerous problems.

We never had a new fish that wouldn't eat because our tanks were natural and healthy, not sterile like a newly shampooed rug like many of the tanks inside the box.

Sometimes, after a while someone climbs outside of the box and in doing so trys to go against the fine folks inside the box. The people inside the box make fun of that person and say his (or her) Ideas can't work because it is just not done that way. If say that person uses a reverse undergravel filter, the laughter from inside the box will rise to a roar. If that person goes against biblical box knowledge and finds a way to keep fish healthy without quarantining, that roar will become a typhoon and the box will shake.

The box people will never accept those outside the box ideas because it is just not taught inside the box. Even if those outside of the box ideas are proven, they will never be taken seriousely, and more importantly if any of those ideas and methods are very cheap and easy to implement, forget about it, that person may as well take up collecting old shoes because he will be driven out of the fish hobby.

Now everyone knows there are some really nice tanks inside the box. Some tanks, everyone are jealous of so going outside the box is not for everyone. But history proves that all of the new, important, earth shattering or Awe inspiring events that happened were the result of thinking outside the box because if everyone always thought inside the box there would never be any improvement because the box doesn’t allow for it. Most Neanderthals thought inside the box which is the reason they walked around for thousands of years carrying sticks and little else. It took an outside the box thinker to invent a microwave so Neanderthals could throw away that stick and heat up a TV dinner. Eventually Neanderthals got taken over by Liberals who invented that box. :)

I just read this and thought "pfft this guy is just copying what I just read on facebook"... and then I realized your name matches facebook... ROFL

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xAyanex, thank you for responding. But, I never copy. :unsure:

An example of box thinking is cycling a tank. We hear all the time not to cycle a tank with a live shrimp because it is cruel. But it is OK to cycle a tank with a dead shrimp. But that shrimp also died just for us to use it's dead body to cycle a tank and not for any other purpose. That shrimp (or fish) that we used for cycling suffocated on the deck of a ship. Whats the difference if we put it live in a tank, or had someone else kill it by suffocating it? We feed our fish Mysis, krill, fish eggs, silversides and clams. Do those creatures have less rights than the fish we want to keep just because they are cuter or cost more?
I eat fish almost every day, I am sure they were not gently put to sleep before they were filleted and sautéed for me to eat. I don't feel sorry for the flounder and squid I had for dinner last night. I actually thank them. They are fish and are here for us, and other creatures to eat. Just like cows, pigs and if you are a red neck, squirrels and possums.
99.9% of all fish are eaten as soon as they are born, or even before that as an egg. A fish is a creature that never dies of old age. Unless they are in a very good aquarists tank. Fish are always eaten alive by something else. If you are religious, even Jesus ate fish and he didn't give them last rites first. A whale eats tons of krill a day. Are whales cruel? Should they switch to asparagus? Great White Sharks sometimes eat lawyers. Now that is Ironic isn't it! B)

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It seems that my clownfish spawn almost exactly every 30 days that I notice. They may spawn twice as much as that but I don't notice. The bluestripe pipefish are harder to tell because the male always seems to be pregnant. The mandarins sometimes go through spawning every couple of weeks to a month or more. It is very hard to tell because those, and most fish spawn just before the lights go out. Bangai cardinals need a lot of food to spawn and it is hard to feed them enough in a mixed reef tank. Them, like Moorish Idols lose length on their dorsal fin when they don't eat enough and they will stop spawning. The two adults I have can probably eat more by themselves than all 20 of the rest of my fish with the copperband being second. If I fed them as much as I really should, they would spawn every couple of weeks like they are supposed to but I just can't put that much food in the tank every day or I would be changing the water twice a day. Feeding correctly is always hard in a tank full of corals. My nitrates are already way to high but I really want all my fish to spawn so my SPS will just have to get over it. This has always been a problem and as you know, fish grow. And sometimes they grow much larger than we would like.

Male20Mandarin_zpsqqpbzpmm.jpg

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albertthiel

It seems that my clownfish spawn almost exactly every 30 days that I notice. They may spawn twice as much as that but I don't notice. The bluestripe pipefish are harder to tell because the male always seems to be pregnant. The mandarins sometimes go through spawning every couple of weeks to a month or more. It is very hard to tell because those, and most fish spawn just before the lights go out. Bangai cardinals need a lot of food to spawn and it is hard to feed them enough in a mixed reef tank. Them, like Moorish Idols lose length on their dorsal fin when they don't eat enough and they will stop spawning. The two adults I have can probably eat more by themselves than all 20 of the rest of my fish with the copperband being second. If I fed them as much as I really should, they would spawn every couple of weeks like they are supposed to but I just can't put that much food in the tank every day or I would be changing the water twice a day. Feeding correctly is always hard in a tank full of corals. My nitrates are already way to high but I really want all my fish to spawn so my SPS will just have to get over it. This has always been a problem and as you know, fish grow. And sometimes they grow much larger than we would like.

Male20Mandarin_zpsqqpbzpmm.jpg

Very true and thanks for all the detail Paul

 

You ARE a Camp for sure

 

Albert

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I went away on Saturday to visit and stay with friends. I came home Sunday afternoon and the larger of my purple firefish was missing. I never saw it all Sunday even when I fed the tank 4 times. My 2 firefish were inseparable never leaving one another's side so I was convinced that sadly it had died. This morning low and behold it appeared and rejoined the other right as rain. I can only assume while I was away they had spawned and it went off to guard the eggs but why for no more than 36 hours or so. Hmmmm

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I wish I could feed my fish as they feed in nature. All my fish bar those that graze on algae what there is of it are opportunistic feeder. Most small fish on the reef mostly feed constantly on passing morsels of food as and when it is available to them. The best I can do is feed them 4 times a day that along with whatever my tank provides in the form of plankton etc which in truth is not a lot. Still by and large they breed and live long lives and stay disease free. I would like to think given the choice of returning to the reef from which they came withwith the risks they constantly face or staying in my hotel they would choose the later. Now if I could only talk to the animals.

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albertthiel

I went away on Saturday to visit and stay with friends. I came home Sunday afternoon and the larger of my purple firefish was missing. I never saw it all Sunday even when I fed the tank 4 times. My 2 firefish were inseparable never leaving one another's side so I was convinced that sadly it had died. This morning low and behold it appeared and rejoined the other right as rain. I can only assume while I was away they had spawned and it went off to guard the eggs but why for no more than 36 hours or so. Hmmmm

 

Glad it showed back up Les and yes sometimes fish disappear for days or longer only to suddenly reappear out of the blue as you well know

 

Albert

I wish I could feed my fish as they feed in nature. All my fish bar those that graze on algae what there is of it are opportunistic feeder. Most small fish on the reef mostly feed constantly on passing morsels of food as and when it is available to them. The best I can do is feed them 4 times a day that along with whatever my tank provides in the form of plankton etc which in truth is not a lot. Still by and large they breed and live long lives and stay disease free. I would like to think given the choice of returning to the reef from which they came withwith the risks they constantly face or staying in my hotel they would choose the later. Now if I could only talk to the animals.

 

Very high end thoughts Les and yes all you say would indeed be real nice .....

 

Albert

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My largest montipora coral is bleaching. It is only that one and this is the third time this has happened. It seems after they grow huge, they get bored and start to bleach. I have no idea why and the rest of them seem fine. The last time this happened I had a piece that grew from fingernail size to about 10" round. Then in 2 days it turned white and croaked. It is happening again and I find it interesting. I wish I knew what was going through their head as to why they do this.
But it is what makes this hobby so much better than stamp collecting or trying to guess the phone numbers of Supermodels.

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That's interest Paul I have not heard of others will similar issues with Monti'so. I have seen large ones layered or scrolled. I wonder when they do that and as ultimately they create shade on the parts below and in doing so don't bleach.

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albertthiel

My largest montipora coral is bleaching. It is only that one and this is the third time this has happened. It seems after they grow huge, they get bored and start to bleach. I have no idea why and the rest of them seem fine. The last time this happened I had a piece that grew from fingernail size to about 10" round. Then in 2 days it turned white and croaked. It is happening again and I find it interesting. I wish I knew what was going through their head as to why they do this.

But it is what makes this hobby so much better than stamp collecting or trying to guess the phone numbers of Supermodels.

 

That is odd indeed Paul but since it is happening wonder what the cause could be ... maybe chemical warfare from some nearby coral as you point out. Could very well be

 

Albert

That's interest Paul I have not heard of others will similar issues with Monti'so. I have seen large ones layered or scrolled. I wonder when they do that and as ultimately they create shade on the parts below and in doing so don't bleach.

 

Yes indeed ..... odd

 

Albert

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Orangutran

Hey Albert (and gang), would you know why my 2 chromis will always hide when there are people (movement) in the room? Even when I feed them, they are a bit shy to come out completely to eat. When there is no one in the room, and I peak around the corner, I see them swimming around!

 

Other fishes are 2 clowns (as per usual) + neon goby + pink streaked wrasse

 

Thanks!

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danimal1211

 

Sometimes you just can't win.

 

It is pretty amazing to see the flying fish glide for as long as they can when out fishing. It is amazing that predation and millions of years created such an adaption. Most pelagic fish are extremely fast swimmers, my guess is under water the flying fish isn't as fast as it's predators and so through mutation they developed an "outside the box" solution to survive.

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albertthiel

It is pretty amazing to see the flying fish glide for as long as they can when out fishing. It is amazing that predation and millions of years created such an adaption. Most pelagic fish are extremely fast swimmers, my guess is under water the flying fish isn't as fast as it's predators and so through mutation they developed an "outside the box" solution to survive.

Ye indeed sometimes you really cannot

 

Albert

Hey Albert (and gang), would you know why my 2 chromis will always hide when there are people (movement) in the room? Even when I feed them, they are a bit shy to come out completely to eat. When there is no one in the room, and I peak around the corner, I see them swimming around!

 

Other fishes are 2 clowns (as per usual) + neon goby + pink streaked wrasse

 

Thanks!

Very odd indeed. Not sure why

 

Albert

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Hey Albert (and gang), would you know why my 2 chromis will always hide when there are people (movement) in the room? Even when I feed them, they are a bit shy to come out completely to eat. When there is no one in the room, and I peak around the corner, I see them swimming around!

 

Other fishes are 2 clowns (as per usual) + neon goby + pink streaked wrasse

 

Thanks!

 

 

The thing is when the room is a lot darker than the light in the tank then the fish can't see movement after a short distance to the tank. What most will see is their own reflection starring back at them. This will have different effects on different species, some might show off to what they see as an intruder, some might attack it, while some might be wary. When the room light is brighter than the tank then the fish can see movement outside the tank and so some might hide while others will think they are about to be fed as they become accustomed to movement resulting in feeding.

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