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ZeoVit Flatworm Stop OR not so stop!


NanoTopia

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It has been recommended to me that ZeoVit Flatworm Stop is a good prophylactic treatment to ward off the impending Acropora Eating Flat Worm (AEFW). I do not have AEFW as far as I can tell from visual inspection but have heard they are on the increase with aquacultured corals being imported from various locations around the world. As my tank becomes increasingly populated with expensive SPS corals, I have been thinking more about preventative (prophylactic) ways to reduce my chances of getting AEFW in my tank.

 

I dip every coral that goes in my tank with TLF Revive but know that it will not be effective on AEFW eggs. Most of my corals are well incrusted now so removal to dip in the event of a AEFW infestation would be devastating in itself. Not something I would be happy to do. Some may call me paranoid, they may be right however, I have always been a strong advocate of prevention when it comes to health in general. So I apply my methodologies to my reef as well.

 

I have looked extensively online for any reviews regarding this product with no luck. This is a new product produced by Korallen-Zucht ZeoVit so reviews have not started popping up as of yet. The company does not list the products ingredients, which in itself a little concerning. I have not heard of any negative effects from dosing this product. This is what the company claims it does, from Thomas Pohl himself, taken from the ZeoVit web forum:

 

"Hi @all,

 

the product is not a medication. In my test we have no problem with any corals ore Fish but we have now the best corals we ever had. My Testing time now is more than 12 month to get the product ready and good for a shelf life of 12 month.

We have only a small Quantity now on stock of 150L, we wait the ingredients to work on a good stock, i think we can ship to every dealer in 3-4 weeks.

 

Here is some text from our page:

 

Product Description

 

Flatworm Stop

 

Right now we have an effective help against tissue eating flatworms on Acropora and for ailing SPS.

 

Flatworm Stop strengthens all kind of corals and reduces parasitical flatworms on Acropora corals at the same time. Very valuable ingredients are assimilated directly after dosage. In our tests also ailing small polyp stony corals recovered and rebuilt the basis as well as gained back the original coloration.

 

Dosage: 1 ml per 100 Liter tank water daily. Dose directly into the tank. For ailing corals dosage can be increased to double or triple,

 

About Overdosing: I dose the last 2 weeks in my Tank, Regina's Tank and in our large Reeftank daily 30ml once per day with very good results on corals.

In that time i dose the other products by half quantity than normal.

 

To the end a tip for all that have Flatworms. Please dose not brown organic Jod, take only a small quantity of Kaliumjodit to hold a good color on sps, it is the better way to get a free Flatworm Tank.

 

I hope now you know all a little more about that product.

 

 

Th.Pohl

__________________

www.Korallenzucht.de

"

 

 

So my objective here is to begin dosing ZeoVit Flatworm Stop as recommended by Thomas himself. As I mentioned before I see no signs of flatworms in my tank at all. I am dosing for preventative reasons only, to strengthen and increase the slime coat on my SPS. An increase in colour has been noted as well with this product but this is not the reason I am dosing it. Since I have no issue with flatworms, I sadly will not be able to report success or failure of this product, only any negative effects (if any) on my reef in general.

 

I realize that there are many here on NR that will think it silly to dose something into the tank for what seems no reason. I can only compare my actions to the reason I take probiotics and vitamins regularly for my own health, like my reef, I have a lot invested here. So I will pick up a bottle today and start dosing it on Sunday as recommended for the minimum 3 months.

 

Please let me know if you have any personal experience with this product.

 

This is Zeovits 30m tank of SPS:

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RayWhisperer

As you said, it's a new product. I have heard it is the only thing out effective against AEFW. I have no experience with it, and don't know anyone who does.

 

The idea of using it as a preventative seems fine. However, the idea of dosing it on a regular basis seems fishy to me, to say the least. Regardless of what you've experienced so far, and what the developers claim. There is no known long term exposure info to be had.

 

Considering your stock, I think a better method would be to quarantine any new SPS for an extended period, with regular treatments of flatworm stop. I think this would be better for your reef, and also your wallet.

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It's a fairly new product so there isn't much info regarding success or failure. Like you mentioned it increases the slime coating. I've fought aefw back in December and it really sucks. Took forever to get rid of them but as you do I dip all corals with Revive. Which I highly recommend as an aefw deturant. They lay their eggs on the base of the rock or any dead section of the acro colonies. So exces mucuss wouldn't help with the eggs. So be sure to use a flashlight and razor blade to cut away the eggs.

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Thanks guys for your input. The cost is $50 for a 250mL bottle. I would only need to dose 1mL/day so a bottle would last 250 days for me. That's .20 cents a day insurance on at least $1500 coral and counting. I can live with that. I will continue to dip everything that goes in my tank as I have always done and be on the lookout for any eggs on the corals I have recently added.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update: Two weeks in dosing flatworm stop prophylactically now, no negative effects on livestock to report. PE is the best it's ever been in my tank. So far so good.

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Glad to hear it's so far so good. But what do think this low dosage could possibly cause. Could it be possible that by dosaging low dosages at all times help any possible current aefw to get use to that low dosage and then adjust/adapt? Just like some people take a medicine and after a prolonged period of time they become resistant to the treatment and then have to take more extreme measures to fix the original problem. So that one flatworm might be able to be strong enough to get thru the ticker slime coat and only it survives. Then it multiples with most youngsters with this ability to beat the treatment.

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Glad to hear it's so far so good. But what do think this low dosage could possibly cause. Could it be possible that by dosaging low dosages at all times help any possible current aefw to get use to that low dosage and then adjust/adapt? Just like some people take a medicine and after a prolonged period of time they become resistant to the treatment and then have to take more extreme measures to fix the original problem. So that one flatworm might be able to be strong enough to get thru the ticker slime coat and only it survives. Then it multiples with most youngsters with this ability to beat the treatment.

 

 

I understand what you are suggesting, something along the lines of the flatworm building up a resistance to the product overtime. That might be true for a medication or antibiotic more so, not sure if the AEFW could adapt to the slime coat over time. This product, from what I have read and understand is not a medication that affects the flatworm at all, rather it strengthens the coral tissue and it's ability to create a slime coat. The flatworm simply finds this undesirable and cannot feed on the tissue. Take the food source away and the flatworms eventually die.

 

Dosing prophylactic allows your corals to develop this undesirable slime coat, so if any flatworms were to be introduced to your tank, they would simply starve to death. It takes 90 days of dosing the product as directed by Zeovit (1mL per 25 gallons, per day) for the coral to fully develop this undesirable tissue. If you had a AEFW's in your system, after 90 days of dosing, theoretically your flatworms should start to die off as they starve. Any eggs that hatch would also die soon after.

 

There are many people trying this product worldwide, some report no change after almost 90 days of dosing as recommended. Some say that can see a decline in AEFW's. Thomas Pohl insists it will work but you must be patient. At this point, being a new product, no one knows for sure.

 

As long as the product is not harming my livestock I am willing to dose this product as a preventative measure, just in case AEFW or eggs enter my system. No guarantee on this product at this point, to early to tell if it is working on tanks that are affected with AEFW's. I suspect we will know in the next couple of months whether this is snake oil or the real thing. Thomas has his reputation riding on this product, his company will take a hit if this product does not do what it promises.

 

Just as a side note, Zeovit does not market this product to be dosed where no AEFW exist. It is marketed as a means to eradicate existing AEFW, sometime after dosing for 90 days. I am dosing this product by suggestion from a coral cultivator/retailer that has been dosing for over a month as a means of protecting his livestock in the event the AEFW was introduced.

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Sounds like an interesting product. Keep us updated

 

I will however, in my case the only thing I could report is that I have AEFW's present in my system, that would mean the product is not effective when dosed as a prophylactic treatment. The true testers are the people using the product that have a current infestation of AEFW's. I'm keeping my ears open on their outcomes as well. If they find it is not effective at eradicating the worm, I would see no point to dose prophylacticly either.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:

 

I have posted the question on ZeoVit.com forum thread"Flatworm Stop ?!" in hopes Thomas Pohl will respond with his thoughts. This was more than a week ago now, looking forward to his thoughts on dosing FWS in a non-AEFW infected tank. Post below.

 

 

Dear Thomas Pohl,

 

I have no AEFW's but I am dosing FWS prophylactic in my tank (1mL per 25 gallons). Do you have any recommendations regarding this practice. My methodology here is to prevent possible future AEFW infestation. I know you do not market FWS for use in this manor but have you any thoughts on this?

 

I am 18 days into dosing, I also dose K and keep levels at 400ppm. My total water volume is 23 gallons. I use bio-pellets and skim heavily.

 

Thank you,

 

I am one month into dosing FWS and I notice some acropora tissue looking thicker. Still colourful (not browning) just deeper colour. I have a blue stag that is turning slightly purple on the tips and base. No ill effects to the tank at all. It is hard to photograph these subtle changes but I wish I could. I will report Thomas Pohl's response when/if it occurs.

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albertthiel
Update:

 

I have posted the question on ZeoVit.com forum thread"Flatworm Stop ?!" in hopes Thomas Pohl will respond with his thoughts. This was more than a week ago now, looking forward to his thoughts on dosing FWS in a non-AEFW infected tank. Post below.

 

 

Dear Thomas Pohl,

 

I have no AEFW's but I am dosing FWS prophylactic in my tank (1mL per 25 gallons). Do you have any recommendations regarding this practice. My methodology here is to prevent possible future AEFW infestation. I know you do not market FWS for use in this manor but have you any thoughts on this?

 

I am 18 days into dosing, I also dose K and keep levels at 400ppm. My total water volume is 23 gallons. I use bio-pellets and skim heavily.

 

Thank you,

 

I am one month into dosing FWS and I notice some acropora tissue looking thicker. Still colourful (not browning) just deeper colour. I have a blue stag that is turning slightly purple on the tips and base. No ill effects to the tank at all. It is hard to photograph these subtle changes but I wish I could. I will report Thomas Pohl's response when/if it occurs.

 

Interesting ... wonder what it is in the product that causes the corals to develop a thicker slime coating and wonder whether that is good or not so good ... and of course what the long term effect will be as what will this thicker slime layer do to nutrient uptake etc ....

 

I guess we'll have to wait till we see more feedback from hobbyists who have used it for a longer period of time

 

Albert

--------------------------------------------

You can ask me questions on my Albert Thiel Thread

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  • 3 weeks later...

Albert,

 

Thomas Pohl claims he has been using it on his corals for a year now with no ill effects. Of course that has to be taken lightly as he is the manufacturer of the product. I have however, heard from a user that the product is finally starting to rid his tank of AEFW after dosing over two months. He had initially given up on the product after only using it for a month or so. Now he is praising it as he watches his reef come back to life. Time will tell, if more positive reports start to surface this product may really take off.

 

I am not seeing any drastic changes or improvements in my corals, but there are some improvements I can see, mainly in overall health, PE, and coloration. The thing to note with this product, and is stressed by Thomas, is that this is not a fast fix to a AEFW problem, it takes 3 months plus to see results. In that period of time, if you have AEFW's, a lot of damage could still occur to corals.

 

Albert, is a slime coat present on the surface of coral tissue all the time or is slime produced when the coral senses an intruder on it's tissue?

 

Could this product simply be increasing the corals ability to produce more slime when needed, thus being more effective in deterring intruders/pests. If coral tissue is strengthened (what ever that might imply) would it not be beneficial in general for the corals health? The nutrient upload theory is worth looking into, if impeded over time, a visible decline in health would be evident within several months I would think.

 

Zeovit is notorious for being vague when it comes to their products ingredients , like secret elixirs from the 1800's that only have a purpose for use and no other details. Take two drops and call me in the morning marketing, yet many people swear by the products. I will admit dosing something in my tank, not knowing exactly what it is, makes me a wee bit nervous. I am keeping a close eye on my corals and livestock, everything seems happy ATM.

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albertthiel
Albert,

 

Thomas Pohl claims he has been using it on his corals for a year now with no ill effects. Of course that has to be taken lightly as he is the manufacturer of the product. I have however, heard from a user that the product is finally starting to rid his tank of AEFW after dosing over two months. He had initially given up on the product after only using it for a month or so. Now he is praising it as he watches his reef come back to life. Time will tell, if more positive reports start to surface this product may really take off.

 

I am not seeing any drastic changes or improvements in my corals, but there are some improvements I can see, mainly in overall health, PE, and coloration. The thing to note with this product, and is stressed by Thomas, is that this is not a fast fix to a AEFW problem, it takes 3 months plus to see results. In that period of time, if you have AEFW's, a lot of damage could still occur to corals.

 

Albert, is a slime coat present on the surface of coral tissue all the time or is slime produced when the coral senses an intruder on it's tissue?

 

Could this product simply be increasing the corals ability to produce more slime when needed, thus being more effective in deterring intruders/pests. If coral tissue is strengthened (what ever that might imply) would it not be beneficial in general for the corals health? The nutrient upload theory is worth looking into, if impeded over time, a visible decline in health would be evident within several months I would think.

 

Zeovit is notorious for being vague when it comes to their products ingredients , like secret elixirs from the 1800's that only have a purpose for use and no other details. Take two drops and call me in the morning marketing, yet many people swear by the products. I will admit dosing something in my tank, not knowing exactly what it is, makes me a wee bit nervous. I am keeping a close eye on my corals and livestock, everything seems happy ATM.

With regard to the product all I can say is why would it take so long to get rid of Acropara eating flatworms?

 

And if the ingredients are not listed on the bottle that makes it even more difficult to come up with an answer. On top of that I believe that in the US manufacturers need to list what the main active ingredient is on their labels so if that is not done .. it just make me wonder what is in there

 

Levamisole treatment can be used to active a much faster result ... and here is a link to an explanation on it:

 

http://www.leonardosreef.com/2012/06/guide-to-aefw/

 

On the slime: yes it could be that the product makes the SPS produce more slime to fight off the flatworms and that if they cannot feed they eventually die off and that could explain why it takes so long (as it may take that amount of time for the flatworms to all die)

 

Not sure though as mystery products are not what I like to deal with as I am sure you understand but like you say time will tell so if you are using it make sure you watch what goes on and if you are not satisfied with the result try another method for getting rid of them ...

 

Hope this sort of helps ...

 

Albert

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  • 2 months later...

Update: :(

 

Just discovered AEFW egg masses on my green A.prostrata colony today. I noticed it was lightening and STN from the bottom. I removed the coral permanently from my tank.

 

I am checking other colonies for eggs ATM but do not see eggs... promising.

 

Seems the Zeovit Faltworm stop is not as effective as advertised but may be saving some other colonies unknowingly, time will tell. I had been dosing daily FWS since May of this year. I think I know where they may have come from (particular LFS) but will never know for sure.

 

I am not a happy camper today :(

post-72999-1347928466_thumb.jpg

post-72999-1347928497_thumb.jpg

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Update: :(

 

Just discovered AEFW egg masses on my green A.prostrata colony today. I noticed it was lightening and STN from the bottom. I removed the coral permanently from my tank.

 

I am checking other colonies for eggs ATM but do not see eggs... promising.

 

Seems the Zeovit Faltworm stop is not as effective as advertised but may be saving some other colonies unknowingly, time will tell. I had been dosing daily FWS since May of this year. I think I know where they may have come from (particular LFS) but will never know for sure.

 

I am not a happy camper today :(

 

 

Dam I was curious how it was working. Sorry to hear about the aefw. I had them last December and it took me 3 months of dipping, searching, scaping and swearing. But finally I beat them.

How are the rest of the acros doing? They tend to lay their eggs in the same spot which does help destroying their "nesting" spot.

 

Still sorry to hear. Out of all the acro eating bugs I've had the aefw were ridiculous annoying. I've had acro eating nudi's, acro eating pyramid snails and aefw. They all suck. <_<

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Dam I was curious how it was working. Sorry to hear about the aefw. I had them last December and it took me 3 months of dipping, searching, scaping and swearing. But finally I beat them.

How are the rest of the acros doing? They tend to lay their eggs in the same spot which does help destroying their "nesting" spot.

 

Still sorry to hear. Out of all the acro eating bugs I've had the aefw were ridiculous annoying. I've had acro eating nudi's, acro eating pyramid snails and aefw. They all suck. <_<

 

I'm just hoping I don't loose all the Acros, I have a couple of Monti's, birds and some LPS which should not be affected. I just blew a couple off a A. millepora that has been light in colour for a while now. Strange with this one, no eggs and no STN or bite marks, but tissue was very thin. I did see them with my own eyes though as they came off when I blew with turkey baster, dam.

 

Here's the funny (not so funny) part, I was just at a LFS I have bought quite a bit of stuff from in the last 6-8 months, but none in over a month. Went in to see what they had for SPS and saw there tank wiped out basically from AEFW. They lost over $4000 in frags and colonies. They said it came from their supplier in SoCal.

 

Well all I have to say is, it looks like AEFW is spreading like a plague now in North America. Europe got it a while back, they think from aquaculture in Indonesia. Gone are the days when a simple dip would do, I think we are going to have to QT SPS or a couple of months. That means, in order to keep Acros safely we are going to have to have two SPS tanks. That increases the cost of this hobby quite a bit. Acropora may fall out of popularity for a while. I don't think I can do it right now. I just take my losses, however much they be, and move on.

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I'm just hoping I don't loose all the Acros, I have a couple of Monti's, birds and some LPS which should not be affected. I just blew a couple off a A. millepora that has been light in colour for a while now. Strange with this one, no eggs and no STN or bite marks, but tissue was very thin. I did see them with my own eyes though as they came off when I blew with turkey baster, dam.

 

Here's the funny (not so funny) part, I was just at a LFS I have bought quite a bit of stuff from in the last 6-8 months, but none in over a month. Went in to see what they had for SPS and saw there tank wiped out basically from AEFW. They lost over $4000 in frags and colonies. They said it came from their supplier in SoCal.

 

Well all I have to say is, it looks like AEFW is spreading like a plague now in North America. Europe got it a while back, they think from aquaculture in Indonesia. Gone are the days when a simple dip would do, I think we are going to have to QT SPS or a couple of months. That means, in order to keep Acros safely we are going to have to have two SPS tanks. That increases the cost of this hobby quite a bit. Acropora may fall out of popularity for a while. I don't think I can do it right now. I just take my losses, however much they be, and move on.

 

Ya there has a tons of hits here in central Florida. A lot of stores have reduced their acro collections. It seems some people are a tad scared to take then acro leap.

 

Your bad, lol laughing at their loss. :P JK

But nothing you can after the swearing but laugh. I did.

 

From my experience they always go for the milli's first. They don't have bite marks. The milli just fades and slowly looses polyp extension. It took 2 months before I realized that I aefw. I thought something was wrong with my milli's, chemistry wise but it was the beginning of the infestation. No bites or stn or Rtn or even white spots on the acro skin.

 

Anyway, I know you can beat them! Cause if your like me "acro junkie" you need to have your sps fix. :lol:

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Was just on your tank thread nano.. I was like.. wow what a nice tank.. then AEFW.. ohnoes.. I've noticed one of my milli's has a little stn at the bottom. I'll have to go in for a closer inspection.

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Was just on your tank thread nano.. I was like.. wow what a nice tank.. then AEFW.. ohnoes.. I've noticed one of my milli's has a little stn at the bottom. I'll have to go in for a closer inspection.

 

I think AEFW are becoming epidemic in North America. There just so dam hard to see, in fact you can't see them, only the trail of evidence they leave behind, by then it's sometimes too late. If you see eggs, it too late. Check your acros tonight!

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Noob comment here:

 

Sounds like the Zeovit product didn't do jack squat. My first inclination when reading this thread was how would you know if it was working? If you never got any AEFW, was it the product or did you never introduce any? Now you know that you introduced some, and the product did not work as advertised.

 

Hope you clear out the problem!

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Noob comment here:

 

Sounds like the Zeovit product didn't do jack squat. My first inclination when reading this thread was how would you know if it was working? If you never got any AEFW, was it the product or did you never introduce any? Now you know that you introduced some, and the product did not work as advertised.

 

Hope you clear out the problem!

 

Thanks Rollermonkey,

 

I wouldn't say it did jack squat, I would however say that it didn't do as the name of the product suggests (Flatworm Stop). You take vitamin C to keep up your resistance to viruses and overall health, yet you still get sick occasionally, does that mean the vitamin C is useless? Not really, it may help your overall health but it doesn't prevent all illness. I feel this product is the same, it improves the health of acropora tissue, but does not make it resistant to AEFW.

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The name "Flatworm Stop" is a bit misleading IMO. If I marketed a product and called it "Common Cold Stop", I would expect that it would stop me from getting a cold or stop a cold instantly. The product should have been called "Acropora Tissue Strengthener" , but a name like that would not sell the product.

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well i dont see any egg masses that i can really pinpoint.. nothing came off my hawkins or slimer but something suspect came off the milli.. it's too damn small to tell really if it's a flatworm or not. I'll have to continue to monitor.

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I think AEFW are becoming epidemic in North America. There just so dam hard to see, in fact you can't see them, only the trail of evidence they leave behind, by then it's sometimes too late. If you see eggs, it too late. Check your acros tonight!

 

Eric Borneman kept a thread on coral diseases, it has since been closed so there are no new posts but there are plenty of older ones that deal with all sorts of coral diseases :

 

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum9-1.aspx

 

and another good one is:

 

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/coraldisease.html

 

Albert

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