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THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD


ZephNYC

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What I find amazing about fish that spawn so regular and release so many eggs and thousands in their lifetime is that it only takes 2 of the eggs to hatch the fry to reach adulthood and spawn themselves to maintain the species. In some ways that's sad but of course the unlucky ones are all part of the food chain.

 

Indeed ++ on both statements Les ... only very few need to make it indeed and as you say the others become part of the food chain, a very necessary component too

 

Albert

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My friend took this in Key Largo. Notice all the fry. This is what makes up a large portion of food on a reef. These little guys are all over the place as all healthy fish spawn all the time. If you have paired fish in a suitable tank, and they are not spawning, they are not very healthy.

Fry_zps89b3dc30.jpg

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My friend took this in Key Largo. Notice all the fry. This is what makes up a large portion of food on a reef. These little guys are all over the place as all healthy fish spawn all the time. If you have paired fish in a suitable tank, and they are not spawning, they are not very healthy.

Fry_zps89b3dc30.jpg

 

Indeed Paul ... great food for the fish and corals on the reef and of course while many get consumed some will eventually make it and grow out .... as we both know

 

Thanks for a real great shot

 

Albert

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This all happened on water and I assume there is fish in the water so this post is "almost" about fish, but not quite. We did have some shrimp cocktail so it is also about invertabrates. Every year I take my wife and some of her friends on a nice boat ride and we come back in moonlight. This year I took them to the Statue of Liberty. It was one of the Lady's birthdays and she really enjoyed it. I have gone there on my boat many times but with the price of fuel now I can't take to many long trips. It takes almost an hour to get to Lady Liberty and the custom here is to blast "God Bless America" and drink some champagne. Which we did. 6 bottles actually.

They loved it.

You have to go under the Throgs Neck Bridge, the White Stone Bridge, the Queensboro Bridge, the Tri Boro Bridge, (now named the JFK Bridge) the Manhattan Bridge and the Brooklyn Bridge.

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A thought to ponder re skimmers and skimmate.

Most who use skimmesr will tell you that they wouldn't want to put the skimmate removed by their skimmer back into the aquarium right? Now if youhad never used a skimmer in your tank for a year or more then installed a skimmer the amount of skimmate collected would no doubt be less than if you had run a skimmer from day one. So why would that be? I can only assume the reason being much of the organics and proteins produced are recycled but by what, corals, bacteria? I am unaware of any studies undertaken on this perhaps you (or anybody else) know of any Albert? .

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This all happened on water and I assume there is fish in the water so this post is "almost" about fish, but not quite. We did have some shrimp cocktail so it is also about invertabrates. Every year I take my wife and some of her friends on a nice boat ride and we come back in moonlight. This year I took them to the Statue of Liberty. It was one of the Lady's birthdays and she really enjoyed it. I have gone there on my boat many times but with the price of fuel now I can't take to many long trips. It takes almost an hour to get to Lady Liberty and the custom here is to blast "God Bless America" and drink some champagne. Which we did. 6 bottles actually.

They loved it.

You have to go under the Throgs Neck Bridge, the White Stone Bridge, the Queensboro Bridge, the Tri Boro Bridge, (now named the JFK Bridge) the Manhattan Bridge and the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

 

 

Wow that is great Paul ... wish I could have been there ...

 

Looks like everyone had a great time or is having a great time for sure ...

 

Nice shots too

 

Albert

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A thought to ponder re skimmers and skimmate.

Most who use skimmesr will tell you that they wouldn't want to put the skimmate removed by their skimmer back into the aquarium right? Now if youhad never used a skimmer in your tank for a year or more then installed a skimmer the amount of skimmate collected would no doubt be less than if you had run a skimmer from day one. So why would that be? I can only assume the reason being much of the organics and proteins produced are recycled but by what, corals, bacteria? I am unaware of any studies undertaken on this perhaps you (or anybody else) know of any Albert? .

 

That is indeed a good thought to ponder Les but to be honest I have not seen any studies either on that topic.

 

It should however be obvious that a good deal of the organics have been recycled somehow (corals, bacteria) as if they were not the amount of DOC in a tank on which no skimmer was used for a long time would have become enormous, and since that does not seem to be the case, obviously they have been kept in check somehow and probably as you say by the life forms in the tank and by biological processes that continuously take place in our tanks.

 

Very interesting topic .. if I find anything on it I will for sure post it here

 

Albert

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I totally dis-agree with that link.

 

As soon as I hear people feeding flake food and garlic while waiting for a cleaner shrimp to eat the parasites I get fed up to here

(My hand is under my chin)

Fish should not get white spots or any other color spots. But if you feed flake food, they will get spots, polka dots, stripes and everything else. Healthy fish eating the correct food do not get sick. :closedeyes:

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Interesting, lets see what responses I get to this age old question of whitespot.

.

http://thenanoreef.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?22361-Whitespot

 

Well Les we both know and so do many others that not feeding your fish a proper diet of life foods and wholesome foods wii eventually lead to the fish ending up with a low immune system and contracting disease of several kinds, including marine ick ... Feed them only flake food (enhanced with whatever) only and they will get diseased ... that is my experience over the years and I know yours as well and many other readers too.

 

I think in addition maintaining a high O2 level in the tank e.g. by using an Oxydator, will also contribute to the fish not getting diseased given that a proper water quality is maintained.

 

Albert

 

I totally dis-agree with that link.

 

As soon as I hear people feeding flake food and garlic while waiting for a cleaner shrimp to eat the parasites I get fed up to here

(My hand is under my chin)

Fish should not get white spots or any other color spots. But if you feed flake food, they will get spots, polka dots, stripes and everything else. Healthy fish eating the correct food do not get sick. :closedeyes:

 

Indeed Paul ... I am all with you on that one ... (see my response to Les)

 

Albert

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While we're on the lines of disease, I may have gotten myself into more trouble than I am comfortable with. I recently introduced 3 blue chromis, one of which got a large white spot within the first day and showed signs of illness, hanging out in top corner of the tank,breathing heavily, and the next day I could see a hint of red in the white spot. Upon further investigation (googling chromis red spot) I happen upon uronema marinum.

 

Now if I did indeed introduce this disgusting little protozoa into the tank but my other fish are not showing signs of it, is it possible once infected chromis are removed I can live a disease free life in the tank as long as my other fishes immune systems are kept strong? I ask this because if I did introduce it, short of breaking the tank down and bleaching everything including the corals I am at a loss on how to move past this while still have fish in my tank. I may have resigned the tank to reef only with live rock.

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While we're on the lines of disease, I may have gotten myself into more trouble than I am comfortable with. I recently introduced 3 blue chromis, one of which got a large white spot within the first day and showed signs of illness, hanging out in top corner of the tank,breathing heavily, and the next day I could see a hint of red in the white spot. Upon further investigation (googling chromis red spot) I happen upon uronema marinum.

 

Now if I did indeed introduce this disgusting little protozoa into the tank but my other fish are not showing signs of it, is it possible once infected chromis are removed I can live a disease free life in the tank as long as my other fishes immune systems are kept strong? I ask this because if I did introduce it, short of breaking the tank down and bleaching everything including the corals I am at a loss on how to move past this while still have fish in my tank. I may have resigned the tank to reef only with live rock.

 

It is very difficult to give you a definitive answer to your question ... the sick fish definitely needs to come out, any other fish that show even mild signs of possible disease need to come out as well and then all you can do really IME is hope for the best that the other fish that are still in the tank do not get affected if as you say their immune system is strong.

 

Whether they will remain disease free I cannot tell you ... they may but then again they may not ...

 

Best would be to remove all the fish and treat them in a separate aquarium and leave the DT fallow for a good 60 days or so and after that put in one fish and see what happens. More than likely that time period should be enough for the tank to be fine again for more fish but you will have to test that with one fish and see if that fish develops any signs of disease or not.

 

If it does then obviously the 60 days was not long enough ... so to be on the safer side you may just want to leave the tank fallow for a longer period of time, perhaps as much as 90 days.

 

Albert

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It is very difficult to give you a definitive answer to your question ... the sick fish definitely needs to come out, any other fish that show even mild signs of possible disease need to come out as well and then all you can do really IME is hope for the best that the other fish that are still in the tank do not get affected if as you say their immune system is strong.

 

Whether they will remain disease free I cannot tell you ... they may but then again they may not ...

 

Best would be to remove all the fish and treat them in a separate aquarium and leave the DT fallow for a good 60 days or so and after that put in one fish and see what happens. More than likely that time period should be enough for the tank to be fine again for more fish but you will have to test that with one fish and see if that fish develops any signs of disease or not.

 

If it does then obviously the 60 days was not long enough ... so to be on the safer side you may just want to leave the tank fallow for a longer period of time, perhaps as much as 90 days.

 

Albert

 

Thanks for the advice, mistakes have been made and lessons learned at this point. The 2 other chromis are now showing signs of it, although still to quick to catch. Working on that today.

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Thanks for the advice, mistakes have been made and lessons learned at this point. The 2 other chromis are now showing signs of it, although still to quick to catch. Working on that today.

 

Sounds like a plan ... and yes they are fast and not easy to catch .. two nets work better than one usually, so you can chase the fishes with one net towards the other and hopefully into that one so you can remove the fish.

 

Hope it works out for you and that your other fish do not catch the disease as well ....

 

And yes we have have all made mistakes that is for sure ... and I guess that is part of how we learn to become better aquarium hobbyists.

 

Albert

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Thanks for the advice, mistakes have been made and lessons learned at this point. The 2 other chromis are now showing signs of it, although still to quick to catch. Working on that today.

 

UV light kills most living cells, if exposed long enough.

 

The Turbo Twist UV is like $95 with a ball valve, 1/2" tubing, and MJ400 youre down like $110.

 

If this protazoa has a water stage, it will kill it.

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What happened to the nano reef newsletter, haven't received one for months and months think it was about halfway through volume 2. Also there is nothing in the members area of the nano reef site

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What happened to the nano reef newsletter, haven't received one for months and months think it was about halfway through volume 2. Also there is nothing in the members area of the nano reef site

 

37 Newsletters have been published and those who have a printed coy were to receive 25 free ones but already received 37 of them.

 

The next one will be out in about a week ...

 

Each newsletter also had an insert requesting a contribution of your own choice for continuing to receive free issues of the Newsletter. Few have done so yet I continued to send out free Newsletters anyway.

 

Expect an email in about a week or so advising you that Volume 2 Issue 13 is ready for download.

 

Not sure about what you mean by there is nothing in the Members area of the site ... what is supposed to be there are the 25 Newsletters (well now 37 and soon 38)

 

Albert

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1:30 this morning I got up and had a thought. Maybe these tube worms that are all over the place also eat paracites. I have no idea, but my tank is never bothered by paracites even if I put ich infested fish in. I also don't have the equipment to see if this is true but it would be a great boon to this hobby if we could find a natural way of eradicating those little pests while accidently making the water healthier. My tank uses a reverse under gravel filter (yes there are such things) and the gravel is loaded with tiny tube worms. The algae trough is also filled with them so the water doesn't have a choice and must flow past millions of these feathery tentacles every day. I would imagine they would be able to remove paracites from the water. It is just a thought so don't hit me with all sorts of scientific theories from scientists who have never owned a fish tank or gone swimming.
I feed clams every day along with some of their associated clam juice and I am sure this helps promote the lives of these worms. They also act to clean the water of any particles. Every day I stir up the substrait a little with a baster looking thing which I am sure also feeds these guys (or girls).
These tube worms are never discussed but may be why older tanks don't have any problems with diseases, mini cycles, algae or bacterial blooms.
Maybe we don't give tube worms enough credit. It's just a thought.
References:
Me B)

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1:30 this morning I got up and had a thought. Maybe these tube worms that are all over the place also eat paracites. I have no idea, but my tank is never bothered by paracites even if I put ich infested fish in. I also don't have the equipment to see if this is true but it would be a great boon to this hobby if we could find a natural way of eradicating those little pests while accidently making the water healthier. My tank uses a reverse under gravel filter (yes there are such things) and the gravel is loaded with tiny tube worms. The algae trough is also filled with them so the water doesn't have a choice and must flow past millions of these feathery tentacles every day. I would imagine they would be able to remove paracites from the water. It is just a thought so don't hit me with all sorts of scientific theories from scientists who have never owned a fish tank or gone swimming.

I feed clams every day along with some of their associated clam juice and I am sure this helps promote the lives of these worms. They also act to clean the water of any particles. Every day I stir up the substrait a little with a baster looking thing which I am sure also feeds these guys (or girls).

These tube worms are never discussed but may be why older tanks don't have any problems with diseases, mini cycles, algae or bacterial blooms.

Maybe we don't give tube worms enough credit. It's just a thought.

References:

Me B)

 

I like that theory, something has to make use of protozoan in the water. I eyeballed a rock covered in mini feather dusters (are these the tube worms you have?) at the lfs the other day and thought it would make a great addition as I have had these flourish in previous systems. They also had a bunch of live mysis in a system that seem to breed readily in an aquarium and with my rock layout I am sure I could get a breeding population in my system. Being in a land locked location really limits what I can find to introduce to my system. Tyree offers sponge seeding packs for cryptic zones which my liverock has plenty of to support so I need to get on that aswell.

 

All that being said, on the up side of things I may have misdiagnosed the uronema although it doesn't explain their spots getting a red hue to them. The 2 fish I have right now I suspect have symptoms should by all accounts of cases I have read be dead by now but seem to be just fine activity wise with no heavy breathing and lethargy like the first one. I am really hopeful I am wrong in this case, haha.

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1:30 this morning I got up and had a thought. Maybe these tube worms that are all over the place also eat paracites. I have no idea, but my tank is never bothered by paracites even if I put ich infested fish in. I also don't have the equipment to see if this is true but it would be a great boon to this hobby if we could find a natural way of eradicating those little pests while accidently making the water healthier. My tank uses a reverse under gravel filter (yes there are such things) and the gravel is loaded with tiny tube worms. The algae trough is also filled with them so the water doesn't have a choice and must flow past millions of these feathery tentacles every day. I would imagine they would be able to remove paracites from the water. It is just a thought so don't hit me with all sorts of scientific theories from scientists who have never owned a fish tank or gone swimming.

I feed clams every day along with some of their associated clam juice and I am sure this helps promote the lives of these worms. They also act to clean the water of any particles. Every day I stir up the substrait a little with a baster looking thing which I am sure also feeds these guys (or girls).

These tube worms are never discussed but may be why older tanks don't have any problems with diseases, mini cycles, algae or bacterial blooms.

Maybe we don't give tube worms enough credit. It's just a thought.

References:

Me B)

 

Although I have not seen any studies on the matter Paul it is IMO obvious that they indeed feed on bacterioplankton and on phyto and zooplankton as well ... so your point is well taken

 

Albert

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I like that theory, something has to make use of protozoan in the water. I eyeballed a rock covered in mini feather dusters (are these the tube worms you have?) at the lfs the other day and thought it would make a great addition as I have had these flourish in previous systems. They also had a bunch of live mysis in a system that seem to breed readily in an aquarium and with my rock layout I am sure I could get a breeding population in my system. Being in a land locked location really limits what I can find to introduce to my system. Tyree offers sponge seeding packs for cryptic zones which my liverock has plenty of to support so I need to get on that aswell.

 

All that being said, on the up side of things I may have misdiagnosed the uronema although it doesn't explain their spots getting a red hue to them. The 2 fish I have right now I suspect have symptoms should by all accounts of cases I have read be dead by now but seem to be just fine activity wise with no heavy breathing and lethargy like the first one. I am really hopeful I am wrong in this case, haha.

 

Well I guess you'll have to wait and see what happens in the tank with those fish and I hope that you indeed misdiagnosed it and that they do survive and get well.

 

On the Protozoa and the copepods that is a totally different subject of course and since there are about 30 000 species of Protozoa (an older name for them) ... it is hard to say what is really going on .... The link below tell you more about them, and what the current scientific classification is etc ...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protozoa

 

Albert

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